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How do you improve the Red Sox
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Post by dnfl333 on Jun 26, 2016 17:28:17 GMT -5
Of course starting pitchers don't have injuries and depth is not a concern in the least, for the love of god use some common sense beyond the numbers, this coming from a guy whose believes you start with the numbers and play off of them when needed. Despite having the top offense in baseball the team has played below .500 for about a month now. 9 17 since May 26 last 30 Games Starting rotation ERA 5.5 Bullpen ERA 3.5 but not good enough to compete with O's Pen at 2.8 and 20 wins. Orioles rotation with a 5 ERA 26th in the MLB with less runs scored than Boston. Moral of my story, find bullpen help which should be cheaper than finding a SP and hope the Offense keeps hitting!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2016 17:37:01 GMT -5
Of course starting pitchers don't have injuries and depth is not a concern in the least, for the love of god use some common sense beyond the numbers, this coming from a guy whose believes you start with the numbers and play off of them when needed. Despite having the top offense in baseball the team has played below .500 for about a month now. 9 17 since May 26 last 30 Games Starting rotation ERA 5.5 Bullpen ERA 3.5 but not good enough to compete with O's Pen at 2.8 and 20 wins. Orioles rotation with a 5 ERA 26th in the MLB with less runs scored than Boston. Moral of my story, find bullpen help which should be cheaper than finding a SP and hope the Offense keeps hitting! Actually 9-14, not 9-17. They were 32-20 before Ramirez and Shaw slumped, LF turned into a gaping hole with injuries to Holt, Swihart, and Young, and Porcello struggled, and nobody else picked up the slack behind Wright and Price. Add the impact of the loss of Carson Smith as Koji and even Tazawa struggled and you get 9-14. The team is 41-34. They were never 32-17, but they were at 32-20. 12 games over .500 is their high water mark. There's plenty of season left. Dombrowski will probably make the move for Teheran and Vizcaino in about a month's time. Eventually they'll get somebody to stabilize LF, too, and the team will start winning again. They'll be in the race for the division and probably wind up squeaking by in 1st place or wind up one of the wild cards, which is the position they're in now. The Red Sox are hardly the 1st team to ever go 9-14 in a season and win 90 games or so. Is baseball new to you?
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Post by trotfan on Jun 26, 2016 18:35:15 GMT -5
You don't repeat the Bagwell trade and you don't trade any of the following new core JBJ,Betts ,Bogey,Benny,Moncada,Swihart.........but it's time to entertain the likes of Hanley ,Pedey ,Wright,Shaw ,Buck,Vaz and see if one or two of these plus a lottery pick can land a starter and a LF .
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 26, 2016 19:28:27 GMT -5
ARLINGTON, Texas — The scuffling have Red Sox have been looking for help via trade, Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski said Sunday afternoon after the Rangers sent the Sox out of town with a 6-2 loss, but Dombrowski intimated that there aren't many choices out there. "It’s still early," Dombrowski said. "I can tell you I’ve done a great deal work, there’s five clubs that are willing to talk about it. They’re the same five clubs that have been at it all year, so it’s still a little early for that type of situation. We’ll just see what happens. www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2016/06/dave_dombrowski_on_red_sox_trades_ive_done_a_great_deal_ofMore at the link
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Post by templeusox on Jun 26, 2016 20:37:24 GMT -5
He's going to tear this organization apart from the inside out. Dombrowski has a contempt for prospects that is rare in this day and age.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 27, 2016 2:13:30 GMT -5
He's going to tear this organization apart from the inside out. Dombrowski has a contempt for prospects that is rare in this day an That is pretty strong. He held onto Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Shaw, Swihart, Travis, Vasquez as well as Barnes, Hembree, Johnson, Light, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Varvaro and recently intimated that current top prospects (likely Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, and Espinoza, Kopech) are too costly for what is currently available in trade. He seems at least as interested in sustained success (by hanging on to and acquiring future game changers ... like Groome) as with Expos and Marlins, as he was in trading prospects to win now for an aging owner in Detroit. This Farm system is truly deep enough to trade for 2016 Reinforcements without sacrificing the future. Now that he held onto future core at C, 2b, 3B, SS, CF, RF, he does have room to maneuver to meet legitimate current needs; and has been careful in developing, evaluating, and showcasing team assetts. He seems neither reckless nor ruthless, nor a hoarder of redundant depth.
