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Red Sox agree to trade for Joel Hanrahan
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 22, 2012 18:35:30 GMT -5
Seems unlikely, but any one think that Saltalamacchia could be one of the extra pieces? They could use him at 1st base and move Garrett Jones to the OF permanently. Seems unlikely. Saltalamacchia's main value is that he has more pop than most catchers. He's below average offensively for a first baseman. The power might play up some more if he didn't have the wear and tear of catching, but it's hard to take a sub-.300 OBP at a premium offensive position. In 198 innings over the last three years, Hanrahan has a 2.73 ERA, 226 K's, and only 78 walks (about 3.5 per nine). It's hard to tell with relievers whether single-season regressions are signs of decline or just small sample-related noise. Hanrahan's walk rate was too high this year, but he balanced it with a great strikeout rate, and he has really good fastball. That fastball dropped from 97.1 to 95.9 this year, but that's still excellent. He's a strict two-pitch fastball/slider type, traditional bullpen right who keeps it simple and puts people away with power stuff. Here's my bit of idle speculation: It seems like a lot of people think Bailey might be dealt now, though I'm unsure. I'd guess that his value would be at an all time low, though it takes only one GM to disagree. I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see Hanrahan flipped instead. I think that we stick with both Bailey and Hanrahan and hope that one, or both, come thru. There are warts on each but the pen is looking like a potential (maybe the potential) team strong point. Bailey has to have lower value than when we acquired him so I don't see him going anywhere and if he did, we would pick up flotsam To me entering 2013 he is just another cog. ....and I doubt that we traded 4 guys just to flip Hanrahan. IMO this is, again, "adding quality depth" and planning thereby for contingencies (of which we had many in 2012). We have starters that are suspect going deep into games. Therefore, we need a top-notch well-manned bullpen to compensate. To me, that is the theme here. IMO, Salty (and Aceves) will not be on the team if anywhere near suitable deals can be worked out...The Sox are preferring defense team wide and for catcher...game calling. IMO Aceves is a talented but 'spit the bit' temperamental player...not of championship make-up when things get tough.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 19:47:41 GMT -5
apparently we didn't learn anything from last year. weiland and lowrie for melancon. alcantara, reddick, and head for sweeney and bailey. sweeney was non-tendered last year and melancon and bailey each posted ERA's of over 6.
hanrahan is good, but his walk rate was 5.4/9 IP. he had a whopping 1.2/9 hr rate in the NL East. that will go through the roof in the AL east. relief pitchers flame out all the time and they come and go. i would not be surprised if hanrahan posted an ERA over 6 next year. so now, assuming bard returns to from, we have aceves, tazawa, bailey, bard, hanrahan, uehara, morales, miller, breslow, and mortensen in the bullpen. that is way to many relievers. so you need to select three of these guys to not be on the MLB team next year.
