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Post by amfox1 on Aug 14, 2016 13:51:04 GMT -5
Given my sometimes obsessive nature, I still have fantasies of the Redsox getting the best of both worlds- several Pomeranz starts, watching Rodriguez stabilize, and clay and Johnson, Elias and Owens do so a bit- and now rescind the trade. I guess that's a no go because of the relationships with not just SD, but everyone else, and also their belief that Pomeranz will do better the next few years and be helpful now. My fantasies clearly appear to be better than your fantasies. Both, however, have the same chance of happening (none).
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Post by chud on Aug 14, 2016 15:48:11 GMT -5
Like i know anything, but the good and bad of the current SP market (which is basically at the "blackmail" level right now for sellers) is that the Sox do have an important commodity in Pomeranz...First, he's here of course to help them in their playoff push this year, and for that the Sox sacrificed a great prospect. But, in the off season, he could be used to recoup a high level prospect (5% chance), be kept to man a spot in the rotation (30% chance), or be traded for an SP upgrade (65%). Of course, just my total speculation, but think DD will use him to trade up further in the SP market for more of a difference maker, which when all teams are in play forming their rosters will have more suitors that will need that kind of affordable, young, productive SP back in any trade...FWIW...So that's an important asset no matter how you slice it...
I also think the Sox are one good/true #2 SP away from a WS...Bullpens are always a crap shoot...and the Sox are stacked w/ young production in the field...Price I'm not worried about, think E-Rod is their ace in the whole #2/#3 (i don't trade him at all unless it's for Fernandez), then Porcello, Wright etc...One true, solid, reliable #2 puts them in the serious WS hunt which i'm not sure they're in this year, despite being a strong playoff contender...I know i'm not exactly splitting the atom here with my thoughts, but if that type of upgrade is made, w/ Pomeranz as the 2nd piece (non AB/Moncado) piece, they'd look great.
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Post by tonyc on Aug 14, 2016 16:17:16 GMT -5
My rescinding the deal fantasy of course centers around the sox having another meeting, say after Pomeranz blows another start, and doing an about face on seeking compensation from SanDiego due to lack of medical disclosure.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 14, 2016 16:33:19 GMT -5
My rescinding the deal fantasy of course centers around the sox having another meeting, say after Pomeranz blows another start, and doing an about face on seeking compensation from SanDiego due to lack of medical disclosure. I can't think of a less likely scenario other than Kopech pitching in the bullpen this season.
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Post by tonyc on Aug 14, 2016 17:54:49 GMT -5
Sadly I agree.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 15, 2016 8:08:11 GMT -5
My rescinding the deal fantasy of course centers around the sox having another meeting, say after Pomeranz blows another start, and doing an about face on seeking compensation from SanDiego due to lack of medical disclosure. I can't think of a less likely scenario other than Kopech pitching in the bullpen this season. Kopech pitching for the Red Sox this year has something like a 1 in 1,000 chance of happening, which means it is several degrees of magnitude more likely than the Padres giving backsies on the Pomeranz trade.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 15, 2016 8:12:48 GMT -5
Someone brought up a good point on Pomeranz. To me you can't say a starter who doesn't go at least 6 innings deserved to win a start. If you go 5.1 innings and leave with a 4-2 lead or whatever, you haven't done your job. If you are a starter of Pomeranz ilk or supposed ilk.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 15, 2016 8:16:47 GMT -5
This guys biggest issue is going deep into games and if you can only average 6 innings a start - never going more than 7 - in San Diego, how many innings will you average in Boston?
Let's face it there is no real reason besides speculation and hope that this guy averages more than 5.2 innings a start in Boston which means he is going to leave a lot of games up to the middle relievers.
I was against the trade because of Pomeranz and what's realistic to expect from him. Not because they traded Espinoza. Honestly, the timing may have been perfect to deal AE but the return was wrong.
