gerry
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Posts: 1,664
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Post by gerry on Dec 2, 2015 17:29:12 GMT -5
Farrell will always mismanage the lineup and bullpen. That's a given. I wonder if a stronger and more pro-active FO, combined with general concern about JF' maintaining remission ( this is tough even in less stressful and less demanding conditions), and enhanced trust in Lovullo/coaches both by JF and the FO, might mean fewer opportunities for onfield mismanagement. Within this new administrative paradigm, yelling at the TV may no longer be a given.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 2, 2015 17:43:46 GMT -5
Farrell will always mismanage the lineup and bullpen. That's a given. I wonder if a stronger and more pro-active FO, combined with general concern about JF' maintaining remission ( this is tough even in less stressful and less demanding conditions), and enhanced trust in Lovullo/coaches both by JF and the FO, might mean fewer opportunities for onfield mismanagement. Within this new administrative paradigm, yelling at the TV may no longer be a given. If you're yelling at your TV watching the Red Sox, you'd probably have a coronary watching the Giants. Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy could care less about what the pocket protector crowd thinks. Then again, all they've done is win three out of the last six World Series.
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Post by thursty on Dec 2, 2015 18:21:49 GMT -5
I wonder if a stronger and more pro-active FO, combined with general concern about JF' maintaining remission ( this is tough even in less stressful and less demanding conditions), and enhanced trust in Lovullo/coaches both by JF and the FO, might mean fewer opportunities for onfield mismanagement. Within this new administrative paradigm, yelling at the TV may no longer be a given. If you're yelling at your TV watching the Red Sox, you'd probably have a coronary watching the Giants. Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy could care less about what the pocket protector crowd thinks. Then again, all they've done is win three out of the last six World Series. Exactly; Bochy has always believed that there is a predesignated closer that only pitches the 9th in a save situation
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 3, 2015 1:23:38 GMT -5
The only given about next year is Farrell is pretty much going to mismanage everything.
The question will be, can the talent overcome it.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 3, 2015 1:30:07 GMT -5
The only given about next year is Farrell is pretty much going to mismanage everything. The question will be, can the talent overcome it. That's it, go after the cancer survivor. And what are you going to do for an encore, push an old lady down a flight of stairs?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 3, 2015 6:08:25 GMT -5
The only given about next year is Farrell is pretty much going to mismanage everything. The question will be, can the talent overcome it. That's it, go after the cancer survivor. And what are you going to do for an encore, push an old lady down a flight of stairs? I'm asking both of you to please keep it civil.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 3, 2015 6:17:17 GMT -5
The only given about next year is Farrell is pretty much going to mismanage everything. The question will be, can the talent overcome it. That's it, go after the cancer survivor. And what are you going to do for an encore, push an old lady down a flight of stairs? We've gone over this, but I feel the need to mention this again. While cancer is a terrible thing (I lost family members because of it), it shouldn't make one immune to criticism.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 3, 2015 21:31:23 GMT -5
The only given about next year is Farrell is pretty much going to mismanage everything. The question will be, can the talent overcome it. That's it, go after the cancer survivor. And what are you going to do for an encore, push an old lady down a flight of stairs? Lol, such a ridiculous argument. I sure as hell am glad John Farrell is in remission and will hopefully live a LOOOOOOOONG and healthy life...I still want nothing to do with him being the manager of this team. I believe he is one of the 5 worst managers in this league and that the only reason he kept his job was because he had cancer and it would have been a PR nightmare firing the manager battling cancer. The idea that we can't talk about a person's merit for the job SIMPLY because they survived a horrible, terrible disease is just plain dumb. I hope he never gets cancer again. But I hope he gets fired 1 month into the season. No doubt in my mind Torey Louvello is a better manager.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 4, 2015 1:44:32 GMT -5
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 4, 2015 1:53:59 GMT -5
John Farrell is a fine manager. He can't make great teams out of garbage, nor should we expect him to.
For all the "fire Farrell" people, who do we want instead? Bud Black? A first time manager? Hokay.
