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Post by bluechip on Dec 1, 2016 22:30:41 GMT -5
Jeff Passan Verified account @jeffpassan Int’l bonus $ depends strictly on market size. Teams can trade every $ of their int’l pool. Teams can trade for up to 75% of theirs. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/mlb-mlbpa-agree-to-new-collective-bargaining-agreement.htmlThere are three tiers in spending allotment, per Jon Heyman of Fan Rag (via Twitter). Large-revenue clubs will have $4.75MM to spend, mid-tier teams can go up to $5.25MM, and the smallest organizations can tap $5.75MM. It's pretty ridiculous that large market teams get less $ for international signings. It seems like small market teams are the big winners in every aspect. And "market" is a relative term here. Miami is definitely not a small market. Neither are Houston, San Diego, Tampa, and several others that claim "small market" status. They are just cheap owner/lower payroll teams. They're all billionaires. Some just aren't in it to win. Those teams' incomes are far less than the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, ect. Let's not pretend that these are not businesses. The Red Sox and Yankees are turning huge profits. To say that they are "more in it to win" is being very naive. Based upon the size of the markets, the household income in the markets, and the media deals available, some teams are going to be profitable with 200 million dollar payrolls. Other teams will not be profitable. Each team sets its own payroll in order to maximize profits. By the way, the Red Sox and Yankees profit from having fans in those smaller markets. They need someone to play and by having teams in those cities, they increase the national appeal of the game (and thereby increase the amount of money they can get from national tv contracts). If every team did what was in it's own best interest, rather than the interest of the group, the Rays, Twins, and Marlins would all move to New York and try to compete with the Yankees and Mets for that very profitable market. The Yankees and Mets do not want that, so they share some of their profits (or rather the Yankees and Rays both joined the same league which prevents the Rays from moving to NYC on a whim and also makes the Yankees share its profits). This is all cartel behavior. It's the same thing garbage collectors try to do until the DOJ comes in and stops it.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 1, 2016 23:42:17 GMT -5
... Still, I really don't understand MLB's desire to create this codified stratification between large market and small market clubs though. This is certain to bring the law of unintended consequences into play. The minute a boundary with any uncertainty is conjured up, it's ripe for gaming. That's what the small market/big market divide is: a boundary that spells money lost or gained depending on which side your team is sitting on, and it's going to be hard to define. It's the place where the Jeffrey Lorias of the world make their living.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2016 0:55:30 GMT -5
And "market" is a relative term here. Miami is definitely not a small market. Neither are Houston, San Diego, Tampa, and several others that claim "small market" status. They are just cheap owner/lower payroll teams. They're all billionaires. Some just aren't in it to win. Those teams' incomes are far less than the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, ect. Let's not pretend that these are not businesses. The Red Sox and Yankees are turning huge profits. To say that they are "more in it to win" is being very naive. Based upon the size of the markets, the household income in the markets, and the media deals available, some teams are going to be profitable with 200 million dollar payrolls. Other teams will not be profitable. Each team sets its own payroll in order to maximize profits. By the way, the Red Sox and Yankees profit from having fans in those smaller markets. They need someone to play and by having teams in those cities, they increase the national appeal of the game (and thereby increase the amount of money they can get from national tv contracts). If every team did what was in it's own best interest, rather than the interest of the group, the Rays, Twins, and Marlins would all move to New York and try to compete with the Yankees and Mets for that very profitable market. The Yankees and Mets do not want that, so they share some of their profits (or rather the Yankees and Rays both joined the same league which prevents the Rays from moving to NYC on a whim and also makes the Yankees share its profits). This is all cartel behavior. It's the same thing garbage collectors try to do until the DOJ comes in and stops it. www.listchallenges.com/top-100-largest-us-citiesI just don't buy that. There are places like New York and LA that have clear cut advantages. But Milwaukee is rated #22 and Boston is rated #21. Boston is closer to many so called small market teams than they are