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Update: Red Sox sign Napoli for one year, $5m
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Post by jmei on Dec 18, 2012 17:57:22 GMT -5
Oops-- thought I included Morales' big season, but forgot he missed a whole year with that injury. Even if you include it, though, the two look about even over that time period, but Napoli also had that 2011 breakout year.
Napoli's reaching the majors later and playing fewer games is solely because he came up as a catcher. Napoli has faced 27.7% left-handed pitchers over his career, which is basically identical to the major league average of 26.7%-- he wasn't really platooned much, and his splits aren't extreme at all (.390 wOBA versus lefties, .364 versus righties).
All things equal, I think they're comparable players on the field (I give a slight edge to Napoli, but I've had a man-crush on him for years so I'll discount that). Morales is younger and plays better defense, but Napoli has shown consistently better offensive ability, even taking into account Morales' ability to switch-hit.
The big difference is contract: Napoli is signed to a reasonable contract (3/$39m) and wouldn't require the loss of a draft pick, while Morales requires a trade return and is only under team control for one year (albeit at a cheap salary-- MLBTR projects $4.8m). Napoli's contract situation fits well into the organizational philosophy of "see what happens, but don't break the bank", while Morales is either going to be one-and-done or require a big extension. Neither of those outcomes fits into the Red Sox' in-between strategy-- you either gave up significant assets for a one-year rental (and I think it will require someone in the Brentz/Cecchini/Swihart/Owens tier) or you did that AND then signed a second-tier 1B to a big contract.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 19, 2012 8:43:15 GMT -5
Uh, Morales was a CUBAN DEFECTOR. His "minor league" career started when he was 16. He also played the equivalent of AA/AAA for 3 seasons playing for Serie Nacional. Beyond that, he was essentially part time until 2009.
And, Napoli only starting a high of 140 games in 2010. He was a primary catcher! I don't understand how people can reasonably bring this up. Play him primarily at 1B and he'll start 150 games.
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Post by remember04 on Dec 19, 2012 13:14:48 GMT -5
Uh, Morales was a CUBAN DEFECTOR. His "minor league" career started when he was 16. He also played the equivalent of AA/AAA for 3 seasons playing for Serie Nacional. Beyond that, he was essentially part time until 2009. And, Napoli only starting a high of 140 games in 2010. He was a primary catcher! I don't understand how people can reasonably bring this up. Play him primarily at 1B and he'll start 150 games. And take into account Scoscia had a man crush on Mathis over Napoli and at least until he left LA he'd get less starts for that too. Also what jmei said above.
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Post by paullee on Dec 20, 2012 0:40:48 GMT -5
There is something wrong with Napoli, otherwise the red sox would have made it official already. Morales had a good year versus right handed pitching. He should be fully recovered from that freak injury. I believe that if Morales would not been injured Pujols or Hamilton would not be necessary. Morales would be established as a great hitter. But now he's available for a trade and if costs the red sox any one of the Brentz/Cecchini/Swihart/Owens tier then so be it. Worse case scenario is we get a good year from Morales he is too expensive to keep and we get a high draft pick as compensation. By the way what was Napoli’s batting avg. last year?
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 20, 2012 0:46:23 GMT -5
There is something wrong with Napoli, otherwise the red sox would have made it official already. Morales had a good year versus right handed pitching. He should be fully recovered from that freak injury. I believe that if Morales would not been injured Pujols or Hamilton would not be necessary. Morales would be established as a great hitter. But now he's available for a trade and if costs the red sox any one of the Brentz/Cecchini/Swihart/Owens tier then so be it. Worse case scenario is we get a good year from Morales he is too expensive to keep and we get a high draft pick as compensation. By the way what was Napoli’s batting avg. last year? for the 20th time.. Drew's contract took 40+ days to announce....
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 20, 2012 2:38:40 GMT -5
There is something wrong with Napoli, otherwise the red sox would have made it official already. Morales had a good year versus right handed pitching. He should be fully recovered from that freak injury. I believe that if Morales would not been injured Pujols or Hamilton would not be necessary. Morales would be established as a great hitter. But now he's available for a trade and if costs the red sox any one of the Brentz/Cecchini/Swihart/Owens tier then so be it. Worse case scenario is we get a good year from Morales he is too expensive to keep and we get a high draft pick as compensation. By the way what was Napoli�s batting avg. last year? Nope. Nope.