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Don
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Post by Don on Jun 27, 2016 4:34:13 GMT -5
What are your opinions on how Mauricio Dubon compares to Francisco Lindor, as not only are their stats very similar but they both have a similar body type. G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO Dubon 62 235 53 72 89 11 3 0 29 33 0 25 24 4 .306 .387 .379 .766 1.14 Lindor 83 327 51 100 134 19 6 1 27 35 0 39 20 5 .306 .373 .410 .783 1.96
Lindor was a year younger than Dubon during his time in Adv A. And also should Josh Ockimey be considered at least as untouchable as Devers? His body of work in his twentieth year is similar to Ortiz's though Ockimey is on pace to strike out more but his walk rate is higher as well. I'm not at all saying Ockimey is going to be the next David Ortiz, I'm merely asking do you all think he's one of the prospects that we should hold onto.
G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO
Ortiz 129 485 89 156 248 34 2 18 93 52 8 108 3 4 .322 .390 .511 .901 - Ockimey 64 221 39 65 114 17 1 10 35 53 2 68 3 1 .294 .429 .516 .945 0.94
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 27, 2016 5:25:25 GMT -5
What are your opinions on how Mauricio Dubon compares to Francisco Lindor, as not only are their stats very similar but they both have a similar body type. G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO Dubon 62 235 53 72 89 11 3 0 29 33 0 25 24 4 .306 .387 .379 .766 1.14 Lindor 83 327 51 100 134 19 6 1 27 35 0 39 20 5 .306 .373 .410 .783 1.96 Lindor was a year younger than Dubon during his time in Adv A. [...] Similar body type? In the sense that both have two arms and two legs, yes. Dubon is 6', 160 (and looked like a sleek high school sophomore when I saw him last week), Lindor was 5'11" 170 when drafted and is at least 190 now (and looks chiseled in pictures).
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 27, 2016 5:30:22 GMT -5
9 17 since May 26 last 30 Games Starting rotation ERA 5.5 Bullpen ERA 3.5 but not good enough to compete with O's Pen at 2.8 and 20 wins. Orioles rotation with a 5 ERA 26th in the MLB with less runs scored than Boston. Moral of my story, find bullpen help which should be cheaper than finding a SP and hope the Offense keeps hitting! Actually 9-14, not 9-17. They were 32-20 before Ramirez and Shaw slumped, LF turned into a gaping hole with injuries to Holt, Swihart, and Young, and Porcello struggled, and nobody else picked up the slack behind Wright and Price. Add the impact of the loss of Carson Smith as Koji and even Tazawa struggled and you get 9-14. The team is 41-34. They were never 32-17, but they were at 32-20. 12 games over .500 is their high water mark. There's plenty of season left. Dombrowski will probably make the move for Teheran and Vizcaino in about a month's time. Eventually they'll get somebody to stabilize LF, too, and the team will start winning again. They'll be in the race for the division and probably wind up squeaking by in 1st place or wind up one of the wild cards, which is the position they're in now. The Red Sox are hardly the 1st team to ever go 9-14 in a season and win 90 games or so. Is baseball new to you? Funny I was going to ask the same. Why would we compare our staff to Baltimore or WS teams during the WS? Take your head out of the sand people and stop listening to those that are whistling past the graveyard. Every time someone attempts to say the SP is fine its always based on a caveat that is neither here nor there. It is the teams achilles heel. From the start of the thread I diagnosed what were the 3 weaknesses we had back on May 22. The only acceptable response to not improving the SP is that you believe the cost will be to high which may or may not be accurate but it's at least a valid belief the rest is smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking.
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Don
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Post by Don on Jun 27, 2016 5:59:59 GMT -5
What are your opinions on how Mauricio Dubon compares to Francisco Lindor, as not only are their stats very similar but they both have a similar body type. G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS GO/AO Dubon 62 235 53 72 89 11 3 0 29 33 0 25 24 4 .306 .387 .379 .766 1.14 Lindor 83 327 51 100 134 19 6 1 27 35 0 39 20 5 .306 .373 .410 .783 1.96 Lindor was a year younger than Dubon during his time in Adv A. [...] Similar body type? In the sense that both have two arms and two legs, yes. Dubon is 6', 160 (and looked like a sleek high school sophomore when I saw him last week), Lindor was 5'11" 170 when drafted and is at least 190 now (and looks chiseled in pictures). I stated them as having similar body types not a carbon copy. Is it not out of the realm of possibility should Dubon employ himself in the gym as maybe Lindor has to expect him to be possibly 180? And as for the stats. What say you of them?