to NY and LA. The Red Sox have built a brand and that created die hard fans. I live in Western, MA and drive 2 and 1/2 hours to see my team. One reason the Red Sox had this fan base is because the owners try to win and spend money. I would not be such a die hard fan if the Red Sox did what the Marlins do. If the owners tore down a world series championship team I would probably not care about that team for years. I don't believe for one second teams would be better off moving to NY. You really think Yankee fans would become fans of another team? You think Red Sox fans would just jump ship to another team if they moved to Boston? It really seems that teams like Red Sox get penalized because they are good at creating a product the people can't live without. People complain that Tampa is hard to get to, so it kills revenue. I find that so funny, because me and all my friends drive almost 3 hours to see a game! If more owners cared about winning more than profits they could create a team and brand there fans can't live without and the profits will come. It's going to take time though and most owners care more about money than winning. Don't give me it's a business, we all know that. Business 101 is grow or die, small market teams don't do that because of lack of competition. Give Market Cuban a so called small market team and he'd have them in the large market team bracket in 10 years or less.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 2, 2016 4:00:31 GMT -5
lol Lester:
Jon Lester @jlester34 19h19 hours ago While my efforts to eliminate pitchers from having to throw to 1B didnt pass, I'm proud of the PA & Owners for coming together on a new CBA!
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Post by bluechip on Dec 2, 2016 6:33:02 GMT -5
Those teams' incomes are far less than the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, ect. Let's not pretend that these are not businesses. The Red Sox and Yankees are turning huge profits. To say that they are "more in it to win" is being very naive. Based upon the size of the markets, the household income in the markets, and the media deals available, some teams are going to be profitable with 200 million dollar payrolls. Other teams will not be profitable. Each team sets its own payroll in order to maximize profits. By the way, the Red Sox and Yankees profit from having fans in those smaller markets. They need someone to play and by having teams in those cities, they increase the national appeal of the game (and thereby increase the amount of money they can get from national tv contracts). If every team did what was in it's own best interest, rather than the interest of the group, the Rays, Twins, and Marlins would all move to New York and try to compete with the Yankees and Mets for that very profitable market. The Yankees and Mets do not want that, so they share some of their profits (or rather the Yankees and Rays both joined the same league which prevents the Rays from moving to NYC on a whim and also makes the Yankees share its profits). This is all cartel behavior. It's the same thing garbage collectors try to do until the DOJ comes in and stops it. www.listchallenges.com/top-100-largest-us-citiesI just don't buy that. There are places like New York and LA that have clear cut advantages. But Milwaukee is rated #22 and Boston is rated #21. Boston is closer to many so called small market teams than they are to NY and LA. The Red Sox have built a brand and that created die hard fans. I live in Western, MA and drive 2 and 1/2 hours to see my team. One reason the Red Sox had this fan base is because the owners try to win and spend money. I would not be such a die hard fan if the Red Sox did what the Marlins do. If the owners tore down a world series championship team I would probably not care about that team for years. I don't believe for one second teams would be better off moving to NY. You really think Yankee fans would become fans of another team? You think Red Sox fans would just jump ship to another team if they moved to Boston? It really seems that teams like Red Sox get penalized because they are good at creating a product the people can't live without. People complain that Tampa is hard to get to, so it kills revenue. I find that so funny, because me and all my friends drive almost 3 hours to see a game! If more owners cared about winning more than profits they could create a team and brand there fans can't live without and the profits will come. It's going to take time though and most owners care more about money than winning. Don't give me it's a business, we all know that. Business 101 is grow or die, small market teams don't do that because of lack of competition. Give Market Cuban a so called small market team and he'd have them in the large market team bracket in 10 years or less. Baseball is a cartel, like all professional sports leagues. They are businesses which band together and agree to act in the collective best interest, including dividing up the the market. Do I think that