i don't think pimentel will amount to anything, but i really like sands and i think he has .280 and 20 hr potential. hanrahan better be worth it. dont be surprised if he flames out though.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 22, 2012 20:00:43 GMT -5
Need to see the rest of the pieces of the trade (Mortensen? AAA IF?) but thus looks like a good get for the Red Sox, taking on a short term salary for pieces that didn't fit the roster. Most folks on this site had Stolmy pegged as a likely trade candidate. I wish him good luck in Pitt.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 22, 2012 20:06:41 GMT -5
This is about freeing up 40 man spots for this season and next. Next year's class of rule 5 eligible players has 7 players that should be added, like Bogaerts, Brentz, Ranaudo, etc
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 22, 2012 20:21:12 GMT -5
apparently we didn't learn anything from last year. weiland and lowrie for melancon. alcantara, reddick, and head for sweeney and bailey. sweeney was non-tendered last year and melancon and bailey each posted ERA's of over 6. hanrahan is good, but his walk rate was 5.4/9 IP. he had a whopping 1.2/9 hr rate in the NL East. that will go through the roof in the AL east. relief pitchers flame out all the time and they come and go. i would not be surprised if hanrahan posted an ERA over 6 next year. so now, assuming bard returns to from, we have aceves, tazawa, bailey, bard, hanrahan, uehara, morales, miller, breslow, and mortensen in the bullpen. that is way to many relievers. so you need to select three of these guys to not be on the MLB team next year. i don't think pimentel will amount to anything, but i really like sands and i think he has .280 and 20 hr potential. hanrahan better be worth it. dont be surprised if he flames out though. And? He had a .13 HR/9 the season before that. Single season HR totals for relievers aren't predictive, and this past season was a clear outlier, it's not who he's been for his entire career. The walk rate is the alarming element, I could care less about the home runs in 60 innings.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Dec 22, 2012 20:25:32 GMT -5
I was pretty skeptical about the trade in a vacuum, but so far the price seems to be right ... reserving judgment pending the other two players, but this is a guy who may help solidify the back of the bullpen for what don't amount to much more than spare parts. I suppose there's some chance Jerry Sands can put it together, but the relatively small chance of that happening gives him pretty low value, same with Stolmy.
Sure, Hanrahan's walk rate is a concern, but if it weren't, he'd be more expensive to get.
I'll miss Stolmy Pimentel's name, tho ... great name.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2012 20:31:29 GMT -5
I'm a little confused about this. Is this deal finalized as Sands and Pimental for Hanrahan? Or will this eventually be a four for two deal that we've heard about? Have they stalemated on the other three players and decided to cut the deal to just the three known players?
I think Sands will be a better player than he's being talked about. I realize his numbers were inflated playing in the PCL, but I like that he was a patient hitter at the plate and I think he'll serve the Pirates well.
I think he could have helped the Sox, and for a lot cheaper than Gomes, but once they spent the money and committed the two years to Gomes, it made Sands very expendable.
I don't think Pimental will be a loss - I'm not really bullish on his ability to be anything more than a reliever at the major league level - if that.
The Sox did well to get Hanrahan for what they gave up. I'm not ready to write off his HRs served up so easily and I do think because of his wildness he'll struggle as the closer which makes me wonder what the Sox are going to do with Bailey. Do they already have a deal lined up? Does Alex Anthropoulis have any more young talent he'd be willing to throw our way?
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 22, 2012 20:49:18 GMT -5
I was pretty skeptical about the trade in a vacuum, but so far the price seems to be right ... reserving judgment pending the other two players, but this is a guy who may help solidify the back of the bullpen for what don't amount to much more than spare parts. I suppose there's some chance Jerry Sands can put it together, but the relatively small chance of that happening gives him pretty low value, same with Stolmy. Sure, Hanrahan's walk rate is a concern, but if it weren't, he'd be more expensive to get.
I'll miss Stolmy Pimentel's name, tho ... great name. Not to worry, brian, the Sox have that issue covered. They have a pitcher in the DSL named Yankory Pimentel. Now, clearly, Yankory sounds a little too much like a ML team 200 miles south, but, you know, it doesn't take much in the DR to get your name changed.
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Post by ctscott on Dec 22, 2012 20:58:11 GMT -5
Depending on the other pieces of the deal, I think this is a really good one for the Sox. Very often, relievers command a heck of a lot more at the trading deadline than during the offseason, so this might be a move to get Bard and Bailey back on track and a July trade of Hanrahan. Solves some of the 40-man crunch, brings in a possible high-leverage reliever, and is not a long-term commitment. I really was excited for Sands, but I don't think he was going to get much of a shot. Good luck to him. I'd be astonished if Pimental pans out to be anything whatsoever.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 22, 2012 21:14:05 GMT -5
Espn Boston speculates that Melancon may be a third player traded.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 21:24:00 GMT -5
Espn Boston speculates that Melancon may be a third player traded. While he pitched better at the end of the season, I feel like Melancon and Bailey are kind of repeatative. It also makes me wonder if the 2nd player coming back from Pitt, is a 4th OF or something. If Bard could somehow regain his 2011 form the Red Sox are gunna have a hell of a bullpen, which is a bigger deal then people have been making it out to be..