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 27, 2016 6:03:41 GMT -5
I think that it's safe to sa that Benny Baseball has adjusted to the AA level of play: His June line 11 Ks for 9 BBs and 12 XBH. That's basicaly what he's been doing all through the low minors. Boy, I'm gonna miss him when he's traded and I'll blame Buchholz for that. This team can not mortgage its future for the possible chance at a playoff spot. They need two starters, a LF, two bullpen arms and a bench. You would have to clean out the top tier of the farm system to address some of those holes.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 27, 2016 6:27:41 GMT -5
I think that it's safe to sa that Benny Baseball has adjusted to the AA level of play: His June line 11 Ks for 9 BBs and 12 XBH. That's basicaly what he's been doing all through the low minors. Boy, I'm gonna miss him when he's traded and I'll blame Buchholz for that. This team can not mortgage its future for the possible chance at a playoff spot. They need two starters, a LF, two bullpen arms and a bench. You would have to clean out the top tier of the farm system to address some of those holes. Exactly. We have too many holes to fix without gutting the system. I do think we will have an adequate bench...but the rest I agree on. There is no certifiable help within on the immediate horizon....We'll probably be an 85 or so win team..beating up on the little guys. Next year Smith will be back and adding a couple of more relievers then ( Koji gone) should put us in good shape. Maybe Buch has some value in the trade market...change of scenery type but I think he is in such a deep rut with us he can't climb out. Porcello is pretty steady and E-Rod will continue to advance (where are his secondaries?). I guess we are stuck with Price....still have no ace. But imagine gutting the system and not winning this year?... I'd be more than willing to take my lumps now in favor of patience and a better future.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jun 27, 2016 7:22:35 GMT -5
This team can not mortgage its future for the possible chance at a playoff spot. They need two starters, a LF, two bullpen arms and a bench. You would have to clean out the top tier of the farm system to address some of those holes. Exactly. We have too many holes to fix without gutting the system. I do think we will have an adequate bench...but the rest I agree on. There is no certifiable help within on the immediate horizon....We'll probably be an 85 or so win team..beating up on the little guys. Next year Smith will be back and adding a couple of more relievers then ( Koji gone) should put us in good shape. Maybe Buch has some value in the trade market...change of scenery type but I think he is in such a deep rut with us he can't climb out. Porcello is pretty steady and E-Rod will continue to advance (where are his secondaries?). I guess we are stuck with Price....still have no ace. But imagine gutting the system and not winning this year?... I'd be more than willing to take my lumps now in favor of patience and a better future. Sarasoxer is TOTALLY correct. The signs, sadly, do not point towards Big Papi riding off with a World Championship, and DD and everyone needs to be rational. Look at this current season as one in which the Killer B's became stars and build on to it. When you have this many "holes", where do you begin? Trading any of our top 5 would be ridiculous. Hopefully the front office does the following: 1) sign Jason Groome 2) move Swihart back to catcher, when he is ready, to work on his weaknesses 3) develop Moncada and Benintendi to be close to ready my mid-season next year 4) see what you have in Shaw and Hanley and make decisions accordingly this winter 5) don't panic and do something stupid that you will regret for the next 5 to 8 years There are some good "bones" to the roster, but those bones need to get a lot stronger (and less brittle).
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Post by trotfan on Jun 27, 2016 7:26:05 GMT -5
No you don't even think of Making a Bagwell Trade with Benny or Moncada or even Devers the kid is just scratching it ..But it's not that bad ...A true number 2 starter a solid reliever and a LF may not break the system if your willing to take on a nasty contract ...the time may be now to cash in on two veterans who would bring back a significant return.. Pedey ,Hanley ,Bucky,Kojii,Taz all can't be traded but a combo of one and a lottery ticket may land you a significant upgrade over what the team has ...leave our Kids Alone !!!!