if the Rays moved from Tampa to New York tomorrow, they would immediately start taking fans from the Yankees? Of course not. But they WOULD, over the years, take some revenue from the Yankees and Mets. You are also using the wrong criteria to judge market size. Boston is the 8th largest media market. Milwaukee is 35th. That does not even take into account the innate differences between the markets, such as household income. Why do you think the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees all agree to share their revenues? Because it's in the groups collective best interest. Cartels are more profitable than invidual businesses, and they also disrupt competition (the Federal League was the last time someone seriously challenged MLB), which is why they are prohibited in most contexts.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 2, 2016 7:32:51 GMT -5
Those teams' incomes are far less than the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, ect. Let's not pretend that these are not businesses. The Red Sox and Yankees are turning huge profits. To say that they are "more in it to win" is being very naive. Based upon the size of the markets, the household income in the markets, and the media deals available, some teams are going to be profitable with 200 million dollar payrolls. Other teams will not be profitable. Each team sets its own payroll in order to maximize profits. By the way, the Red Sox and Yankees profit from having fans in those smaller markets. They need someone to play and by having teams in those cities, they increase the national appeal of the game (and thereby increase the amount of money they can get from national tv contracts). If every team did what was in it's own best interest, rather than the interest of the group, the Rays, Twins, and Marlins would all move to New York and try to compete with the Yankees and Mets for that very profitable market. The Yankees and Mets do not want that, so they share some of their profits (or rather the Yankees and Rays both joined the same league which prevents the Rays from moving to NYC on a whim and also makes the Yankees share its profits). This is all cartel behavior. It's the same thing garbage collectors try to do until the DOJ comes in and stops it. www.listchallenges.com/top-100-largest-us-citiesI just don't buy that. There are places like New York and LA that have clear cut advantages. But Milwaukee is rated #22 and Boston is rated #21. Boston is closer to many so called small market teams than they are to NY and LA. The Red Sox have built a brand and that created die hard fans. I live in Western, MA and drive 2 and 1/2 hours to see my team. One reason the Red Sox had this fan base is because the owners try to win and spend money. I would not be such a die hard fan if the Red Sox did what the Marlins do. If the owners tore down a world series championship team I would probably not care about that team for years. I don't believe for one second teams would be better off moving to NY. You really think Yankee fans would become fans of another team? You think Red Sox fans would just jump ship to another team if they moved to Boston? It really seems that teams like Red Sox get penalized because they are good at creating a product the people can't live without. People complain that Tampa is hard to get to, so it kills revenue. I find that so funny, because me and all my friends drive almost 3 hours to see a game! If more owners cared about winning more than profits they could create a team and brand there fans can't live without and the profits will come. It's going to take time though and most owners care more about money than winning. Don't give me it's a business, we all know that. Business 101 is grow or die, small market teams don't do that because of lack of competition. Give Market Cuban a so called small market team and he'd have them in the large market team bracket in 10 years or less. The northeast US seems to have a much less transient group of people living there than in other parts of the country. I live in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of NC and at least half of the people have moved here in the last 30 years. That makes it almost impossible to have a strong fanbase of any sport other than college basketball (because a good chunk of the people who moved here went to college here). You don't have generations of fans and traditions to build on. Probably half of the fans who go to Carolina Hurricanes games go to see the other teams because they're fans of those teams and not the Hurricanes and they've been here almost 20 years. This happens all over in newer markets. Newer fans are not as loyal to their teams either. They show up when they win. If they ever brought a MLB team here, I'd only go to Red Sox games and cheer for the Red Sox and would never root for the new team. A good reason why that is the case is that I'm able to watch the Red Sox every night and am not forced to only watch the home team. You couldn't do that not long ago either.
