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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2016 14:24:49 GMT -5
Considering that they're roughly equally valuable players (5-6 WAR range), and have similar years of control, age, and Sale has the longer track record but makes a lot more, that deal makes sense really only as essentially a 1-for-1. Maybe the BoSox include a couple low-level throw-ins. As essentially a challenge trade, it works for both teams.
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Post by barney27 on Aug 7, 2016 16:23:39 GMT -5
I find it very interesting that lots of people seem to want to trade a gold glove all star centerfielder. Center is a premium position that is hard to fill. A young guy with I think 2 more years of control. WOW. I know its boras. We are 2 -3 games out in the loss column with still lots of games to play. Seems to me we have already given up on this year. We pick up a pitcher and open another hole in the outfield. Not sure that all is a plus.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 7, 2016 16:26:59 GMT -5
The White Sox aren't doing a 1-for-1 for Sale.
And yeah I do not understand at all why so many people are so hot to trade JBJ. If it weren't for the success of Betts and Bogaerts not one person would be advocating for trading Bradley.
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Post by barney27 on Aug 7, 2016 16:29:40 GMT -5
jbj has 4 more years before fa. xb has 3 and mookie has 4. Why trade any of them until they get close to fa.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2016 16:38:29 GMT -5
I don't agree with it, but the rationale for trading Bradley is as follows: -Betts is a center fielder playing right field out of necessity, but could be moved back to CF easily. -Moncada profiles better as a right fielder than as a third baseman (it allows his raw tools (arm, range) to play up, while somewhat hiding his issues with footwork, hands, etc.), and Bradley is essentially "blocking" him. -It still feels like the starting pitching is the problem with this team. -You might be selling high on Bradley.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2016 16:49:17 GMT -5
jbj has 4 more years before fa. xb has 3 and mookie has 4. Why trade any of them until they get close to fa. Because if you can get one of the best pitchers in the league, I'd rather give up one of them who looks like they can be replaced, than to destroy the entire farm system.
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Aug 7, 2016 17:02:38 GMT -5
wow......insane how quick we are to trade an all star just because we have a minor league player who plays his position. HES AN ALL-STAR!!!!
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 7, 2016 17:20:15 GMT -5
wow......insane how quick we are to trade an all star just because we have a minor league player who could possibly play his position at some point in the future. HES AN ALL-STAR!!!! Added in bold. No point digging a hole to fill a hole
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2016 17:35:22 GMT -5
wow......insane how quick we are to trade an all star just because we have a minor league player who plays his position. HES AN ALL-STAR!!!! yeah, for Chris Sale, how can anyone possibly want him?
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2016 17:36:26 GMT -5
wow......insane how quick we are to trade an all star just because we have a minor league player who could possibly play his position at some point in the future. HES AN ALL-STAR!!!! Added in bold. No point digging a hole to fill a hole Do you think it's equally hard to replace JBJ (oh hey, we have Mookie in RF) or find a Chris Sale?
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Post by barney27 on Aug 7, 2016 17:42:32 GMT -5
I don't agree with it, but the rationale for trading Bradley is as follows: -Betts is a center fielder playing right field out of necessity, but could be moved back to CF easily. -Moncada profiles better as a right fielder than as a third baseman (it allows his raw tools (arm, range) to play up, while somewhat hiding his issues with footwork, hands, etc.), and Bradley is essentially "blocking" him. -It still feels like the starting pitching is the problem with this team. -You might be selling high on Bradley. So the idea is to trade an all star gold glove young outfielder who has just come into his own. Who is under team control for the next 4 years. For a quality starting pitcher. And replace the outfielder with an unproven premium looking prospect who has never played the position, and has not adjusted to AA pitching. Seems like a BIG reach. I definitely hope dd does not do this in the next 2 years. I see the rationale and maybe this is a career year for jbj.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2016 17:44:27 GMT -5
I don't agree with it, but the rationale for trading Bradley is as follows: -Betts is a center fielder playing right field out of necessity, but could be moved back to CF easily. -Moncada profiles better as a right fielder than as a third baseman (it allows his raw tools (arm, range) to play up, while somewhat hiding his issues with footwork, hands, etc.), and Bradley is essentially "blocking" him. -It still feels like the starting pitching is the problem with this team. -You might be selling high on Bradley. So the idea is to trade an all star gold glove young outfielder who has just come into his own. Who is under team control for the next 4 years. For a quality starting pitcher. And replace the outfielder with an unproven premium looking prospect who has never played the position, and has not adjusted to AA pitching. Seems like a BIG reach. I definitely hope dd does not do this in the next 2 years. I see the rationale and maybe this is a career year for jbj. They could also put Benintendi in CF, leave Mookie in RF and sign a LHH LF to platoon with Young until Moncada is ready.
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Post by ricelynnevans on Aug 7, 2016 18:25:02 GMT -5
Right field Fenway is one of the toughest around to play, so I don't think you can just plug anybody in there. Mookie handles it well because of his athleticism. I think it might be easier to find a centerfield replacement as opposed to sliding Mookie to center. Maybe Beni could handle center in the bigs, haven't seen enough of him myself to decide. If offered Sale for JBJ (and I doubt the White Sox would), I think it would be a no brainer. Jackie a great young player but Sale is a perennial Cy Young candidate. To get hung up on Jackie being an "All Star" is like the guy getting hung up on tauting Pomeranz as an "All Star". Not sure if it's the same poster (and nothing personal) but I believe the "All Star" tag in the way they are using it is given way too much weight. They are 2 guys having very good/great years without a continuos track record of doing so.
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Post by dnfl333 on Aug 7, 2016 19:21:11 GMT -5
Your all nuts. JBJ is a superstar in the making. Elite defender with 25 HR power. Yeah, lets deal em off. Ridiculous it really is. Any of you guys sell swamp land?