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Post by remember04 on Dec 22, 2012 21:41:52 GMT -5
Espn Boston speculates that Melancon may be a third player traded. While he pitched better at the end of the season, I feel like Melancon and Bailey are kind of repeatative. It also makes me wonder if the 2nd player coming back from Pitt, is a 4th OF or something. If Bard could somehow regain his 2011 form the Red Sox are gunna have a hell of a bullpen, which is a bigger deal then people have been making it out to be.. The best bullpen in the game is worthless if you're down by three by the time you see your first reliever enter the game.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 21:53:09 GMT -5
While he pitched better at the end of the season, I feel like Melancon and Bailey are kind of repeatative. It also makes me wonder if the 2nd player coming back from Pitt, is a 4th OF or something. If Bard could somehow regain his 2011 form the Red Sox are gunna have a hell of a bullpen, which is a bigger deal then people have been making it out to be.. The best bullpen in the game is worthless if you're down by three by the time you see your first reliever enter the game. Thats absolutely false. With the offense the Red Sox are likely to have they will still be in games. How many times last year did the bullpen turn a 1 or 2 run game into a 5 or 6 run game. A good bullpen not only can keep the lead but they can keep you in every game and with a good offense that is extremely valuable.
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Post by jmei on Dec 22, 2012 23:28:09 GMT -5
Espn Boston speculates that Melancon may be a third player traded. I hope this is not the case. Melancon had a bad 2012, but his peripherals were very solid (3.45 xFIP in 2012, 3.52 career) and he won't be free agent eligible until after 2016. Plus, I almost always think trades motivated by some vague personality trait (here, "can't handle pressure") are bad ideas. Melancon has pretty great stuff and has the rare ability to sustain above-average strikeout, walk, and ground ball rates. It would be stupid to give up on him on the basis of one bad month (37.59 FIP in April, FIPs from June-September were 2.96, 3.50, 4.17, 1.09) and trade him for a one-year rental of a reliever who has been no better over the past three years (by xFIP, last three years-- Melancon: 3.30, Hanrahan: 3.25). My speculation: will end up as Sands, Pimentel, Mortensen, and a low-level lottery ticket type (Mookie Betts, Williams Jerez, Alixon Suarez, etc.) for Hanrahan and an org-player type. There's a reason the other players haven't been named yet-- because they don't matter very much and each team is probably picking from a list of fringy guys.
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Post by jmei on Dec 22, 2012 23:42:18 GMT -5
Caveat: if Garrett Jones is the other player coming from Pittsburgh, including Melancon in the deal might be reasonable. But even then, I'd rather they keep Melancon and Sands, mismatching platoon splits and all.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 22, 2012 23:45:16 GMT -5
Caveat: if Garrett Jones is the other player coming from Pittsburgh, including Melancon in the deal might be reasonable. But even then, I'd rather they keep Melancon and Sands, mismatching platoon splits and all. IMO this trade either means, there is another bigger trade comming and they need the 40 man space. or that napoli deal is finished, and they need two 40 man spaces to finish announcing theire signees
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Post by Jim Crowell on Dec 23, 2012 8:33:58 GMT -5
Garrett Jones is a career .279/.348/.504 hitter against RHP and only .198/.237/.353 against LHP. He'd complement Gomes very well in a LF platoon (.284/.382/.512 against LHP)
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Dec 23, 2012 9:00:04 GMT -5
apparently we didn't learn anything from last year. weiland and lowrie for melancon. alcantara, reddick, and head for sweeney and bailey. sweeney was non-tendered last year and melancon and bailey each posted ERA's of over 6. hanrahan is good, but his walk rate was 5.4/9 IP. he had a whopping 1.2/9 hr rate in the NL East. that will go through the roof in the AL east. relief pitchers flame out all the time and they come and go. i would not be surprised if hanrahan posted an ERA over 6 next year. so now, assuming bard returns to from, we have aceves, tazawa, bailey, bard, hanrahan, uehara, morales, miller, breslow, and mortensen in the bullpen. that is way to many relievers. so you need to select three of these guys to not be on the MLB team next year. i don't think pimentel will amount to anything, but i really like sands and i think he has .280 and 20 hr potential. hanrahan better be worth it. dont be surprised if he flames out though. Pittsburgh is in the NL Central. One great hitting park after another; Wrigley, Cincy, Milwaukee and St. Louis. I thought Bailey looked like a fat toad by the end of the year. Have no confidence he can pitch a full season. Melancon??? Please. No-brainer picking Hammer up.
