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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 19:51:50 GMT -5
Clay had such a gutsy 2013 postseason, he was evidently injured and had absolutely nothing in every game that he pitched. But he gutted it out, kept the team in the game and the Red Sox went 3-1 with him as the starter. Some key starts at that, it reminded me a bit of Pedro in 1999. Obviously he wasn't as good, but he was as injured and as tough. Great memories with him. I think it might be time for a change of scenery for him though. Not overreacting to one bad start against the Rockies, but his career with the Red Sox has been so erratic and wonky that maybe it's time to try and find success elsewhere. If he had the luck he had today in that game in 2013, he would have given up about 12 runs in the first inning, depending on how long they left him in.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 19:52:54 GMT -5
I do think you both have fair points. People are unreasonably hard on Buchholz but also I think I'm just about reached the point I'm done with him and he can't help us anymore. I'd rather have Elias going forward. Yeah. He grooved those pitches to Story and Garneau for HRs. But the four GBs that found holes for singles were bad luck. The 0 LOB in his line so far is bad luck. Story also swung at and fouled off at least 4 great pitches that were out of the strike zone before his.
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Post by bosox89 on May 26, 2016 19:52:59 GMT -5
Look at that horrible pitching on that Gonzalez IF hit. I bet it was the first IF hit to SS he has hit in his career.
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Post by kingofthetrill on May 26, 2016 19:57:40 GMT -5
This is a 162 game season and we have lost 17 other games this season and will lose plenty more in the coming months. I swear that some people need to be put on suicide watch if the Sox look like they are going to lose a game. I feel like this is the most positive place and the most negative place, often at the same time.
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Post by bosox81 on May 26, 2016 19:57:47 GMT -5
Yeah. He grooved those pitches to Story and Garneau for HRs. But the four GBs that found holes for singles were bad luck. The 0 LOB in his line so far is bad luck. Story also swung at and fouled off at least 4 great pitches that were out of the strike zone before his. It happens to every pitcher.
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Post by soxfan06 on May 26, 2016 19:58:02 GMT -5
Why are we making Jon Gray of all pitches look like an ace?
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 19:58:42 GMT -5
Story also swung at and fouled off at least 4 great pitches that were out of the strike zone before his. It happens to every pitcher. Yep, and they escape criticism if the fans are reasonable.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 19:59:17 GMT -5
Why are we making Jon Gray of all pitches look like an ace? Because he is getting a bunch of 400 foot outs? And that last out on a rocket by Shaw. wtf
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 26, 2016 20:01:10 GMT -5
I have the impression that Hanley has been slumping lately, I didn't check the numbers but it looks to me that way. I still think he's playing hurt.
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Post by Costigan on May 26, 2016 20:01:28 GMT -5
Why are we making Jon Gray of all pitches look like an ace? Gray is actually a really good pitcher..
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atzar
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Post by atzar on May 26, 2016 20:03:41 GMT -5
Why are we making Jon Gray of all pitches look like an ace? 2.59 FIP. He's a good pitcher.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 20:05:29 GMT -5
Jesus, another infield hit.
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Post by braziliansox on May 26, 2016 20:07:26 GMT -5
Big of you to admit that was a mistake. Is there any pitcher who gives up a home run on every pitch that isn't perfect? You're trying to sound smart but your argument that all but 3 of His pitches were "perfect" is even more ridiculous than saying "he sucks" or something like that.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 20:08:10 GMT -5
Is there any pitcher who gives up a home run on every pitch that isn't perfect? You're trying to sound smart but your argument that all but 3 of His pitches were "perfect" is even more ridiculous than saying "he sucks" or something like that. Try finding another game where a team has 6 runs and 1 LOB (which came after he was out of the game).
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 26, 2016 20:08:20 GMT -5
Here's a question for the amateur shrinks who are pushing the "CB is gutless" meme: How do you know that? Have you considered the possibility that maybe he's just not a very good P at this point and guts have nothing to do with it? You say that when something goes wrong, things snowball on him. Giving up big innings is exactly what ineffective, high-ERA pitchers do.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 20:12:27 GMT -5
Here's a question for the amateur shrinks who are pushing the "CB is gutless" meme: How do you know that? Have you considered the possibility that maybe he's just not a very good P at this point and guts have nothing to do with it? You say that when something goes wrong, things snowball on him. Giving up big innings is exactly what ineffective, high-ERA pitchers do. His stuff was actually very good tonight, maybe the best it was all year. If he threw like that every night, we'd be quite happy, unless the only thing you look at is results and you're unable to judge how well a pitcher is pitching.