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 15, 2016 15:00:07 GMT -5
7.2 today. Wish he was still in there
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 15, 2016 15:16:36 GMT -5
This guys biggest issue is going deep into games and if you can only average 6 innings a start - never going more than 7 - in San Diego, how many innings will you average in Boston? Let's face it there is no real reason besides speculation and hope that this guy averages more than 5.2 innings a start in Boston which means he is going to leave a lot of games up to the middle relievers. I was against the trade because of Pomeranz and what's realistic to expect from him. Not because they traded Espinoza. Honestly, the timing may have been perfect to deal AE but the return was wrong. Only one start but maybe he turned the corner. Big help today.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 15, 2016 16:31:48 GMT -5
This guys biggest issue is going deep into games and if you can only average 6 innings a start - never going more than 7 - in San Diego, how many innings will you average in Boston? Let's face it there is no real reason besides speculation and hope that this guy averages more than 5.2 innings a start in Boston which means he is going to leave a lot of games up to the middle relievers. I was against the trade because of Pomeranz and what's realistic to expect from him. Not because they traded Espinoza. Honestly, the timing may have been perfect to deal AE but the return was wrong. Or it wasn't. He looked fine today. The shorter outings for an NL team might be due to the inclination to pinch hot for pitchers as you get to the 6th and 7th in a close game. You'd have to look at game logs and pitch counts, perhaps. I think the Sox are well aware of any potential issue with him not going deep into games and walking more batters than desirable. If they traded for him, no doubt they believe (rightly or wrongly) he'll naturally improve his control or they can help him improve his control. They certainly believe he's breaking out and his best days are ahead of him. Not sure I'd bet against Bannister.
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 15, 2016 16:50:19 GMT -5
Sox are not expecting ace like performances. Just some solid innings. Today was nice to see. Something we never received out of are 4/5 spots early on.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 15, 2016 19:28:32 GMT -5
That was a very strong outing from Pomeranz. He kept his pitch count under control and pounded the strike zone. The only negative was that he gave up another HR. He was keeping the ball in the ballpark when with the Pads, but has given up at least one homer in each game.
Either way, he pitched very well and it was good to see. I'd love to see some more excellent outings like he had today.
Seeing what they gave up, I would hope he'd pitch closer to an ace (I'd take a #2 or a strong #3) than a #4 type starter, and today was the first time he looked like that kind of guy.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 16, 2016 6:15:15 GMT -5
That was a very strong outing from Pomeranz. He kept his pitch count under control and pounded the strike zone. The only negative was that he gave up another HR. He was keeping the ball in the ballpark when with the Pads, but has given up at least one homer in each game. Either way, he pitched very well and it was good to see. I'd love to see some more excellent outings like he had today. Seeing what they gave up, I would hope he'd pitch closer to an ace (I'd take a #2 or a strong #3) than a #4 type starter, and today was the first time he looked like that kind of guy. He's pitched bad in 2 starts and one of them was after he was traded and hadn't pitched in 13 days so even his haters should give him a pass on that one. While he hasn't been good it's been exaggerated about him pitching poorly. Every other start he's giving up 2 runs or less, the missing factor is going another 3 batters deeper in the starts with no more runs allowed. Edits to clarify.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 16, 2016 7:30:28 GMT -5
They better be expecting more than just some solid innings from the guy.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2016 7:57:20 GMT -5
They better be expecting more than just some solid innings from the guy. With all of the way-better pitchers that were traded at the deadline, what would you have done differently? Keep Buchholz in the rotation and then barely miss the playoffs? I personally wanted Rich Hill, but he hasn't pitched in a month so I was wrong there.
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Post by dnfl333 on Aug 16, 2016 8:15:08 GMT -5
Not all but most of these pitchers need to grab a set of b@lls and challenge hitters.
Perfect example Kimbrel yesterday. Stayed with the heat and it won him the game.
Nibble nibble nibble only gets you so far. You get beat with a challenge pitch so be it...
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 16, 2016 10:15:38 GMT -5
That was a very strong outing from Pomeranz. He kept his pitch count under control and pounded the strike zone. The only negative was that he gave up another HR. He was keeping the ball in the ballpark when with the Pads, but has given up at least one homer in each game.
Either way, he pitched very well and it was good to see. I'd love to see some more excellent outings like he had today. Seeing what they gave up, I would hope he'd pitch closer to an ace (I'd take a #2 or a strong #3) than a #4 type starter, and today was the first time he looked like that kind of guy. I don't have a problem with giving up HR's as long as they're solo shots. IMO, it's better than giving up 3 straight singles to give up a run.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 16, 2016 10:20:10 GMT -5
Not all but most of these pitchers need to grab a set of b@lls and challenge hitters. Perfect example Kimbrel yesterday. Stayed with the heat and it won him the game. Nibble nibble nibble only gets you so far. You get beat with a challenge pitch so be it... This is parody, right?