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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2015 2:24:59 GMT -5
I thought Torey Lovullo was generally a better strategic manager than Farrell was. I would also have been happy with Gabe Kapler and probably Dave Roberts or Jason Varitek.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 4, 2015 2:49:41 GMT -5
Did you actually read the article? He doesn't actually say he wanted both, the reporter asked what Farrell thought about the Red Sox possibly adding both Price and Greinke and he said "That would be like having two turkeys in Thanksgiving". You could ask anyone that question and you'd get the same response since it's a hypothetical question and not something that Farrell was pushing for.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 4, 2015 2:56:49 GMT -5
I absolutely loved the way Lovullo managed this team. Not because of their record in the second half under him, but because he played the matchups, seemed to have a good grasp of when and how to use his relievers and I hardly ever questioned his in-game decisions. I would gladly take him over Farrell, who I believe is kept on mainly because he seems to keep the clubhouse in check.
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Post by dirtywater on Dec 4, 2015 8:41:53 GMT -5
That's it, go after the cancer survivor. And what are you going to do for an encore, push an old lady down a flight of stairs? Lol, such a ridiculous argument. I sure as hell am glad John Farrell is in remission and will hopefully live a LOOOOOOOONG and healthy life...I still want nothing to do with him being the manager of this team. I believe he is one of the 5 worst managers in this league and that the only reason he kept his job was because he had cancer and it would have been a PR nightmare firing the manager battling cancer. The idea that we can't talk about a person's merit for the job SIMPLY because they survived a horrible, terrible disease is just plain dumb. I hope he never gets cancer again. But I hope he gets fired 1 month into the season. No doubt in my mind Torey Louvello is a better manager.Lovullo was managing a very different roster devoid of dead weight (victorino, napoli, masterson etc.). I don't think you realize how little the manager has to do with winning on a day to day basis as long as he's not running a Bobby V clown show. Last year was an indictment on trusting veterans over your young talented core. Not the manager.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2015 8:53:15 GMT -5
Lol, such a ridiculous argument. I sure as hell am glad John Farrell is in remission and will hopefully live a LOOOOOOOONG and healthy life...I still want nothing to do with him being the manager of this team. I believe he is one of the 5 worst managers in this league and that the only reason he kept his job was because he had cancer and it would have been a PR nightmare firing the manager battling cancer. The idea that we can't talk about a person's merit for the job SIMPLY because they survived a horrible, terrible disease is just plain dumb. I hope he never gets cancer again. But I hope he gets fired 1 month into the season. No doubt in my mind Torey Louvello is a better manager.Lovullo was managing a very different roster devoid of dead weight (victorino, napoli, masterson etc.). I don't think you realize how little the manager has to do with winning on a day to day basis as long as he's not running a Bobby V clown show. Last year was an indictment on trusting veterans over your young talented core. Not the manager. No one was comparing the results or debating that the rosters were different. Lovullo was making smarter decisions consistently. And the point about trusting veterans over young players, yeah that's also a Farrell trait - to a fault. Maybe you remember JBJ's earlier stints during the season, he got to face 3 Cy Young candidates and then got sent down because Farrell wouldn't play him because he wasn't hitting. I have hopes that with a new regime change, that someone will pressure Farrell to do what's right and not let him make the same stupid decisions over and over again. We can and did predict the awfulness of pitchers when they go through the order the 4th time. Lovullo seemed to have that down pat. But we know damn well that what will most likely happen is that Chris Young will face too many RHP an Pablo will face too many LHP.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2015 13:35:25 GMT -5
I thought Torey Lovullo was generally a better strategic manager than Farrell was. I would also have been happy with Gabe Kapler and probably Dave Roberts or Jason Varitek. Not saying you are wrong to be happy with Kapler, Roberts, or Varitek, but all I'm wondering is how do you know that they will be better strategic managers than Farrell? It's kind of like the argument of "Well this guy can't be any worse than the guy we have" and then you find out, my lord, he is even worse. I don't think John Farrell will ever challenge Earl Weaver as far as his strategies go. I've watched a lot of managers from Zimmer to Farrell, and Farrell is a lot better than a lot of the managers I've seen the Red Sox employ. He is better than Zimmer who cost the Sox two pennants, better than McNamara who cost the Sox the World Series, better than Hobson, who was absolutely clueless, certainly better than Little and certainly better than Bobby V, and of course, Joe Kerrigan. You can argue if he is better than Jimy Williams, Morgan, or Houk. I don't necessary know that he is. I do know that he seems liked and reasonably respected by his players. There's no Bobby V mutiny going on. They were able to win a World Series with him. He at least didn't get in the way of it. He was kind of like Bob Lemon replacing Billy Martin, where the players relaxed and played better without the circus always being in town. I don't think he's a great strategist by any measure, but I don't think he's that bad either comparatively speaking. Most of MLB doesn't employ rocket scientists in their dugouts as managers and at the end of the day a lot of these decisions don't matter as much as the true quality of the team, which over the past few years, has been quite lacking. The dumbest move I remember Farrell making was letting Brandon Workman take his first major league AB in the 9th inning of a tied World Series game. At least he manned up and admitted that he screwed up. Certainly better than doubling down on his mistake. So if you give Farrell a good team, he should do fine with it and won't likely mess it up or prevent it from reaching its destination, but if you give him a lousy team he won't be able to do much to have it play better than it normally would. I don't know how long Farrell lasts with DDo around. It could be that Lovullo is waiting in the wings or perhaps the Sox rebound, he remains manager for awhile until perhaps a guy like Jason Varitek gets groomed to manage. We'll see how that works. I'm sure a lot of us have always thought that Varitek could be a good manager, but we really don't know. He'll likely command respect and should have a good grasp as to when a pitcher is tiring, but who knows what kind of strategist he would be?