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Post by ryan24 on Dec 2, 2016 8:05:30 GMT -5
Now that the contract is settled ALL the teams have already started to figure out the loopholes and advantages they can draw to fit their business model. Not all of BUS 101 is grow or die. Niche markets and a business model that recognizes changes to help maintain profitability are also part of BUS 101. The cards and the reds come to mind. Some small market ownership does not seem to spend the sharing money they get. They get millions every year from the Yankees, maintain a team at a small profit or breakeven position, feed their ego by being able to say I own this team, and build up value to be able to sell the team later at a huge profit. MLB is trying to get a little towards the NFL and level the playing field between the teams for more competition, which puts more people in the seats. But as we all know some teams run their business better than others, pats vs the jaguars. The key for the sox here is they will have to combine the metrics, minor league coaching and excellent scouting to continue to bring in and develop high quality players not buy them in large numbers. Unfortunately Theo is in Chicago.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 2, 2016 8:23:24 GMT -5
I have one huge question that I'm not sure of and don't know if it's been said or not here-
If you're under the tax threshold and lose a QO free agent to another team, do you gain a first round comp pick or a second round comp pick?
I know if you're over the tax threshold you only get a 4th round pick.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Dec 2, 2016 11:50:22 GMT -5
Being from Wisconsin for over 40 years, comparing the Brewers to the Red Sox, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Brewers are owned by a guy whose net worth is below $500 million. Wisconsin borders Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa [which are almost entirely cups fans], and Illinois. You will find Wisconsin fans to be extremely loyal fans. They go to see the Brewers regardless of record. Us Wisconsinites like the tailgate. I am a marketing major and am far more aware of the Brewers marketing campaigns than anybody else on the website. Please don't compare the Brewers as being similar to the Red Sox.
My thoughts on the collective bargaining agreement is that it really limits and is slightly unfair to large market teams such as the Red Sox. Major-league baseball in my opinion as overcorrected the issue of competitive balance between all teams in baseball.
I wish the collective bargaining agreement would've made all draft picks tradable. I do like that you can trade for international pool money. It will be interesting to see the value of international pool money.
With this new collective bargaining agreement I think the Red Sox would be wise to trade a couple high salary players. I think Clay Bucholz and if they can unload Pablo Sandoval are moves that the Red Sox almost have to make. I think Clay has to be traded for sure. I do not see the Red Sox going over the luxury tax threshold very often in the future.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 2, 2016 14:23:16 GMT -5
Being from Wisconsin for over 40 years, comparing the Brewers to the Red Sox, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Brewers are owned by a guy whose net worth is below $500 million. Wisconsin borders Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa [which are almost entirely cups fans], and Illinois. You will find Wisconsin fans to be extremely loyal fans. They go to see the Brewers regardless of record. Us Wisconsinites like the tailgate. I am a marketing major and am far more aware of the Brewers marketing campaigns than anybody else on the website. Please don't compare the Brewers as being similar to the Red Sox. My thoughts on the collective bargaining agreement is that it really limits and is slightly unfair to large market teams such as the Red Sox. Major-league baseball in my opinion as overcorrected the issue of competitive balance between all teams in baseball. I wish the collective bargaining agreement would've made all draft picks tradable. I do like that you can trade for international pool money. It will be interesting to see the value of international pool money. With this new collective bargaining agreement I think the Red Sox would be wise to trade a couple high salary players. I think Clay Bucholz and if they can unload Pablo Sandoval are moves that the Red Sox almost have to make. I think Clay has to be traded for sure. I do not see the Red Sox going over the luxury tax threshold very often in the future. I'm thinking like Al with the new CBA. The trading of international pool money will be real interesting, and could be a way for a team like the Sox to still go over-board when a particular player interests them. I also wish we could trade picks in the US draft. That would be very entertaining and a way to use our money advantage. The 5 million + dollar limit for international players is a joke. I could see double that, but why such a low figure?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2016 15:12:28 GMT -5
