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Post by jbuttah on Jun 17, 2016 23:55:49 GMT -5
So you buy the rumor that a $5M deal was agreed upon, even after agreeing to go overslot with Quantrill? That requires one of the following (or some combo of the following): - Extreme senior signs on their other 1st round pick, their 2nd round pick, and their other 2nd or 3rd round pick. Keep in mind that these bonuses would need to be so low that if the players did not sign, the Padres would not be compensated for these picks in the future. These strategy has never been done before. - Extreme senior sign on their other 1st round pick and all picks from 3-10 - Extreme senior sign on both 2nd round picks and rounds 3-10. Sure these possibilities are all technically feasible, but we've literally never seen a team sacrifice so much for one player. The only scenarios in which we've seen a player go 2-3M overslot is when that team's first pick in the draft comes in significantly underslot. I'm not buying that a 5M deal was agreed upon. Perhaps there was discussion. Perhaps the negotiations from the agent began at 5M. Perhaps by the time the Sox selected, negotiations were ongoing but not agreed upon, and the agent was holding onto a 5M demand. I find it highly, highly unlikely that the Padres agreed to that though. I mean Groome's agent has a soulpatch in 2016 for crying out loud....we should trust this guy? I buy the reports, actually makes a ton of sense. Padres had a huge draft pool and could rather easily give him 5 million and with his talent it would be well worth it. If the Red Sox were in the Padres shoes, I'd be pretty happy if they came out of the draft with 5 of the top 71 choices with one being Groome, which seems doable going with senior signs for rounds 3-10 and including the 5% overage.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 18, 2016 18:23:42 GMT -5
I buy the reports, actually makes a ton of sense. Padres had a huge draft pool and could rather easily give him 5 million and with his talent it would be well worth it. If the Red Sox were in the Padres shoes, I'd be pretty happy if they came out of the draft with 5 of the top 71 choices with one being Groome, which seems doable going with senior signs for rounds 3-10 and including the 5% overage. Still trying to figure out why San Diego made some questionable draft choices this year.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jun 18, 2016 19:43:36 GMT -5
It just sticks in my mind that Callis said he thought Groome would drop to #24 due to "lots of maturity issues" in the podcast. For a guy who would have maybe gone #1 or 2 if he could just keep whatever maturity issues there were in check that is a huge flag. Callis would seem to have a good idea of the situation. I thought at first it was probably just asking for too much money but dropping to the number 24 slot? For as talented as he clearly was that would seem to be such a flag. It's still possibly mainly just the salary demands but phrasing it as "lots of maturity issues" is a flag to me.
This kid's dad worked like 80 hours a week if I remember correctly. He was obviously overwhelmed when they got the phone call. This is already more money than that family ever thought of and it already charges their life. I'm hoping it's just they didn't know how to handle that issue because it seems like they didn't at least so far. This is for real though. This kid has a chance to be great and make $200 mil. Now is the time to just cool it and get focused on the task at hand. Slow down. Not worry about the money quite so much but focus on getting better. Don't buy the Masserati. Put the money into stocks and live frugally and stay hungry. Grow up with hopefully someone he trusts to guide him. If I were his dad, I'd consider retiring temporarily and be his personal aide and yes, even his agent. There are standard contracts available and the Redsox will give him good treatment. Other players can show him their contracts. Saving a whole lot of money for him and considering the situation it's just more money in his family's pocket. Groome might benefit a lot from the support and confidence building someone like his dad can give to help him in this transition and my bet is the maturity issue is his biggest challenge. It's too important to screw up and he is very young.
This kid isn't done growing. Physically or mentally probably. It's too risky to take chances. He just won the lottery and we all know how many lottery winners blow it all in a short time. I'd bet his dad knows the value of hard work and the importance of it going forward for his son to realize his dreams.
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Post by gk2186 on Jun 27, 2016 13:55:23 GMT -5
From Gammons latest article. He claims that rumored deal had a higher number than previously reported. www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-winning-time-in-cleveland-elite-rotation-and-utilizing-the-new-draft-system/"New Jersey high school lefthander Jason Groome fell to 12th because his agent had a $6M deal promised from another Big Pool team if he could get him to a 20-something pick. The general managers of the teams trying to make the deals outside the system are under a great deal of pressure to rebuild, but with the labor agreement up at the end of the season, there will be a push for slots to include market size, possibly a set number for each pick and strict penalties such as a loss of a draft pick for the types of deals offered agents by the two National League teams involved."