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Post by honkbal on Dec 20, 2012 8:35:05 GMT -5
Honestly, at this point, the Sox saying nothing about the Napoli situation just reinforces to me the idea that they will eventually get something done.
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Post by Matt Huegel on Dec 20, 2012 12:06:17 GMT -5
It's definitely not at the point where the deal is in real jeopardy yet. If it were, we would begin to hear leaks about him backing out and beginning negotiations with other teams again. Every day that goes by that Napoli has "agreed to terms" with the Red Sox, as has been reported, is another day other teams that were involved in bidding for him and need a first baseman/catcher are working on filling their hole elsewhere. Sure, maybe Texas would swoop in if this agreement fell apart, but it would be a big risk for Napoli to keep waiting without action if he and his agent didn't have confidence that this deal with the Red Sox will get done. And yes, JD Drew's wait was 52 days (not sure if this link was posted earlier): bit.ly/VLKZwi
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Post by tjb21 on Dec 20, 2012 13:56:21 GMT -5
There is something wrong with Napoli, otherwise the red sox would have made it official already. Morales had a good year versus right handed pitching. He should be fully recovered from that freak injury. I believe that if Morales would not been injured Pujols or Hamilton would not be necessary. Morales would be established as a great hitter. But now he's available for a trade and if costs the red sox any one of the Brentz/Cecchini/Swihart/Owens tier then so be it. Worse case scenario is we get a good year from Morales he is too expensive to keep and we get a high draft pick as compensation. By the way what was Napoli’s batting avg. last year? I'm trying to figure out why you're picking this stat alone, to judge a player.
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Post by paullee on Dec 20, 2012 22:24:24 GMT -5
Boston's history of acquiring players whose physicals required reworking their contract Lackey and JD Drew. We really want another player of that caliber?
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 20, 2012 22:26:34 GMT -5
Boston's history of acquiring players whose physicals required reworking their contract Lackey and JD Drew. We really want another player of that caliber? If Napoli is half as good as JD Drew....I'll be ecstatic. JD Drew wasn't liked around here, but he was a damn good player. I don't get how people still don't see that.
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Post by paullee on Dec 20, 2012 23:23:56 GMT -5
JD Drew averaged 120 games played over the 5 years he played for the Red Sox. Thats a terrible average. Napoli is more of the same.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 21, 2012 1:02:03 GMT -5
JD Drew averaged 120 games played over the 5 years he played for the Red Sox. Thats a terrible average. Napoli is more of the same. That depends on what your looking for, right? Because when it came to performance, Drew was worth just about every penny the Sox shelled out for him. They weren't under any illusions from the beginning. The sheath on Drew's spine had been unravelling since he tore it in St. Louis. That's also where the herniated disk erupted, the one that forced him out in 2008 - no surprise since there was nothing to support it. From what I've been able to gather, that combination is unbelievably painful. He still played hard, never complained, and helped win a championship for the team. Just as totheheights points out, the Sox would love to get that sort or performance out of Napoli. By his last year, everyone knew he was through, including him. If you take that year out of there, and the 109 games he played before the herniated disk shelved him, then he averaged nearly 140 games over the other three years. And over those first four years, his line for the Sox puts the current crop of outfielders to shame. If he does get a chance for a full time job at first with the Sox, I'd bet Napoli is worth his money also. Especially if he's "more of the same" as Drew.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 21, 2012 2:52:31 GMT -5
In his time here Drew hit .264/.370/.455 with a 114 OPS+ while playing some of the best defense we have seen in RF here in Boston in a LONG time.
Give me a .825 OPS and All-Star caliber play from Napoli and I will want him back for a 4th year at $13M.
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Post by jmei on Dec 21, 2012 11:01:22 GMT -5
Rosenthal on Napoli ( link): Napoli, sources say, has a problem with one of his hips – a problem that led the Seattle Mariners to back off their pursuit of him, as reported by Jim Duquette of MLB Network Radio and confirmed by a source, and also may have concerned his previous team, the Texas Rangers.