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Post by soxcentral on Dec 23, 2012 9:59:54 GMT -5
If your strategy is to protect your long-term interests while filling the short-term with low-cost upgrades to give you a shot to compete, then what better area to build up than the bullpen? The '02 Angels and last year's Reds, among others, have shown that a deep and reliable bullpen can anchor a non-dominant team's run to a successful season.
We all know the volatility relievers have year to year, so having 5 or 6 prospective arms for the back end allows us to see which 3 (hopefully) look good in 2013 and ride them. In the unlikely case that most or all (Bailey, Hanrahan, Melancon, Tazawa, Bard, Aceves) look strong then we deal from strength at a later date, most likely getting more back than we would now.
I'd take those 6 righties plus 2 out of Miller/Breslow/Morales for my pen to start the year, keep Rubby in the rotation and look to Wilson/Carpenter/etc for injury depth when needed.
EDIT: Forgot Uehara.....barring any changes I think that puts Bard in position to show he's re-discovered his command in ST or AAA awaits.
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Post by welovewally on Dec 23, 2012 10:25:29 GMT -5
Pittsburgh only signed Russell Martin to 2 yrs. Could the Sox possibly be including a Catcher to give them depth? Butler?
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Post by charliezink16 on Dec 23, 2012 10:57:40 GMT -5
Pittsburgh only signed Russell Martin to 2 yrs. Could the Sox possibly be including a Catcher to give them depth? Butler? Well they still have Michael McKenry, and Tony Sanchez is knocking on the door of the MLB. Sanchez, a defensive first catcher who hits better and has a higher ceiling, negates any value of having Dan Butler IMO, but we'll see.
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Post by buffs4444 on Dec 23, 2012 11:59:36 GMT -5
Seems like the other player coming back could be someone of note like a Jones. Off topic, Melancon should bounce back nicely and be closing by mid-season at the latest in Pittsburgh.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 23, 2012 12:26:10 GMT -5
@jonheymancbs Word is, still some discussion about final player or 2 in hanrahan deal. Not expected to derail it, but may delay past xmas
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2012 12:32:07 GMT -5
Not that Melancon was any great shakes last year. He was brutal in April, but I think he might wind up being a better pitcher than Hanrahan over the next few years, and might be a better pitcher in 2013.
I hope the Sox do well in the remaining 1 for 1 swap or are able to create an advantageous deal out of Bailey or whatever, because I'm not sure I'm seeing a major upgrade in losing a controllable reliever who's better than he was last year and a serviceable outfielder in Sands while the Sox pay extra $ for Hanrahan and Gomes respectively.
Moneyball, this isn't. I just don't see a $10 - $12 million major upgrade between going from Sands to Gomes and from going to Melancon to Hanrahan going forward.
And as it turned out giving Victorino $39 million compared to the $25 million for Ross hardly seems like a bargain either.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Dec 23, 2012 12:42:34 GMT -5
;;' Melancon had the opportunity to win the closing job last year. He melted down in front of our very eyes and had to be demoted to AAA. Hanrahan has 76 saves in two years and had 100k's in 69 innings the year before that. Melancon might be better?? Really
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