nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 29, 2016 23:29:08 GMT -5
Direct result of KC winning the WS on the back of their bullpen. Some GM, think it was Theo, who said in the off-season that the mistake teams make is trying to replicate the same formula that the previous WS series used to win it all. Are teams really over valuing late inning relievers? Maybe the market is finally adjusting to the relievers true worth. It would be one thing if scoring was substantially higher in late innings, but one inning really isn't that much more valuable than any other.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 29, 2016 23:53:50 GMT -5
I would and/or would have traded the Kimbrel package for Giolito in a heart beat. I think the Yanks are making a big mistake here.
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Post by jclmontana on Jul 30, 2016 0:04:39 GMT -5
Are teams really over valuing late inning relievers? Maybe the market is finally adjusting to the relievers true worth. It would be one thing if scoring was substantially higher in late innings, but one inning really isn't that much more valuable than any other. www.fangraphs.com/blogs/valuing-relievers-correction-or-bubble/
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Post by bosox81 on Jul 30, 2016 6:29:44 GMT -5
To the question posed in the article, I'd say over-correction based on overreaction to the 2015 WS. I don't think the article gives enough emphasis to the volatility of relievers. I mean, one need not look further than the same KC Royals that started all this. How sustainable is their "win through an elite bullpen" model? One WS and are crashing hard, and not because they lost a bunch of players to free agency. Honest question: How many "elite" receivers are there right now that are on their 7th plus year (past their arbitration years) of staying elite?
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 30, 2016 9:05:11 GMT -5
Just throwing out this Peter Gammons tweet from this morning, "Following Scott Lauber's story, word around Chisox Friday was that they had scouts at every Red Sox farm games last night"
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Post by artfuldodger on Jul 30, 2016 9:23:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Milwaukee is doing the same.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 30, 2016 9:28:58 GMT -5
To the question posed in the article, I'd say over-correction based on overreaction to the 2015 WS. I don't think the article gives enough emphasis to the volatility of relievers. I mean, one need not look further than the same KC Royals that started all this. How sustainable is their "win through an elite bullpen" model? One WS and are crashing hard, and not because they lost a bunch of players to free agency. Honest question: How many "elite" receivers are there right now that are on their 7th plus year (past their arbitration years) of staying elite? Article biggest points for me, elite relievers 2 plus war are really worth 4 war and elite relievers impact in October is way bigger than in regular season as they pitch higher percentage of innings. If this article is right and you can add 2 war to a player like Miller who's on pace for like 3-3.5 war season, that would make him a 5-5.5 war player and he can have a bigger impact in October. So if you can really add 2 war to elite relievers I don't think it's really an over-correction and it's more like a correction because elite guys have been way undervalued.
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Post by barney27 on Jul 30, 2016 11:34:34 GMT -5
Lets trade moncada and kopech to the rays and get snell, archer or moore. Lets say 2 of the 3 mentioned. WOW pinch me. DD would probably say no.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 30, 2016 12:39:27 GMT -5
Speier had a good article early this week how many pitchers have an adjustment period when they come to the Red Sox. Thus I don't expect a significant bump if Dombroskj empties the farm system to acquire Sale or Quintanna particularly when this team also needs two relievers and a LF. They would also mortgaging the future for a possible one game wild card playoff which makes no sense.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 30, 2016 13:01:56 GMT -5
Speier had a good article early this week how many pitchers have an adjustment period when they come to the Red Sox. Thus I don't expect a significant bump if Dombroskj empties the farm system to acquire Sale or Quintanna particularly when this team also needs two relievers and a LF. They would also mortgaging the future for a possible one game wild card playoff which makes no sense. That is really my argument also. Our rotation has a chance to be somewhat above average now. I'd take it over the Yankees, O's, and Jays' rotation for sure! I am petrified that DD will attempt to add by using even more of our prospects. I wish it was Tuesday morning. If this club can't compete with all of the moves DD has made already, then this isn't our year. Just don't trade any of top 6 or 7 guys...even for a slight upgrade with a Sale. The ONLY pitcher I would have to re-consider on is Jose Fernandez. I would like to see a Loggy to replace Layne, but that is it.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2016 13:16:10 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Mets made three-player offer to #Brewers for Lucroy, headed by d’Arnaud. Second piece believed to be Nimmo or comparable player.”
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 30, 2016 13:16:18 GMT -5
Lets trade moncada and kopech to the rays and get snell, archer or moore. Lets say 2 of the 3 mentioned. WOW pinch me. DD would probably say no. I sure hope dombrowski would say no to moncada for any of them.