www.listchallenges.com/top-100-largest-us-citiesI just don't buy that. There are places like New York and LA that have clear cut advantages. But Milwaukee is rated #22 and Boston is rated #21. Boston is closer to many so called small market teams than they are to NY and LA. The Red Sox have built a brand and that created die hard fans. I live in Western, MA and drive 2 and 1/2 hours to see my team. One reason the Red Sox had this fan base is because the owners try to win and spend money. I would not be such a die hard fan if the Red Sox did what the Marlins do. If the owners tore down a world series championship team I would probably not care about that team for years. I don't believe for one second teams would be better off moving to NY. You really think Yankee fans would become fans of another team? You think Red Sox fans would just jump ship to another team if they moved to Boston? It really seems that teams like Red Sox get penalized because they are good at creating a product the people can't live without. People complain that Tampa is hard to get to, so it kills revenue. I find that so funny, because me and all my friends drive almost 3 hours to see a game! If more owners cared about winning more than profits they could create a team and brand there fans can't live without and the profits will come. It's going to take time though and most owners care more about money than winning. Don't give me it's a business, we all know that. Business 101 is grow or die, small market teams don't do that because of lack of competition. Give Market Cuban a so called small market team and he'd have them in the large market team bracket in 10 years or less. Baseball is a cartel, like all professional sports leagues. They are businesses which band together and agree to act in the collective best interest, including dividing up the the market. Do I think that if the Rays moved from Tampa to New York tomorrow, they would immediately start taking fans from the Yankees? Of course not. But they WOULD, over the years, take some revenue from the Yankees and Mets. You are also using the wrong criteria to judge market size. Boston is the 8th largest media market. Milwaukee is 35th. That does not even take into account the innate differences between the markets, such as household income. Why do you think the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees all agree to share their revenues? Because it's in the groups collective best interest. Cartels are more profitable than invidual businesses, and they also disrupt competition (the Federal League was the last time someone seriously challenged MLB), which is why they are prohibited in most contexts. The Rays would go bankrupt well before they put any real dent in the Yankees revenue. Look at the Mets, in that market forever and they still don't come close to Yankees revenue. Where you going to put them? It just wouldn't work, not going against the Yankees. The Media market isn't more important than the population. The Red Sox own there own network, how many teams do that? The Yankees are the only other ones that come to mind. The Red Sox are what they are because the whole state of Massachusetts is die hard fans. Household income in Boston is not anywhere near that of NY and LA, the markets the Red Sox are grouped with. Again it's the Red Sox ability to have fans across the whole state of Massachusetts that gives them their revenue. I was born and raised in Adams, MA. Overall it's a poor town, as a found out while doing economic studies at UMASS. That never stopped me and my friends from traveling to Boston to see our team. That never stopped us from watching our team all the time. People in my town about as far away from Boston as you can get in Massachusetts were just as much die hard fans as people in Boston were. The Red Sox revenue is more about the culture they have create than the city of Boston. In Wisconsin the Packers have created that culture, the Brewers have not. I blame the owners of the Brewers, not the market they play in. The Red Sox and Yankees don't have a choice when it comes to sharing their revenue. There are so many cheap owners that they out number the good owners so they get what they want. All these cheap owners push for a soft cap, then there should be a spending floor in my opinion. So they can't just pocket the revenue shared money like they currently do.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2016 15:34:48 GMT -5
www.listchallenges.com/top-100-largest-us-citiesI just don't buy that. There are places like New York and LA that have clear cut advantages. But Milwaukee is rated #22 and Boston is rated #21. Boston is closer to many so called small market teams than they are to NY and LA. The Red Sox have built a brand and that created die hard fans. I live in Western, MA and drive 2 and 1/2 hours to see my team. One reason the Red Sox had this fan base is because the owners try to win and spend money. I would not be such a die hard fan if the Red Sox did what the Marlins do. If the owners tore down a world series championship team I would probably not care about that team for years. I don't believe for one second teams would be better off moving to NY. You really think Yankee fans would become fans of another team? You think Red Sox fans would just jump ship to another team if they moved to Boston? It really seems that teams like Red Sox get penalized because they