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Post by borisman on Dec 4, 2015 13:36:46 GMT -5
Who didn't? If they weren't being suffocated by a couple of contracts then I think they would have gone after both of them and probably traded for a bat. As for Farrell as manager, we all know he's on a VERY short leash and he must know that with his bench coach being given a raise (it wasn't JUST a safety net incase JF wasn't healthy enough at some point).
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 8, 2015 22:22:47 GMT -5
Heard the Skipper on MLB (Sirius) radio today. He sounded strong and like the Farrell we knew before his illness. He's optimistic about the offseason moves and looking forward to ST.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 9, 2015 3:45:23 GMT -5
Heard the Skipper on MLB (Sirius) radio today. He sounded strong and like the Farrell we knew before his illness. He's optimistic about the offseason moves and looking forward to ST. Farrell was on MLB Network as well. He looked healthy, if anything a little chubbier than in the past. He seemed very enthused about the team, referred to the power arms the team had acquired and said this was something the team had been lacking the last couple of seasons. He talked about preparing Uehara to pitch the 8th as though it was the 9th and said that the addition of Kimbrel would help prevent Tazawa from being overused - Which suggests that Tazawa isn't going anywhere heading into his walk season (in case anyone was wondering). Nothing earth-shattering but good to see nonetheless.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 9, 2015 4:14:53 GMT -5
said that the addition of Kimbrel would help prevent Tazawa from being overused I used to think that was the manager's responsibility, but Farrell clearly disagrees.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 9, 2015 6:51:32 GMT -5
said that the addition of Kimbrel would help prevent Tazawa from being overused I used to think that was the manager's responsibility, but Farrell clearly disagrees. Right because in May when Taz is able to pitch and it's a close game it's easy to bypass him for a crappy option because you're managing usage for later. Always very negative.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 9, 2015 6:55:34 GMT -5
I believe the point he was trying to make was they had so few reliable options that adding more will naturally allow the others to stay fresher. Which in turn hopefully, makes them more effective.
It seems like a good mix, depending on how Smiths attitude is, to have healthy competition but guys won't be fighting over who closes. Koji and Smith have both been successful not closing.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 9, 2015 10:08:00 GMT -5
I used to think that was the manager's responsibility, but Farrell clearly disagrees. Right because in May when Taz is able to pitch and it's a close game it's easy to bypass him for a crappy option because you're managing usage for later. Always very negative. Farrell gets paid enough money to also do things that are not easy.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2015 10:46:36 GMT -5
It looks like we replaced Ogando, Breslow, Machi with Kimbrel, Smith and Wright.......That changes everything, not too many weak spots there....One of the more reliable 2015 relievers (Ross Jr) is probably our worst 2016 reliever.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 9, 2015 11:57:57 GMT -5
Right because in May when Taz is able to pitch and it's a close game it's easy to bypass him for a crappy option because you're managing usage for later. Always very negative. Farrell gets paid enough money to also do things that are not easy. He gets paid money to win games and using his best relievers is the way to do it in the instances we are speaking of. When you have 3 or 4 really good options you can start looking more closely at usage than you can if you don't.
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