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Post by barney27 on Jul 30, 2016 13:27:24 GMT -5
Lets trade moncada and kopech to the rays and get snell, archer or moore. Lets say 2 of the 3 mentioned. WOW pinch me. DD would probably say no. I sure hope dombrowski would say no to moncada for any of them. So you think moncada is Anthony Rizzo and not lars Anderson. Hope so. Not really trying to trade any one. But I do have some reservations about moncada. I want to see if he adjusts to AA pitching. 40% strikeout rate at AA raises some doubts.
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Post by barney27 on Jul 30, 2016 13:35:31 GMT -5
Speier had a good article early this week how many pitchers have an adjustment period when they come to the Red Sox. Thus I don't expect a significant bump if Dombroskj empties the farm system to acquire Sale or Quintanna particularly when this team also needs two relievers and a LF. They would also mortgaging the future for a possible one game wild card playoff which makes no sense. That is really my argument also. Our rotation has a chance to be somewhat above average now. I'd take it over the Yankees, O's, and Jays' rotation for sure! I am petrified that DD will attempt to add by using even more of our prospects. I wish it was Tuesday morning. If this club can't compete with all of the moves DD has made already, then this isn't our year. Just don't trade any of top 6 or 7 guys...even for a slight upgrade with a Sale. The ONLY pitcher I would have to re-consider on is Jose Fernandez. I would like to see a Loggy to replace Layne, but that is it. I agree I am afraid dd will trade a bunch to get one. Yes the green monster does get in to most pitchers head and they will adjust, like I think porcello has. The problem is that one starting pitcher probably does not cover for 2 lefty relievers and maybe a left fielder. Keep your fingers crossed and hope dd goes on vacation with no cell phone service.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 30, 2016 13:51:49 GMT -5
I sure hope dombrowski would say no to moncada for any of them. So you think moncada is Anthony Rizzo and not lars Anderson. Hope so. Not really trying to trade any one. But I do have some reservations about moncada. I want to see if he adjusts to AA pitching. 40% strikeout rate at AA raises some doubts. If they trade moncada I'd prefer it to be for somebody more proven than any of those pitchers.
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Post by barney27 on Jul 30, 2016 14:00:57 GMT -5
So you think moncada is Anthony Rizzo and not lars Anderson. Hope so. Not really trying to trade any one. But I do have some reservations about moncada. I want to see if he adjusts to AA pitching. 40% strikeout rate at AA raises some doubts. If they trade moncada I'd prefer it to be for somebody more proven than any of those pitchers. Archer is a young proven pitcher but having a poor year. Snell is the young version of e rod trying to establish himself in the bigs. Before tommy j surgery moore was elite. But to your point I personally would not trade any of the top 5 or6 unless I got somebody very SPECIAL.
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 30, 2016 14:06:04 GMT -5
Nats get Melancon from Pittsburgh for Felipe Rivero and a prospect. Melancon will take over for Papelbon as the closer.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2016 15:28:46 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #WhiteSox scouted #RedSox’s AAA, AA and High A affiliates last night. Sox “highly doubt” deal will occur due to asking price.”
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2016 15:29:28 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Blanketing of #RedSox’s system by #WhiteSox was first mentioned by @pgammo. Some believe CWS simply laying groundwork for off-season trade.”
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 30, 2016 15:35:15 GMT -5
Swihart plus something not significant. If they include a reliever I'd consider Kopech as well. Catching position is the least concerning on this team. Need at least 2 relievers Catching is literally their weakest position. By far. Is it a fatal flaw? No, but that's not a reason to not acquire a massive upgrade if the price is reasonable.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2016 15:49:22 GMT -5
“@hoynsie: Sounds like Indians were more interested in lefty Will Smith, but Milwaukee wants to package him with Lucroy. Stay tuned.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 30, 2016 15:58:35 GMT -5
That said, I think he'll end up with a team that needs him more, like Cleveland or NYM.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Jul 30, 2016 16:12:35 GMT -5
“@hoynsie: Sounds like Indians were more interested in lefty Will Smith, but Milwaukee wants to package him with Lucroy. Stay tuned. I like the sound of that combo but just wonder how much it'd cost.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jul 30, 2016 16:22:43 GMT -5
The relief market is just weird. Cubs trade the world for a rental in Chapman, Nationals don't trade much for a rental in Melancon, who's been nearly? as good over the last 18 months.
Have to think Papelbon is on the move, can't see him being an 8th inning guy, but who knows. I'd call it an overreaction for the Nats, but they didn't give up much
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2016 16:28:31 GMT -5
Catching position is the least concerning on this team. Need at least 2 relievers Catching is literally their weakest position. By far. Is it a fatal flaw? No, but that's not a reason to not acquire a massive upgrade if the price is reasonable. Sandy Leon has 1.6 fWAR in 29 games. How weak is it really?
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