You trade Jackie, your going to lose a portion of the fan base. Same could be said for Betts, XB, AB and Moncada.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2016 19:25:18 GMT -5
Your all nuts. JBJ is a superstar in the making. Elite defender with 25 HR power. Yeah, lets deal em off. Ridiculous it really is. Any of you guys sell swamp land? You trade Jackie, your going to lose a portion of the fan base. Same could be said for Betts, XB, AB and Moncada. I swear, you think that people would consider how good Chris Sale was when making these comments. We're talking about a hypothetical JBJ for Sale straight up trade and people are thinking it's so dumb that they wouldn't watch the Red Sox anymore?
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Post by thursty on Aug 7, 2016 19:30:20 GMT -5
JBJ is the 3rd best defensive CF . . . in his own division
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Post by semperfisox on Aug 7, 2016 20:24:00 GMT -5
Your all nuts. JBJ is a superstar in the making. Elite defender with 25 HR power. Yeah, lets deal em off. Ridiculous it really is. Any of you guys sell swamp land? You trade Jackie, your going to lose a portion of the fan base. Same could be said for Betts, XB, AB and Moncada. I swear, you think that people would consider how good Chris Sale was when making these comments. We're talking about a hypothetical JBJ for Sale straight up trade and people are thinking it's so dumb that they wouldn't watch the Red Sox anymore? He's not the first on here I've seen making such a ridiculous statement. Not being a fan over something like that is laughable
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Post by joshv02 on Aug 7, 2016 20:29:35 GMT -5
JBJ is the 3rd best defensive CF . . . in his own division You're doing UZR wrong. I can see pillar being better. But he is possibly the best best in baseball so that is no indictment. But the three year sample doesn't show Ellsbury is better than Bradley, and looking at one year unregressed UZR is pointless. Read MGL's comments in the subject.
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Post by ricelynnevans on Aug 7, 2016 20:49:04 GMT -5
I think he means Tampa Bay's Kiermaier who is on pretty level par.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2016 20:49:29 GMT -5
JBJ is the 3rd best defensive CF . . . in his own division You're doing UZR wrong. I can see pillar being better. But he is possibly the best best in baseball so that is no indictment. But the three year sample doesn't show Ellsbury is better than Bradley, and looking at one year unregressed UZR is pointless. Read MGL's comments in the subject. He's talking about Kiermaier, who is having a merely good (rather than otherworldly) defensive year per UZR (DRS is a little more bullish). Taking everything into account, Bradley probably is worse than those two defensively, though that's not really that much of an indictment on his defense-- all three of those guys are top 5-ish in baseball.
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Aug 7, 2016 21:11:17 GMT -5
I think you people are hysterical, i really do. You cry when we trade away prospects and the second the ones we keep become all-stars you're ready to trade them. Whatever you're smoking i want some. Chris Sale for JBJR is the dumbest trade idea I've heard of in a while. They wanted Moncada/Benintendi PLUS Mookie/JBJR/Bogaerts. All of a sudden they are just going to do it for 1? UMMMM NO.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 8, 2016 0:23:19 GMT -5
I don't agree with it, but the rationale for trading Bradley is as follows: -Betts is a center fielder playing right field out of necessity, but could be moved back to CF easily. -Moncada profiles better as a right fielder than as a third baseman (it allows his raw tools (arm, range) to play up, while somewhat hiding his issues with footwork, hands, etc.), and Bradley is essentially "blocking" him. -It still feels like the starting pitching is the problem with this team. -You might be selling high on Bradley. That is exactly my rationale, with Mookie to CF. It also allows them to trade the odd man out in the rotation.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 8, 2016 0:32:35 GMT -5
The White Sox aren't doing a 1-for-1 for Sale. And yeah I do not understand at all why so many people are so hot to trade JBJ. If it weren't for the success of Betts and Bogaerts not one person would be advocating for trading Bradley. That's the point, it depends on the trade. I'm certainly not hot to trade him. I've been advocating for him, even through the miserable times. Repeatedly, to people blathering on about what a bust he was and how they should DFA him. The White Sox won't do a 1-for-1? Then for me the trade doesn't happen. Simple as that. Which is why the trade probably won't happen, because the White Sox would ask for too much (Bradley alone might be too much). I simply commented on the reasonableness of the idea, not its viability. Trading position players for pitchers is always a dicey proposition. But, based on resource scarcity (#1 starters vs. 5-WAR OFs), and the Sox's minor league system, that trade addresses a high-end need while potentially having an internal solution.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 8, 2016 0:37:24 GMT -5
I think you people are hysterical, i really do. You cry when we trade away prospects and the second the ones we keep become all-stars you're ready to trade them. Whatever you're smoking i want some. Chris Sale for JBJR is the dumbest trade idea I've heard of in a while. They wanted Moncada/Benintendi PLUS Mookie/JBJR/Bogaerts. All of a sudden they are just going to do it for 1? UMMMM NO. Differentiate: "This is the trade I think is reasonable" (regardless of whether it would happen), and "This is the trade I want to see." (Regardless of its reasonableness).
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Post by telson13 on Aug 8, 2016 0:41:34 GMT -5
Your all nuts. JBJ is a superstar in the making. Elite defender with 25 HR power. Yeah, lets deal em off. Ridiculous it really is. Any of you guys sell swamp land? You trade Jackie, your going to lose a portion of the fan base. Same could be said for Betts, XB, AB and Moncada. I swear, you think that people would consider how good Chris Sale was when making these comments. We're talking about a hypothetical JBJ for Sale straight up trade and people are thinking it's so dumb that they wouldn't watch the Red Sox anymore? Apparently, discussing whether a trade is even a good idea is sufficient force to bunch panties so high they require surgical removal. "Hysterical" is right.
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