are good at creating a product the people can't live without. People complain that Tampa is hard to get to, so it kills revenue. I find that so funny, because me and all my friends drive almost 3 hours to see a game! If more owners cared about winning more than profits they could create a team and brand there fans can't live without and the profits will come. It's going to take time though and most owners care more about money than winning. Don't give me it's a business, we all know that. Business 101 is grow or die, small market teams don't do that because of lack of competition. Give Market Cuban a so called small market team and he'd have them in the large market team bracket in 10 years or less. The northeast US seems to have a much less transient group of people living there than in other parts of the country. I live in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of NC and at least half of the people have moved here in the last 30 years. That makes it almost impossible to have a strong fanbase of any sport other than college basketball (because a good chunk of the people who moved here went to college here). You don't have generations of fans and traditions to build on. Probably half of the fans who go to Carolina Hurricanes games go to see the other teams because they're fans of those teams and not the Hurricanes and they've been here almost 20 years. This happens all over in newer markets. Newer fans are not as loyal to their teams either. They show up when they win. If they ever brought a MLB team here, I'd only go to Red Sox games and cheer for the Red Sox and would never root for the new team. A good reason why that is the case is that I'm able to watch the Red Sox every night and am not forced to only watch the home team. You couldn't do that not long ago either. I take it that you lived in Massachusetts before you moved? It happens all the time, Red Sox fans are die hards so even when they move they stay Red Sox fans. This is the culture I talk about, it's what makes the Red Sox who they are. At the same time people that move to Massachusetts usually will become Red Sox fans in time, well unless they were Yankee fans. Give Mark Cuban a Baseball team in your area and he'll create a culture that will attract fans and in time make them die hard fans. In certain areas it's harder I agree, but it can be done with the right owners. It's all about the owners. Tampa is a very hard place, but it's not because Tampa is too small a place with not enough people and money. It just has a ton of snowbirds and people that have moved there recently. It's going to be hard, but you can create a Baseball culture there. You just need the right owners willing to spend to make it happen. An owner that keeps the generational talent like David Price in Tampa. Your not going to create a culture of die hard fans by trading all your good players away. Young fans watching people like Price for his whole career and maybe one day go to Baseball hall of fame is what gets fans hooked and watching games.
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Post by ryan24 on Dec 2, 2016 16:16:06 GMT -5
Baseball is a cartel, like all professional sports leagues. They are businesses which band together and agree to act in the collective best interest, including dividing up the the market. Do I think that if the Rays moved from Tampa to New York tomorrow, they would immediately start taking fans from the Yankees? Of course not. But they WOULD, over the years, take some revenue from the Yankees and Mets. You are also using the wrong criteria to judge market size. Boston is the 8th largest media market. Milwaukee is 35th. That does not even take into account the innate differences between the markets, such as household income. Why do you think the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees all agree to share their revenues? Because it's in the groups collective best interest. Cartels are more profitable than invidual businesses, and they also disrupt competition (the Federal League was the last time someone seriously challenged MLB), which is why they are prohibited in most contexts. The Rays would go bankrupt well before they put any real dent in the Yankees revenue. Look at the Mets, in that market forever and they still don't come close to Yankees revenue. Where you going to put them? It just wouldn't work, not going against the Yankees. The Media market isn't more important than the population. The Red Sox own there own network, how many teams do that? The Yankees are the only other ones that come to mind. The Red Sox are what they are because the whole state of Massachusetts is die hard fans. Household income in Boston is not anywhere near that of NY and LA, the markets the Red Sox are grouped with. Again it's the Red Sox ability to have fans across the whole state of Massachusetts that gives them their revenue. I was born and raised in Adams, MA. Overall it's a poor town, as a found out while doing economic studies at UMASS. That never stopped me and my friends from traveling to Boston to see our team. That never stopped us from watching our team all the time. People in my town about as far away from Boston as you can get in Massachusetts were just as much die hard fans as people in Boston were. The Red Sox revenue is more