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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 14, 2016 17:51:52 GMT -5
He's had half a good year and has been either hurt or awful the rest of his career. Steven wright has had half a good year, is anyone trading their top prospect for him?? **** no. And **** dombrowski
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Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 14, 2016 17:52:02 GMT -5
Jump off a bridge if you hate it so much...I'm happy I won't ever have to see Sean O'Sullivan pitch another inning in Boston.
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Post by ramireja on Jul 14, 2016 17:52:07 GMT -5
This is a bad trade, and that's on Dombrowski. But it's also on ownership, who you know are getting antsy and have green lit these win-now moves for dumb panicky reasons (short-term ticket sales, Ortiz's last season, etc). Its also partly on Buchholz, Rodriguez, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, and Elias. Its completely shameful that not one of those guys could step when given an opportunity this year. Not one of them....
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 14, 2016 17:52:12 GMT -5
The deals not final, lets protest Yawkey way....I can be in Boston in 2 hours!!!!
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 14, 2016 17:53:14 GMT -5
Pomeranz has thrown the 3rd most pitches per plate appearance in all of baseball and now moves to a division with a focus on plate discipline, in a park that usually isn't kind to lefties. The dudes a bum, anyone defending this can rationalize it any way they want but the simple fact is if you think it's a good trade you're wrong and need to pay more attention
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Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 14, 2016 17:53:23 GMT -5
This trade was made so he doesn't have to trade any of those 3 guys. When Groome is signed we still have 2 elite arms in the system. Having two elite arms in your system doesn't make a third one any less valuable. The third one just made the jump from single A straight to Boston.
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Post by flasox27 on Jul 14, 2016 17:53:52 GMT -5
Too bad Dumbo didn't have the foresight to sign Hill in the offseason folr just money. Then he wouldn't haver to give up the second best pitching prospect in the minors for a mediocre number 3 at best starter.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jul 14, 2016 17:54:23 GMT -5
I would've liked Pomeranz just fine this past offseason when the going rate was a Yonder Alonso type.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:17 GMT -5
I have a feeling DDo is thinking he just traded for the next Arrieta just a little bit before people realize he's for real. That's exactly my read as well. It's a huge gamble, though-- even if Dombrowski is right and Pomeranz is a legit #2, he paid a price commensurate with what you'd give up for a guy who you're sure is a legit #2 and will stay healthy, but Pomeranz comes with a lot of risk, and the trade package doesn't reflect that risk. Arrieta throws 3 mph harder, which even for a RHP is disproportionally higher. Arrieta has a 4 pitch mix, Pomeranz 3 with a show me change. Not to mention that he's never shown the BB% to come close to what Arrieta has been able to do in terms of total value. He'd have to strike out 12 per 9 to come to Arrieta's FIP/FIPx over the past few seasons.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:35 GMT -5
Here's Pomeranz' career since he escaped the pitching hell known as Coors Field:
2014 69 IP, 3.62 SIERA 2015 86 IP, 3.73 SIERA 2016 102 IP, 3.75 SIERA
That's a pretty short but also pretty decent track record.
My assessment is that the price was fair. This was not a trade the Red Sox should have made: they were in a great position to capitalize on Espinoza's potential should he reach his ceiling, and Pomeranz does not move the needle this year as much as people would like to think. But at least they didn't get fleeced like they did with the Kimbrel trade.
Well, until we hear that Dombrowski chucked in Devers, Travis and Light to get it done, anyway.
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:40 GMT -5
Also. I love Espinoza. But he is only 18 and is far away from the majors. There is no guarantees with him. (See Casey Kelly as a prospect and how that turned out) Despite where Kelly was ranked at the time of his trade, he never had the ceiling that Espinoza has. Having said that, I agree with you. Espinoza is an 18 year old hard thrower with a body that doesn't always live up to the rigors of being a starting pitcher. It hurts (bad) to give him up, and has the potential to be as bad as any trade in recent memory, but evrytime I look at the Free Agent list this winter I think something like this needed to be done.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -5
I need a drink! I need lots of drinks actually!