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Post by telson13 on Aug 16, 2016 10:55:56 GMT -5
Not all but most of these pitchers need to grab a set of b@lls and challenge hitters. Perfect example Kimbrel yesterday. Stayed with the heat and it won him the game. Nibble nibble nibble only gets you so far. You get beat with a challenge pitch so be it... This is parody, right? It's the Joe Kelly method.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 16, 2016 12:11:13 GMT -5
Not all but most of these pitchers need to grab a set of b@lls and challenge hitters. Perfect example Kimbrel yesterday. Stayed with the heat and it won him the game. Nibble nibble nibble only gets you so far. You get beat with a challenge pitch so be it... Please re-read some of the posts. There are real issues with Kimbrel and they have little to do with the simplistic notion of heat. The Sox will, I believe, have to be agnostic in their 9 th inning choices, and ready to pull the plug if the need arises. A 97 mph fastball out of the zone that the batter doesn't bother to swing at is a ball. It isn't about nibbling. He has real problems locating, not all the time but often enough to make him less than effective.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 16, 2016 13:09:12 GMT -5
That was a very strong outing from Pomeranz. He kept his pitch count under control and pounded the strike zone. The only negative was that he gave up another HR. He was keeping the ball in the ballpark when with the Pads, but has given up at least one homer in each game. Either way, he pitched very well and it was good to see. I'd love to see some more excellent outings like he had today. Seeing what they gave up, I would hope he'd pitch closer to an ace (I'd take a #2 or a strong #3) than a #4 type starter, and today was the first time he looked like that kind of guy. He's pitched bad in 2 starts and one of them was after he was traded and hadn't pitched in 13 games so even his haters should give him a pass on that one. While he hasn't been good it's been exaggerated about pitching bad to. Every other start he's giving up 2 runs or less, the missing factor is going another 3 batters deeper in the starts with no more runs allowed. People may not be a proponent of the Pomeranz/Espinoza deal but that doesn't mean that they are "haters" of Pomeranz. That's your perception. Yesterday he totally impacted that game for the good. The bullpen didn't have much work to do. Yesterday Pomeranz was a top-flight pitcher. If we see this guy a lot more often going forward, great!
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 16, 2016 19:03:15 GMT -5
Not all but most of these pitchers need to grab a set of b@lls and challenge hitters. Perfect example Kimbrel yesterday. Stayed with the heat and it won him the game. Nibble nibble nibble only gets you so far. You get beat with a challenge pitch so be it... Please re-read some of the posts. There are real issues with Kimbrel and they have little to do with the simplistic notion of heat. The Sox will, I believe, have to be agnostic in their 9 th inning choices, and ready to pull the plug if the need arises. A 97 mph fastball out of the zone that the batter doesn't bother to swing at is a ball. It isn't about i nibbling. He has real problems locating, not all the time but often enough to make him less than effective. He has saved 20 of 22 so I'd say he's been very effective but he's been far from dominant. His control has me concerned especially come playoff time.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 16, 2016 19:08:32 GMT -5
He's pitched bad in 2 starts and one of them was after he was traded and hadn't pitched in 13 games so even his haters should give him a pass on that one. While he hasn't been good it's been exaggerated about pitching bad to. Every other start he's giving up 2 runs or less, the missing factor is going another 3 batters deeper in the starts with no more runs allowed. People may not be a proponent of the Pomeranz/Espinoza deal but that doesn't mean that they are "haters" of Pomeranz. That's your perception. Yesterday he totally impacted that game for the good. The bullpen didn't have much work to do. Yesterday Pomeranz was a top-flight pitcher. If we see this guy a lot more often going forward, great! My perception is that some people appear to be very down on him and many of those are people who hated the deal because of AE. I'm speaking in generalities. This is the second time I've done that and both times you took it to heart as If I made the claim about you or that everyone who thought x believed y and both times that was wrong. That speaks more about your perception then it does mine. It appears you are trying to argue for it's own sake, and I'm not taking the bait.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2016 19:11:43 GMT -5
People may not be a proponent of the Pomeranz/Espinoza deal but that doesn't mean that they are "haters" of Pomeranz. That's your perception. Yesterday he totally impacted that game for the good. The bullpen didn't have much work to do. Yesterday Pomeranz was a top-flight pitcher. If we see this guy a lot more often going forward, great! My perception is that some people appear to be very down on him and many of those are people who hated the deal because of AE. I'm speaking in generalities. This is the second time I've done that and both times you took it to heart as If I made the claim about you or that everyone who thought x believed y and both times that was wrong. That speaks more about your perception then it does mine. It appears you are trying to argue for it's own sake, and I'm not taking the bait. I've noticed the same. I'll wait until I see the rest of the season before determining what kind of pitcher he might be for Red Sox, not start jumping on him after a few starts like a lot of people did. Most pitchers just don't come to Boston and immediately pitch great.
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