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Post by braziliansox on May 26, 2016 20:14:40 GMT -5
You're trying to sound smart but your argument that all but 3 of His pitches were "perfect" is even more ridiculous than saying "he sucks" or something like that. Try finding another game where a team has 6 runs and 1 LOB (which came after he was out of the game). You're assuming every mistake gets hit, which is just wrong.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on May 26, 2016 20:16:49 GMT -5
Here's a question for the amateur shrinks who are pushing the "CB is gutless" meme: How do you know that? Have you considered the possibility that maybe he's just not a very good P at this point and guts have nothing to do with it? You say that when something goes wrong, things snowball on him. Giving up big innings is exactly what ineffective, high-ERA pitchers do. Agree. Unfortunately the peripherals say he's a bad pitcher at this point. Ks are down, BBs are way up, LOB% is low but not unusually so, GB% is WAY down, BABIP is actually lower than his career average. All of this points to a bad pitcher who isn't due for much in the way of positive regression. But I don't buy the 'mentally soft', 'headcase' labels.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 20:17:05 GMT -5
Try finding another game where a team has 6 runs and 1 LOB (which came after he was out of the game). You're assuming every mistake gets hit, which is just wrong. Almost every mistake was a HR tonight.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 26, 2016 20:19:07 GMT -5
Here's a question for the amateur shrinks who are pushing the "CB is gutless" meme: How do you know that? Have you considered the possibility that maybe he's just not a very good P at this point and guts have nothing to do with it? You say that when something goes wrong, things snowball on him. Giving up big innings is exactly what ineffective, high-ERA pitchers do. His stuff was actually very good tonight, maybe the best it was all year. If he threw like that every night, we'd be quite happy, unless the only thing you look at is results and you're unable to judge how well a pitcher is pitching. I agree with that. Another crowd that would be unhappy with it would be those who look at bad results and go into a default rant about how results are in direct proportion to guts.
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Post by braziliansox on May 26, 2016 20:20:25 GMT -5
You're assuming every mistake gets hit, which is just wrong. Almost every mistake was a HR tonight. Its funny that you call people out for reacting to results when your definition of non perfect pitches is result based as well.
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Post by jimed14 on May 26, 2016 20:21:39 GMT -5
Almost every mistake was a HR tonight. Its funny that you call people out for reacting to results when your definition of non perfect pitches is result based as well. Gray just threw a pitch that could not have been more right down the middle of the plate thigh high, which Vazquez whiffed on. I watched Buchholz paint the corners all game except for a few pitches.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 26, 2016 20:24:58 GMT -5
Its funny that you call people out for reacting to results when your definition of non perfect pitches is result based as well. Gray just threw a pitch that could not have been more right down the middle of the plate thigh high, which Vazquez whiffed on. I watched Buchholz paint the corners all game except for a few pitches. Those misses all came though when he had runners on. Maybe it is bad luck, but as the season goes on and his splits are this horrendous it gets harder and harder to believe that it's entirely bad luck that his misses come with runners on. To be clear though I'm not saying he's a headcase or anything like that, I don't believe that and don't think that's fair to comment on. I think something mechanically or pitch selection wise might be going on.
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Post by braziliansox on May 26, 2016 20:26:13 GMT -5
Its funny that you call people out for reacting to results when your definition of non perfect pitches is result based as well. Gray just threw a pitch that could not have been more right down the middle of the plate thigh high, which Vazquez whiffed on. I watched Buchholz paint the corners all game except for a few pitches. Gray also throws 96 with a nasty slider, that helps getting away with mistakes.
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Post by Guidas on May 26, 2016 20:26:37 GMT -5
Bad luck aside, no runs since the first inningis just frustrating to watch. Just waiting for JBJ at this point.
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