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 27, 2016 7:52:20 GMT -5
Not to go backwards but just catching up, Shaughnessy really is a class act when responding to readers. At least ones who send thoughtful emails. Also, he's a true Boston sports fan and writes passionately. Yea, he can get snarky and douchy in his writing but he also recognizes greatness and will acknowledge it. It's not as if he's endlessly negative and that's all he's got. The other thing is, he's big into high school sports and other local sports for the purity of the games. When he writes those articles (look up the one he wrote about his daughters last high school game) they are brilliant. I think the selfish, ungrateful and pompous attitudes of many highly paid athletes gets to him and he doesn't hold back on them, even getting antagonistic. However, when you have guys like Pedey and Pedey (ha) who are hard working and respectful he's more than fair to them and even puts them on a pedestal. He writes from the heart - remember he's a columnist not a journalist.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jun 27, 2016 8:09:18 GMT -5
I mentioned it in the trade proposal subforum, but it might be time to give Pat Light another chance - only, you know, a real one. He's shown great improvement over last month, a WHIP under 1, K/9 >9. Before they go trading him + more talent for Vizcaino, I'd like to see him get a legit chance at breaking in. He's the shortest route to a power righty with control problems they have.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 27, 2016 8:46:00 GMT -5
No you don't even think of Making a Bagwell Trade with Benny or Moncada or even Devers the kid is just scratching it ..But it's not that bad ...A true number 2 starter a solid reliever and a LF may not break the system if your willing to take on a nasty contract ...the time may be now to cash in on two veterans who would bring back a significant return.. Pedey ,Hanley ,Bucky,Kojii,Taz all can't be traded but a combo of one and a lottery ticket may land you a significant upgrade over what the team has ...leave our Kids Alone !!!! If there's a team willing to take on one these vets, or just plain thinks they can help with their playoff push, they aren't giving us back a solid starter. That would weaken their team as they acquire marginal veteran talent to make a push for the playoffs. It does not make sense. Pedey is going nowhere.
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 27, 2016 9:13:04 GMT -5
Neftali Feliz is a name to keep in the back of our minds. Seems to be having a bit of a renaissance in terms of stuff and results. Only a rental so he shouldn't cost nearly as much as someone like Vizcaino. Pirates haven't come to grips with being sellers yet, but they will.
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Post by cto94 on Jun 27, 2016 9:44:47 GMT -5
Can we acknowledge how absurd it is that anyone is already bailing on Eduardo Rodriguez as even being a potentially decent starter this year? The guy is 23 and missed all of spring training and has been back for all of 3 starts...little soon to be throwing him in the mix with Clay Buchholz, no? Honestly with Holt back in left, Eduardo finding his form a little bit, and the addition of one solid bullpen arm, there's no reason to believe that what we've been seeing recently will hold up for the rest of the year. It's a long season- every team has ups and downs, but if you take a step back, we still have the best offense in the league, we have Price, Wright and Porcello, who have all been pretty good, with the exception of Price's last start and his early season hiccups, and Rodriguez, who should round into form as the season goes on. If we can't find a viable number 5 guy out of Kelly, Clay, or the system (and admittedly, none of them look particularly appealing right now) then maybe we go to the trade market, but there's little reason to believe that we'd be dealing a top prospect to acquire a no. 5 starter. Kinda makes one wish we could undo the Miley deal right now, but life goes on
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 27, 2016 9:48:59 GMT -5
He's going to tear this organization apart from the inside out. Dombrowski has a contempt for prospects that is rare in this day an That is pretty strong. He held onto Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Shaw, Swihart, Travis, Vasquez as well as Barnes, Hembree, Johnson, Light, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Varvaro and recently intimated that current top prospects (likely Benintendi, Devers, Moncada, and Espinoza, Kopech) are too costly for what is currently available in trade. He seems at least as interested in sustained success (by hanging on to and acquiring future game changers ... like Groome) as with Expos and Marlins, as he was in trading prospects to win now for an aging owner in Detroit. This Farm system is truly deep enough to trade for 2016 Reinforcements without sacrificing the future. Now that he held onto future core at C, 2b, 3B, SS, CF, RF, he does have room to maneuver to meet legitimate current needs; and has been careful in developing, evaluating, and showcasing team assetts. He seems neither reckless nor ruthless, nor a hoarder of redundant depth. I disagree. Benintendi, Moncada, Espinoza, Devers and the pitchers all fill team needs. You're not trading excess parts if you're trading for a top pitcher this year - you're mortgaging the future. Period.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 27, 2016 9:57:51 GMT -5
