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Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2015 19:30:34 GMT -5
We were predicted to win about 86-87 games and we're on pace to win 70 which will probably go down with not caring about winning anymore. I have no idea how the projections can be so different than the results for two years. There is more to this than just picking the right players. So you want an explanation for this systemic failure two seasons in a row. But then how can we account for hugely overperforming in 2013? I can't. JH sold his soul to the devil and now we pay for it?
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jul 30, 2015 19:31:36 GMT -5
We were predicted to win about 86-87 games and we're on pace to win 70 which will probably go down with not caring about winning anymore. I have no idea how the projections can be so different than the results for two years. There is more to this than just picking the right players. Let's start with the "you don't need an ace" philosophy and work our way up. we had a guy pitching like an ace for the first part of both 2014 and 2015 and we were terrible even before Lester got traded and Buchholz got hurt. Those guys pitched better than anyone did in 2013. There's a problem, and that's not it.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 30, 2015 19:44:10 GMT -5
Just one observation on Sandoval...
Part of the reasoning for getting him was because of his consistently clutch play in the post season … I sure hope that wasn't part of the reasoning.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 30, 2015 19:46:20 GMT -5
It is truly amazing how many ridiculous fundamental mistakes we have made this year.
How can anyone not put these constant ridiculous things like running into outs on the manager?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 30, 2015 19:50:17 GMT -5
It is truly amazing how many ridiculous fundamental mistakes we have made this year. How can anyone not put these constant ridiculous things like running into outs on the manager? Bad baserunning is on the coaching stafff at every leve. You may have an outlier knucklehead baserunner - who should learn his lesson on the basepaths early in the season and in the clubhouse right after that - but not a whole team of them.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 30, 2015 19:52:53 GMT -5
It is truly amazing how many ridiculous fundamental mistakes we have made this year. How can anyone not put these constant ridiculous things like running into outs on the manager? Bad baserunning is on the coaching stafff at every. You may have an outlier knucklehead baserunner - who should learn his lesson on the basepaths early in the season and in the clubhouse right after that - but not a whole team of them. yep Bogey was watching the coach all the way there wasn't he...
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Post by libertine on Jul 30, 2015 19:53:44 GMT -5
Just one observation on Sandoval...
Part of the reasoning for getting him was because of his consistently clutch play in the post season … I sure hope that wasn't part of the reasoning. It sure was. Might not have been the main reason but I heard it more than once after the signing/in spring training. Along with him being a good clubhouse guy/team leader type. I wasn't a big fan of the signing but was hoping/expecting that he would be an upgrade at 3B. I have been completely underwhelmed by his play. But then again if we somehow ended up with Donaldson it wouldn't have made one bit of difference because of our horrible pitching this season...
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 30, 2015 19:54:14 GMT -5
I thought the previous two pages or so were a bit too depressed, there's plenty of reason to be excited for the future after all. Then I remembered there's a game on and we're going with a knuckleballer against Chris Sale. I now need a hug.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 30, 2015 19:59:20 GMT -5
Let's start with the "you don't need an ace" philosophy and work our way up. we had a guy pitching like an ace for the first part of both 2014 and 2015 and we were terrible even before Lester got traded and Buchholz got hurt. Those guys pitched better than anyone did in 2013. There's a problem, and that's not it. Lester pitched better in 2013 (we won) than 2014 and Buchholz last 6 or 7 starts don;t constitute a 1/2 season (let me guess....somebody is going to show me his xFIP). That's fine. Keep signing 90 mph contact guys, who profile as command/groundball pitchers, and we'll see how much the team improves.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 30, 2015 19:59:07 GMT -5
It truly is absurd how they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
I watching the ridiculous stuff like that over and over again, I have no doubt that performance all around the board WILL improve when John Farrell is relieved of his duties. Hopefully they are smart enough to wait until this year ends though.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 30, 2015 19:59:34 GMT -5