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 27, 2016 14:28:29 GMT -5
If Groome elects not to sign in assumption he'll get 6M next time he's draft eligible, hes getting some bad advice. $2M isn't as important as his development is.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 27, 2016 14:30:25 GMT -5
He is still going to sign. He is not stupid
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Jun 27, 2016 15:10:31 GMT -5
From Gammons latest article. He claims that rumored deal had a higher number than previously reported. www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-winning-time-in-cleveland-elite-rotation-and-utilizing-the-new-draft-system/"New Jersey high school lefthander Jason Groome fell to 12th because his agent had a $6M deal promised from another Big Pool team if he could get him to a 20-something pick. The general managers of the teams trying to make the deals outside the system are under a great deal of pressure to rebuild, but with the labor agreement up at the end of the season, there will be a push for slots to include market size, possibly a set number for each pick and strict penalties such as a loss of a draft pick for the types of deals offered agents by the two National League teams involved." I am sick of the draft giving small markets such an advantage in the draft. I can understand major-league baseball creating a fair international draft. The Red Sox are taking a huge risk by drafting Groome. Since the new draft has been implemented, I see the smaller market teams doing just as well if not better than large market teams like the Yankees or Baltimore.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 27, 2016 15:23:15 GMT -5
Pint received $4.8mm (#4) Ray received $4.13mm (#5) Anderson received $4mm (#3) Quantrill received $3.96mm (#8) Manning received $3.5mm (#9) Gowdy received $3.5mm (#42) Collins received $3.38mm (#10) Whitley received $3.15mm (#17)
Once Braxton Garrett signs with MIA, Groome's advisor will have all the relevant data points to negotiate a deal. The bid/ask ($4.8mm vs. slot) is pretty clear, and the likely result ($4mm) is also pretty clear.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jun 27, 2016 15:54:19 GMT -5
Pint received $4.8mm (#4) Ray received $4.13mm (#5) Anderson received $4mm (#3) Quantrill received $3.96mm (#8) Manning received $3.5mm (#9) Gowdy received $3.5mm (#42) Collins received $3.38mm (#10) Whitley received $3.15mm (#17) Once Braxton Garrett signs with MIA, Groome's advisor will have all the relevant data points to negotiate a deal. The bid/ask ($4.8mm vs. slot) is pretty clear, and the likely result ($4mm) is also pretty clear. You think 4-4.2mm get the deal done?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2016 18:24:08 GMT -5
From Gammons latest article. He claims that rumored deal had a higher number than previously reported. www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-winning-time-in-cleveland-elite-rotation-and-utilizing-the-new-draft-system/"New Jersey high school lefthander Jason Groome fell to 12th because his agent had a $6M deal promised from another Big Pool team if he could get him to a 20-something pick. The general managers of the teams trying to make the deals outside the system are under a great deal of pressure to rebuild, but with the labor agreement up at the end of the season, there will be a push for slots to include market size, possibly a set number for each pick and strict penalties such as a loss of a draft pick for the types of deals offered agents by the two National League teams involved." I am sick of the draft giving small markets such an advantage in the draft. I can understand major-league baseball creating a fair international draft. The Red Sox are taking a huge risk by drafting Groome. Since the new draft has been implemented, I see the smaller market teams doing just as well if not better than large market teams like the Yankees or Baltimore. I don't even know what more advantage they need. It's not like small market teams aren't spending up to their caps. What is the problem?
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Post by sportnik on Jun 28, 2016 0:18:37 GMT -5
I'm getting fed up with the lengths MLB is going to tilt the playing field in favor of the small market clubs. It's not only unfair, but it can't be good for baseball to funnel a disproportionate number of their young stars to small markets. It's simply a stupid business move. This is Selig's legacy and if the small market teams keep pushing their luck, the big market teams will be well justified to revolt.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 28, 2016 10:49:02 GMT -5
Pint received $4.8mm (#4) Ray received $4.13mm (#5) Anderson received $4mm (#3) Quantrill received $3.96mm (#8) Manning received $3.5mm (#9) Gowdy received $3.5mm (#42) Collins received $3.38mm (#10) Whitley received $3.15mm (#17) Once Braxton Garrett signs with MIA, Groome's advisor will have all the relevant data points to negotiate a deal. The bid/ask ($4.8mm vs. slot) is pretty clear, and the likely result ($4mm) is also pretty clear. Yup
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 28, 2016 11:38:10 GMT -5
Pint received $4.8mm (#4) Ray received $4.13mm (#5) Anderson received $4mm (#3) Quantrill received $3.96mm (#8) Manning received $3.5mm (#9) Gowdy received $3.5mm (#42) Collins received $3.38mm (#10) Whitley received $3.15mm (#17) Once Braxton Garrett signs with MIA, Groome's advisor will have all the relevant data points to negotiate a deal. The bid/ask ($4.8mm vs. slot) is pretty clear, and the likely result ($4mm) is also pretty clear. You think 4-4.2mm get the deal done? Yes. At $4+mm, his agent can say he got top-5 money and the 2nd most money for any HS pitcher.