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Post by mtsquad on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:54 GMT -5
I hope all the whiny bitch fans who can't deal with losing more than 0 games a year are happy. God, granted I only lurk occasionally through here, you kind of come off as exactly who your condemning here. I mean you stated earlier you're going to quit watching the Red Sox over one trade? Comes off as more or less a tantrum to me, and then this post. I totally understand frustration and I'm not defending this deal in the least, just commenting on what I'm seeing here. Just seems like a little overreaction. In advance I'm not trying to attack so peace my friend we both have similar interests.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:59 GMT -5
Jump off a bridge if you hate it so much...I'm happy I won't ever have to see Sean O'Sullivan pitch another inning in Boston. Great. They could have made moves for a lesser pitcher. This is more than what the flipping DBacks gave up for Shelby Miller. DD got hosed....AGAIN. I'll be stunned if Dumb Dave doesn't give up Moncada and AB for Tyson Ross at the deadline...just awful. Now I know why Detroit canned him.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 14, 2016 17:56:15 GMT -5
What does having Espinoza solve through 2018? Nothing. The core is in place for this team to win a couple World Series over the next few years. Trading for a breakout star like Pomeranz helps those chances tremendously. If he pitches like he has this year over the length of the contract then we can extend him or make him a QO and get a draft pick in return...and that is besides giving us a talented arm who can help carry us in he playoffs. I like Porcello, but he's not a guy I would be very confident in pitching in a series deciding playoff game. Espinoza will be in the majors before 2018. I don't think so
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2016 17:56:33 GMT -5
I would've liked Pomeranz just fine this past offseason when the going rate was a Yonder Alonso type. Right, even if you're a brilliant scout who can predict breakouts and collapses, you actually need to sell high and buy low. In both this deal and the Kimbrel deal, Dombrowski has paid full price, and then some.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 14, 2016 17:56:50 GMT -5
This was supposed to be a happy day! this was supposed to be a day of celebration. We got Groome into our system, but DD had to go and mess it up.
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Post by philarhody on Jul 14, 2016 17:57:19 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza is a (maybe) 6 foot righthander. Name me one other righty with his stature, besides Pedro Martinez, who has even been a consistent #2 starter over the past 25 years.
Now consistent Drew Pomeranz is not. But considering handedness and stature, i'm not sure that Espinoza projects as a better player.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2016 17:58:18 GMT -5
I hope all the whiny bitch fans who can't deal with losing more than 0 games a year are happy. God, granted I only lurk occasionally through here, you kind of come off as exactly who your condemning here. I mean you stated earlier you're going to quit watching the Red Sox over one trade? Comes off as more or less a tantrum to me, and then this post. I totally understand frustration and I'm not defending this deal in the least, just commenting on what I'm seeing here. Just seems like a little overreaction. In advance I'm not trying to attack so peace my friend we both have similar interests. Liar, I never said that.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:58:20 GMT -5
Espinoza will be in the majors before 2018. I don't think so He's just as good of a prospect as JoFer was and more advanced in terms of where he's pitching. He will be up next year if not September this year. The guy is a lock solid Ace. And DD traded THAT for this scrub! Pomeranz is an absolute SCRUB of the highest order. I'm telling you he's at Porcello's level. Would you trade a future ace for Rick Flipping Porcello?!!! Hell no.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 14, 2016 17:58:27 GMT -5
Big price, and sad that we won't get to dream on Espinosa. But the way to win is to have scouts and execs who can judge how good someone like Pomeranz really is. I don't know whether we have that. This looks like a calculated risk. I can live with it.
My bottom line is that the choices this year were either something painful like this, or something less painful but with less of a chance for success.
The total cost this month for getting a RHH, LHRP, and #3 starter under control for a while seems less than it might have been.
I'm glad we have Devers still.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 14, 2016 17:59:45 GMT -5
“@jeffpassan: Already heard from two front-office types saying they dig deal for Boston. Pomeranz is a cheap, under-control, potential difference maker.” Great deal for the Sox. There is absolutely no guarantee that Espinosa will ever achieve the prowess already present in Pomeranz...an all- star pitcher. C'mon guys.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 14, 2016 18:00:03 GMT -5
Also. I love Espinoza. But he is only 18 and is far away from the majors. There is no guarantees with him. (See Casey Kelly as a prospect and how that turned out) Despite where Kelly was ranked at the time of his trade, he never had the ceiling that Espinoza has. Having said that, I agree with you. Espinoza is an 18 year old hard thrower with a body that doesn't always live up to the rigors of being a starting pitcher. It hurts (bad) to give him up, and has the potential to be as bad as any trade in recent memory, but evrytime I look at the Free Agent list this winter I think something like this needed to be done. See Drew Pomeranz as the #5 pick in the draft, ahead of Harvey and Sale.
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 14, 2016 18:00:25 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza is a (maybe) 6 foot righthander. Name me one other righty with his stature, besides Pedro Martinez, who has even been a consistent #2 starter over the past 25 years. Now consistent Drew Pomeranz is not. But considering handedness and stature, i'm not sure that Espinoza projects as a better player. So despite the fact he's the 15th best prospect in baseball, 3rd best pitching prospect, all at the ripe old age of 18, with 3 plus pitches good command and great makeup, he's not gonna be as good as a guy whose had half a good year simply because he's a bit shorter and right handed? Seems like good reasoning to me
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Post by ramireja on Jul 14, 2016 18:00:59 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza is a (maybe) 6 foot righthander. Name me one other righty with his stature, besides Pedro Martinez, who has even been a consistent #2 starter over the past 25 years. Now consistent Drew Pomeranz is not. But considering handedness and stature, i'm not sure that Espinoza projects as a better player. Read the latest scouting scratch. He's grown.....remember he's only 18.
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