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Red Sox acquire Craig Kimbrel for Margot, Guerra +
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Post by thursty on Nov 13, 2015 21:16:25 GMT -5
And one thing I want to emphasize, Kimbrel is showing some worrying signs of decline. 2 years in a row of walking over 3/9 worst WHIP since 2010 (his rookie year) worst HR rate of career (with Petco his home park) worst FIP- and ERA- of his career. Yes, he throws hard and strikes out a lot. But, it's not clear to me he's a safer bet than a healthy Koji
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 13, 2015 21:17:35 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier 17s17 seconds ago DD says that 'most likely, any acquisition we make in starting pitching would first happen in the free agent field.' Brian MacPherson @brianmacp 20s20 seconds ago Dombrowski: "This is probably our major acquisition of this winter as far as the trade market is concerned." Fine wth that.
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Post by marshaevelyn on Nov 13, 2015 21:18:24 GMT -5
I wish Guerra wasn't included also only because he could have been used as a top chip in another trade. But whining about the misses on Lester and Miller is futile. Dombrowski had to fix Ben's errors and he has more to fix still. Overall I like the trade because of the 3 years of control, and Kimbrel is only 28. Let's just hope he doesn't go down before Memorial Day a la Bailey and Hanrahan.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Nov 13, 2015 21:18:58 GMT -5
If that is truly the case it makes sense and given the buzz around Chapman I am guessing he wanted to overpay to have someone locked up.
I am just weary of striking out in FA but with Dombrowski I am guessing that is unlikely.
Kimbrell, Price/Cueto/Greinke/O'Day wouldn't be bad for losing Margot/Guerra and Allen.
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 13, 2015 21:21:25 GMT -5
So we're also going to give a massive long term deal to a 30 year old pitcher. The hits just keep on coming.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,345
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Post by radiohix on Nov 13, 2015 21:23:01 GMT -5
Looking at the pieces traded, if you change Allen with Owens and you'll have the Indians FO listening on a Carrasco trade IMO. Am I way off here?
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Post by thursty on Nov 13, 2015 21:22:39 GMT -5
I bet the Royals would have given up Wade Davis in a heartbeat for this ransom
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 13, 2015 21:24:39 GMT -5
Instantly improves a major weakness on last years team. If the cost is high...so what. People around here too much like Ben Cherington...holding on to all these guys...look where that got him. I love the deal.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Nov 13, 2015 21:24:42 GMT -5
So we're also going to give a massive long term deal to a 30 year old pitcher. The hits just keep on coming. Like it or not there was no outcome that was going to be 'great' for the majority of the board. They were going to have to trade more than what was rumored to get a Sonny Gray/Chris Sale/Jose Fernandez/etc. and give up the prize prospects. I don't love the deal as I think it is a misuse of assets but if it is the only trade they make and they sign the pitchers they need what else can you ask? It isn't our money and I would much rather sign a Price/Greinke than give up multiple top end pieces to get an ace. It just was never likely they stand pat and let 'variances' work their way out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 21:25:34 GMT -5
Well things were going to change with DD. So, whatever. I expect the overreactions with his first blown save.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 13, 2015 21:25:55 GMT -5
I really don't see why the Indians would deal Carrasco. I think a lot of that was fan speculation.
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Post by brendan98 on Nov 13, 2015 21:27:18 GMT -5
Well, the Sox fixed the bullpen with one move, possibly add O'Day or another above average guy and turn a weakness into a strength. If they sign a free-agent like Greinke, Price, Cueto, Zimmerman they will be pretty much done, and without giving up any of the elite prospects or major-league studs.
I agree that this trade is in overpay, but if all they give up is Margot, Guerra and Allen plus possibly the number 12 pick, and they fix the pitching staff, I guess I'm ok with it. Maybe, just maybe DD had discussions involving trading for an ace and the only names he kept hearing were Bogaerts, Betts, Moncada, if that's so and he decided to use his trade chips to acquire the best bullpen piece he could, and use free agency to get the ace, then again I'm good with that. Like everyone else has said, I am more than a little worried that the next deal will be Gray for Bogaerts, Moncada, Espinoza, or something similar, and if that's the case than I too will be livid!
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Post by goldenmonkey34 on Nov 13, 2015 21:28:57 GMT -5
So we're also going to give a massive long term deal to a 30 year old pitcher. The hits just keep on coming. People like you think we can get top notch players by trading no talent and not making any significant free agent signings. Ben tried the method of trading little to no prospects and buying bargain bin players and look where we are now. Was it an overpay? yes, but that doesnt mean DD should be fired and has no clue what hes doing and that were doomed for all eternity
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Post by redsox1534 on Nov 13, 2015 21:31:35 GMT -5
Well Kimberl is a great class we all no that but I'd rather have Chapman even with less control Kimberl has shown signs of decline.
Margot and Carlos and allen should of been anuff we deff overpaid I'm disgusted by that.plenty of good arms at closer that could of been had for less. Andrew miller? Ken Giles? Wade davis? Etc.....