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Post by stevedillard on Jun 28, 2016 11:41:47 GMT -5
Is that really a win for the agent representing the consensus #1 pick? I don't know if the agent needs a win, but as a newbe, he may be looking for more to show future clients.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 28, 2016 11:56:34 GMT -5
Is that really a win for the agent representing the consensus #1 pick? I don't know if the agent needs a win, but as a newbe, he may be looking for more to show future clients. Except by mid-May he was no longer a consensus #1. His agent could try to (and probably reasonably) say that he was the best *talent* in the draft, but talent isn't the sole determinant, especially these days. Regardless, he fell to 12, and was never in consideration for #1 as the draft approached. Whatever questions followed him are unlikely to evaporate even if he's a JUCO superstar, because it has nothing to do with talent/skill. So he's highly unlikely to go #1 overall next year, and he's got plenty of opportunity to go Karsten Whitson. Unless his agent is incredibly stupid or a pathological gambler, getting top-5 money for a 12th pick should be good enough for him. And frankly, I think that would make him look like a better agent. If I'm hiring somebody, I want them to make me money, but definitely not gamble with my career.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 28, 2016 12:00:09 GMT -5
Is that really a win for the agent representing the consensus #1 pick? I don't know if the agent needs a win, but as a newbe, he may be looking for more to show future clients. The agent can ask for all he wants. I just can't see Jason giving up a years worth of development & getting to a MLB payday one year sooner over a few hundred thousand. I the kid wants to sign, he'll sign. He knows if he goes to JuCo he may blow his arm out & be in the 3rd round (or worse) next year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2016 12:17:49 GMT -5
Don't forget, there's consensus on-field talent, which Groome arguably was at the top of the list for, and consensus top pick, which he wasn't even close. Beyond the money ask and "maturity issues," keep in mind that HS pitchers are seen as an enormous risk. No HS RHP has ever gone 1-1, and only three LHP have - Brady Aiken in 2014, Brien Taylor in 1991, and David Clyde in 1973. While his signability and character issues pushed him to 12, they're not necessarily what kept him from going 1-1, and that's why the ask is top 5 money.
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Post by borisman on Jun 28, 2016 12:25:06 GMT -5
Is that really a win for the agent representing the consensus #1 pick? I don't know if the agent needs a win, but as a newbe, he may be looking for more to show future clients. The agent can ask for all he wants. I just can't see Jason giving up a years worth of development & getting to a MLB payday one year sooner over a few hundred thousand. I the kid wants to sign, he'll sign. He knows if he goes to JuCo he may blow his arm out & be in the 3rd round (or worse) next year. As also been stated, he'd be making a big mistake by not signing and going to juco to re-enter next year's draft. No guarantee he'll go in the top 5. The draft has better prospects next year so he'd have to be lights out just to get his $5-$6mil.
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Post by borisman on Jun 28, 2016 12:26:44 GMT -5
Is that really a win for the agent representing the consensus #1 pick? I don't know if the agent needs a win, but as a newbe, he may be looking for more to show future clients. The agent can ask for all he wants. I just can't see Jason giving up a years worth of development & getting to a MLB payday one year sooner over a few hundred thousand. I the kid wants to sign, he'll sign. He knows if he goes to JuCo he may blow his arm out & be in the 3rd round (or worse) next year. Everyone is aware of the Matt Harrington story. You won't see a repeat, even if he did get some of his original agreed upon signing bonus.
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 28, 2016 12:49:46 GMT -5
What's the most money a drafted player ever turned down?
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jun 28, 2016 12:53:40 GMT -5
What's the most money a drafted player ever turned down? Mark Appel? Pirates offered $3.8m, just the first thought, I'm sure there is someone else though.
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Post by borisman on Jun 28, 2016 13:03:22 GMT -5
What's the most money a drafted player ever turned down? It had to be Harrington. I think he was offered $4mil + Edit: If true:The Rockies' final offer was $4 million and a guaranteed major league callup by the end of 2002. Harrington turned down the deal, sat out the season and re-entered the draft in 2001.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jun 28, 2016 13:32:13 GMT -5
What's the most money a drafted player ever turned down? It had to be Harrington. I think he was offered $4mil + Edit: If true:The Rockies' final offer was $4 million and a guaranteed major league callup by the end of 2002. Harrington turned down the deal, sat out the season and re-entered the draft in 2001. I had heard some minor details about Harrington before, but early 2000's were before my draft following days, so I just read an article about the situation. What. A. Moron. I'd love to know how much Tanzer (the agent) agreed to settle for out of court after the lawsuit from Harrington.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 28, 2016 13:52:59 GMT -5
“@chriscotillo: Source: Red Sox not close to deal with #12 overall pick Jason Groome at this point. Still time before 7/15 deadline.”
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 28, 2016 14:55:45 GMT -5
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