The Red Sox, in the words of general manager Ben Cherington, are “working through some issues” in trying to finalize Napoli’s deal. As best as anyone can tell, that means that problems surfaced during Napoli’s physical, and the Red Sox are trying to rework his contract.
[...]
As it turned out, Drew’s right shoulder never was a problem, and the Sox executed all five years of his contract. Napoli’s hip, though, could be a different story. One rival agent asks: If Napoli’s condition is serious – say, similar to Alex Rodriguez’s – why would the Sox risk even going through with his contract?
The Sox apparently do not think Napoli’s condition is that serious; otherwise, they probably would have backed out by now. The more pertinent question is what Napoli’s revised deal will look like: Will it simply include protective language, as Drew’s did, or will the term be reduced to two years or even one?
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Dec 21, 2012 11:11:35 GMT -5
I'd back out of the deal if they found a hip injury. Not worth the trouble especially if he can't stay healthy.
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Post by remember04 on Dec 21, 2012 14:58:28 GMT -5
This would explain why Texas didn't make a qualifying offer. Personally I'd like to see the deal shortened by a year or two.
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Post by rangoon82 on Dec 21, 2012 16:42:15 GMT -5
What about the Sox just negotiating the cost of an insurance policy into the cost of his contract?
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 21, 2012 17:51:15 GMT -5
This is serious because I think in the Rosenthal piece I read a portion about the union and they said they agree with the Red Sox on this. They feel from an unamed source they did everything correct here and notice nobody is interfering on Napoli's part. You know if they were pulling something "shady" the union would be screaming right now.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 24, 2012 9:11:25 GMT -5
Bad Hip, bad defense, bad hitter with men on base = bad player & bad contract for the Red Sox. Hope they back out completely.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 25, 2012 10:41:55 GMT -5
Bad Hip, bad defense, bad hitter with men on base = bad player & bad contract for the Red Sox. Hope they back out completely. A "bad" hip may be something as simple as bone spurs which would prevent him from catching more than 40g/season. Bad defense from a 1b really isnt a big deal even though he's essentially an average defender at 1b.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 26, 2012 0:30:03 GMT -5
Bad Hip, bad defense, bad hitter with men on base = bad player & bad contract for the Red Sox. Hope they back out completely. A "bad" hip may be something as simple as bone spurs which would prevent him from catching more than 40g/season. Bad defense from a 1b really isnt a big deal even though he's essentially an average defender at 1b. People don't allow themselves to look at the facts before they comment on these players. The Red Sox are literally a much better team with Napoli in the fold, but I get the feel that some people here don't want to win at all for some reason. Most importantly of all if any of these contracts turn out to be back contracts, even though they are just 3 years long, last year showed just how easy it is to rid yourself of them if need be.
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Post by welovewally on Dec 26, 2012 2:20:24 GMT -5
People don't allow themselves to look at the facts before they comment on these players. The Red Sox are literally a much better team with Napoli in the fold, but I get the feel that some people here don't want to win at all for some reason. The facts clearly show that Napoli does not make the Red Sox a better team with him in the fold. But I feel that some people here don't want to allow themselves to believe the true facts before commenting. And it is because we do want the Red Sox to win that makes a possible Napoli signing so disappointing. The majority of people (but the minority of posters here) feel this way about Napoli.
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Post by jioh on Dec 26, 2012 6:32:13 GMT -5
People don't allow themselves to look at the facts before they comment on these players. The Red Sox are literally a much better team with Napoli in the fold, but I get the feel that some people here don't want to win at all for some reason. The facts clearly show that Napoli does not make the Red Sox a better team with him in the fold. But I feel that some people here don't want to allow themselves to believe the true facts before commenting. And it is because we do want the Red Sox to win that makes a possible Napoli signing so disappointing. The majority of people (but the minority of posters here) feel this way about Napoli. Wow, facts, true facts, and then a Nixonian appeal to the "silent majority" whose views you know by ESP? I certainly think itt's obvious Napoli makes the Sox much better.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 26, 2012 7:34:48 GMT -5
The facts clearly show that Napoli does not make the Red Sox a better team with him in the fold. I don't understand this statement. The Red Sox clearly do not have a firstbaseman for 2013. You can have an argument about the money spent or the potentially better options or even his health, but I don't see how he doesn't make the 2013 Red Sox better.
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