We still need one more arm for the bullpen then let workman hembree Layne noe Barnes Ross etc fight out the final 3 spots behind Kimberl tazawa Koji and a good proven vet
I have been waiting for us to over pay for a player in a trade now well do it in fa. Got a bad feeling greinke an price won't be the sp we acquire I think cueto or Zimmerman will be.
We don't have many needs but another middle of order bat (hanley and pablo are not it and ortiz is at the end) #1 sp and rp is about all we need.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 13, 2015 21:31:56 GMT -5
I think we've solved the mystery of which team said they would have started Moncada in the majors. Hold up: Corey Brock @followthepadres 5s5 seconds ago My bad, misunderstood AJP: He meant Asuaje as having a chance in ST. He's 24, makes more sense. Sorry, balancing #dad duties here. You would not believe the discount rate I apply to the s**t on Twitter. Alex Speier @alexspeier 17s17 seconds ago DD says that 'most likely, any acquisition we make in starting pitching would first happen in the free agent field.' Brian MacPherson @brianmacp 20s20 seconds ago Dombrowski: "This is probably our major acquisition of this winter as far as the trade market is concerned." Well, everything he's said so far he's delivered on - including the pain - so I tend to take this at face value. The pieces were redundant, agreed, and these were exactly the guys the board reached consensus on as trade chips. The problem is that those were the major trade chips they had available if they want to keep Espinoza, Benintendi, and Moncada... all gone for a closer as others have hammered home. Margot I believe is going to be around for a long time, and even if he's still an A- crapshoot it's hard to argue with Guerra's glove at SS. I know next to nothing about Logan. He's far enough away it's hard to tell if that's a mirage out there. But I also think Asuaje will have a little more value than most assume, though it will probably be as a utility guy in the long run. The current consensus is that it was a lot to give up for the power-armed closer so many yearned for. Can't disagree with that either. We may all feel better when as the rest of the off-season unfolds, but for now this stings a bit.
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Post by mannofsteele on Nov 13, 2015 21:34:31 GMT -5
Looking at the pieces traded, if you change Allen with Owens and you'll have the Indians FO listening on a Carrasco trade IMO. Am I way off here? Blah, that would be terrible. I'm sorry but I cannot stand the idea of Carrasco costing that much on one quality season heading into his age 29 season.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 13, 2015 21:36:50 GMT -5
So we're also going to give a massive long term deal to a 30 year old pitcher. The hits just keep on coming. Or. Hear me out. The pitchers the sox wanted to trade for are not available or we would have to completely gut the farm and it's a better deal to get one via FA
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 13, 2015 21:38:54 GMT -5
They say a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush but this feels like a bird in hand is worth 3 in the bush. The good news is Kimbrel is a really really really really good closer. Yes I get the whole concept of value, WAR, etc etc etc.....but who would the Sox have signed on this years free agent market that could have been as good or a better option than Kimbrel???
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Nov 13, 2015 21:39:41 GMT -5
Looking at the pieces traded, if you change Allen with Owens and you'll have the Indians FO listening on a Carrasco trade IMO. Am I way off here? I think you are. I am guessing Dombrowski tried hard on Chapman and the price was Margot plus another piece. At that point why trade it for a one year rental? If Margot plus guys A ball and below got you a top tier starter I am sure Dave would have been all over that.
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Post by blizzards39 on Nov 13, 2015 21:42:09 GMT -5
I bet the Royals would have given up Wade Davis in a heartbeat for this ransom But 3 years vs one. I love this deal. Are bullpen is horrible. We know taz is no good in 9th. And a reasonable contract. And kept all the headline young guys. Good job DD
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 13, 2015 21:42:16 GMT -5
So we're also going to give a massive long term deal to a 30 year old pitcher. The hits just keep on coming. People like you think we can get top notch players by trading no talent and not making any significant free agent signings. Ben tried the method of trading little to no prospects and buying bargain bin players and look where we are now. Was it an overpay? yes, but that doesnt mean DD should be fired and has no clue what hes doing and that were doomed for all eternity We won a WS with Ben's approach.
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 13, 2015 21:41:53 GMT -5
Looking at the pieces traded, if you change Allen with Owens and you'll have the Indians FO listening on a Carrasco trade IMO. Am I way off here? Blah, that would be terrible. I'm sorry but I cannot stand the idea of Carrasco costing that much on one quality season heading into his age 29 season. Do you think he's less valuable than Craig Kimbrel? Because the latter is owed twice as much over the next three years (including the option).
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Post by chavopepe2 on Nov 13, 2015 21:44:05 GMT -5
Looking at the pieces traded, if you change Allen with Owens and you'll have the Indians FO listening on a Carrasco trade IMO. Am I way off here? I think you are. I am guessing Dombrowski tried hard on Chapman and the price was Margot plus another piece. At that point why trade it for a one year rental? If Margot plus guys A ball and below got you a top tier starter I am sure Dave would have been all over that. If we can survive this offseason without trading anyone else from the top 10, and we build a solid rotation, I guess I can deal with this trade.
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 13, 2015 21:46:04 GMT -5
Yeah that's slowly becoming my rationalization as well.
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2015 21:47:28 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm late to the party and haven't read the rest of the thread, but I just want to say that this is a truly, truly terrible trade.
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