Machi and Aro added, Nava DFA'd, Layne optioned I'm pretty disappointed that they DFAed Nava rather than, say, optioned Rutledge or one of Bradley/Castillo or DFAed Breslow (I don't think they needed the 40-man spot, did they?). Nava has had a terrible year, but has a decent track record and cheap years of team control ahead of him. I suppose it's always possible that they pull him back off waivers (e.g., if De Aza gets traded, which would open up a roster spot) or trades him before he goes on waivers, but why take the risk? Here's my crazy idea on that: they have at least one trade on the table for Nava and the other team(s), who has a very low waiver claim spot, is being wishy-washy so DFAing him is a way of forcing the issue. That's probably more benefit of the doubt than they deserve but it probably makes the most sense.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Jul 30, 2015 20:00:12 GMT -5
we had a guy pitching like an ace for the first part of both 2014 and 2015 and we were terrible even before Lester got traded and Buchholz got hurt. Those guys pitched better than anyone did in 2013. There's a problem, and that's not it. Lester pitched better in 2013 (we won) than 2014 and Buchholz last 6 or 7 starts don;t constitute a 1/2 season (let me guess....somebody is going to show me his xFIP). That's fine. Keep signing 90 mph contact guys, who profile as command/groundball pitchers, and we'll see how much the team improves. lol Lester pitched far better in 2014 than 2013.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 30, 2015 20:02:27 GMT -5
Lester pitched better in 2013 (we won) than 2014 and Buchholz last 6 or 7 starts don;t constitute a 1/2 season (let me guess....somebody is going to show me his xFIP). That's fine. Keep signing 90 mph contact guys, who profile as command/groundball pitchers, and we'll see how much the team improves. lol Lester pitched far better in 2014 than 2013. Your right. He pitched like **** in the postseason, not an ace at all.
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Post by huskies15 on Jul 30, 2015 20:05:34 GMT -5
lol Lester pitched far better in 2014 than 2013. Your right. He pitched like **** in the postseason, not an ace at all. I am struggling to find your point here. But Lester dominated in the postseason in 2013, and then had his best year of his career last year in 2014.
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Post by huskies15 on Jul 30, 2015 20:08:55 GMT -5
I also agree that the amount of bad baserunning and mental mistakes in the field is egregious. It is absolutely the kind of thing that gets pinned on the coaching staff, and if the FO has any smarts they would recognize this.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 30, 2015 20:11:01 GMT -5
Lol this is truly unbelievable.
Seriously, I'd eat every penny of Sandoval's contract to dump his ***. Ugh, what a joke.
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Post by huskies15 on Jul 30, 2015 20:11:38 GMT -5
What Sandoval just did encapsulates his entire year. Swing at a pitch that also hits him in the wrist. It looked like he decided to swing before the ball left the hand.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 30, 2015 20:17:17 GMT -5
Your right. He pitched like **** in the postseason, not an ace at all. I am struggling to find your point here. But Lester dominated in the postseason in 2013, and then had his best year of his career last year in 2014. My point was that the philosophy of not having an ace is not a good thing and I'd rather have a different profile of pitcher on our staff. It's not an accident that that point was then rejected by the holier-than-thou community that sees such opinions as trivial. It was then degraded into 1/2 year sample size with the purpose of calling me stupid for believing that. It happens alot around here.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 30, 2015 20:26:07 GMT -5
I sure hope that wasn't part of the reasoning. It sure was. Might not have been the main reason but I heard it more than once after the signing/in spring training. Along with him being a good clubhouse guy/team leader type. I wasn't a big fan of the signing but was hoping/expecting that he would be an upgrade at 3B. I have been completely underwhelmed by his play. But then again if we somehow ended up with Donaldson it wouldn't have made one bit of difference because of our horrible pitching this season…
Management often praises the team's players, particularly new ones. The media and fandom, mostly, like Winners and WS Performers. Put those two articles together and it's not surprising you caught some sound bites or read some quotes. I seriously doubt this FO gave any weight to the results of 167 PA's spread over 39 games.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 30, 2015 20:28:34 GMT -5
Bogaerts unlike some, clearly learns from his mistakes.
BTW, when his power returns, this kid is gonna be amazing.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 30, 2015 20:29:11 GMT -5
... I'd eat every penny of Sandoval's contract to dump his *** … Done. Let's make a visit to your bank tomorrow morning.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2015 20:37:12 GMT -5
Sale is an embarrassment to the sport.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 30, 2015 20:37:56 GMT -5
A lead after 5 — what now?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2015 20:45:29 GMT -5
A lead after 5 — what now? Well Breslow probably isn't available...
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 30, 2015 20:46:06 GMT -5
Sale is an embarrassment to the sport. Yep. The White Sox should probably trade him.
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