We really need a "serviceable" number 5 and a "serviceable" LHH LF. I believe we have enough BP depth in the system. I hate to say it, but CV could be traded for a P or LF. With Hanny coming back, Hanny & Sandy could hold down the C position 50/50 until Swihart gets back on his feet. It doesn't help that CV is hitting .200 ish.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 27, 2016 10:11:52 GMT -5
41 of the Sox last 63 games are on the road. Run any kind of legit analytics for win probabilities for this teams vs. those teams you like. Sox as currently constructed will, at best, finish just above .500 in those away games; more likely somewhere south of .470. Fangraphs projects the Red Sox to go .547 the rest of the way, which is the highest projected rest-of-season record of any AL team ( link). The heavy slate of road games is balanced by the fact that they have a relatively easy strength of schedule the rest of the way (they've played the second-hardest schedule in the AL to date (including a lot of divisional games against the Blue Jays and Orioles) but have the fifth-easiest schedule going forward ( link)). Well, here comes a nice small sample to means test the "strength of schedule" theory, which I have long disputed for a variety of reasons, not the least of which team play can often be quite dynamic over short stretches (see the Braves recent games vs. the Mets), a quality starting pitcher (or two) on the "weak" team can be encountered, and - perhaps germane to this particular discussion - one's own team could be experiencing a funk/regression. All that said, here is Tampa, losers of 11 straight. Sox should at minimum take 2 and reasonably, given their Fangraphs projection as the best AL team for the rest of the way, all three. Yes?
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Post by thegoo13 on Jun 27, 2016 10:16:49 GMT -5
If the season ended today Boston is the top wildcard team. This after playing overall poor baseball for the last 10 days or so. The sky is not falling. There is absolutely no reason to trade any of the big 4, hopefully soon to be big 5 in this system. Look at Baltimore's staff. Yankees. Houston, KC, etc. On paper are they any better than ours? It's a marathon not a sprint. IMO, my only move I consider right now, is firing JF and riding this season out with TL instead. JF has had plenty of time to prove himself here and in Toronto and aside from the year he replaced the a$$ clown that was BV he has just proven he doesn't win. The team played better for TL last year.
RS will make a deadline trade probably, but it will involve secondary pieces for a BP arm maybe.
Totally random here, but IMO Chavis is way undervalued on this site. The improvement he has made in one off-season is impressive. The power is legit and looks like he might not struggle to make contact.
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Post by jmei on Jun 27, 2016 10:24:02 GMT -5
I mentioned it in the trade proposal subforum, but it might be time to give Pat Light another chance - only, you know, a real one. He's shown great improvement over last month, a WHIP under 1, K/9 >9. Before they go trading him + more talent for Vizcaino, I'd like to see him get a legit chance at breaking in. He's the shortest route to a power righty with control problems they have. Light has thrown all of 9.2 innings in the last month, which is so small of a sample that to draw even the most tentative conclusions based on stuff like WHIP or K/BB per 9 is probably a bad idea.
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Post by jmei on Jun 27, 2016 10:24:19 GMT -5
More generally, I think the concern over the bullpen is a little overwrought. Kimbrel is still one of the better relievers in the league, Tazawa is a fine (if middle-of-the-pack) setup man, Uehara's peripherals are still elite (seventh-best strikeout rate in the league among relievers, 2.34 SIERA) and despite the increasing susceptibility to home runs, he's still at least an above-average reliever, Ross has been excellent against both righties and lefties, and Hembree has been elite versus RHH (2.10 FIP this year; 3.16 FIP career). Those five guys form the core of an above-average bullpen. Fangraphs, for instance, projects them as the third-best bullpen in the league going forward. Even if you think their Uehara projection is a little bullish, it's still top half of the league. That's not to say that they can't or shouldn't improve the bullpen, but I think it's an exaggeration to say that the bullpen is the weakest part of their team. LF, fourth/fifth starter, and 3B/1B are much bigger needs in my mind, and I think the value proposition of upgrading those spots is much better compared to the bullpen. My sense (not based on any data) is that, because pretty much every team could use a bullpen upgrade at the deadline, relievers are among the most expensive players to acquire at the deadline. Plus, there are non-acquisition moves they can make to improve the bullpen. For instance, the coaching staff/front office could stop deluding themselves into thinking Matt Barnes is one of their better relievers (despite the velocity, he isn't-- struggles with command and control). Or they could upgrade Layne's spot in the bullpen with someone who might be able to provide more length (Martin, Light, maybe even Kelly).
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