about the culture they have create than the city of Boston. In Wisconsin the Packers have created that culture, the Brewers have not. I blame the owners of the Brewers, not the market they play in. The Red Sox and Yankees don't have a choice when it comes to sharing their revenue. There are so many cheap owners that they out number the good owners so they get what they want. All these cheap owners push for a soft cap, then there should be a spending floor in my opinion. So they can't just pocket the revenue shared money like they currently do. Private businesses are run very differently than publically traded companies. The goals and objectives of privately held companies like a brewers team are very different than the sox and the yanks or GE. The sox and the yanks are run more on a for profit concept. than maybe the brewers. Agreed , I am very familiar with Adams and North Adams Mass. It is true that it is a good 2 to 3 hours to fenway. But you did not mention all the people that come from ALL OVER New England to watch the sox. Someone from Burlington has just as long if not longer drive. As in all businesses some are run better than others. In the real world the poorly run businesses do not survive. In the MLB the owners have monopolies so the need to compete is not as compelling. The business model's slant more towards their owner's personal needs whatever those are. Maybe the brewers owner likes pocketing the revenue sharing monies for himself.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 2, 2016 16:24:46 GMT -5
The northeast US seems to have a much less transient group of people living there than in other parts of the country. I live in Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of NC and at least half of the people have moved here in the last 30 years. That makes it almost impossible to have a strong fanbase of any sport other than college basketball (because a good chunk of the people who moved here went to college here). You don't have generations of fans and traditions to build on. Probably half of the fans who go to Carolina Hurricanes games go to see the other teams because they're fans of those teams and not the Hurricanes and they've been here almost 20 years. This happens all over in newer markets. Newer fans are not as loyal to their teams either. They show up when they win. If they ever brought a MLB team here, I'd only go to Red Sox games and cheer for the Red Sox and would never root for the new team. A good reason why that is the case is that I'm able to watch the Red Sox every night and am not forced to only watch the home team. You couldn't do that not long ago either. I take it that you lived in Massachusetts before you moved? It happens all the time, Red Sox fans are die hards so even when they move they stay Red Sox fans. This is the culture I talk about, it's what makes the Red Sox who they are. At the same time people that move to Massachusetts usually will become Red Sox fans in time, well unless they were Yankee fans. Give Mark Cuban a Baseball team in your area and he'll create a culture that will attract fans and in time make them die hard fans. In certain areas it's harder I agree, but it can be done with the right owners. It's all about the owners. Tampa is a very hard place, but it's not because Tampa is too small a place with not enough people and money. It just has a ton of snowbirds and people that have moved there recently. It's going to be hard, but you can create a Baseball culture there. You just need the right owners willing to spend to make it happen. An owner that keeps the generational talent like David Price in Tampa. Your not going to create a culture of die hard fans by trading all your good players away. Young fans watching people like Price for his whole career and maybe one day go to Baseball hall of fame is what gets fans hooked and watching games. I grew up in NH and VT in the 70s and 80s. I think it's hard to build a new huge baseball market because baseball has way more competition from other sports now than it did 100 years ago when baseball was the only major sport and the local team was the only team you could root for because of no national tv and no internet. Red Sox traditions go back many generations. Parents pass that down to kids. Except in my case, my dad was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, then a Washington Senators fan when he lived near DC and finally became a Red Sox fan when he moved to NH since he didn't really have a team anymore (was not interested in the Dodgers after they moved or the Senators after they became the Twins). I went to a few Sox games in Tampa and at least half the fans were Red Sox fans. I just don't know how the Rays could ever turn Sox or Yankees fans into Rays fans. We're too loyal. And those are a huge percentage of baseball fans who will ever go to those games.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 2, 2016 16:36:39 GMT -5
Important details on the international market that haven't been mentioned yet.
1) Signing penalties that were in place for the 2016-2017 signing period will carry over to the new deal (teams that went over the last two years)
2) Signing bonuses of 10,000 or less will not count against the bonus cap
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 2, 2016 16:42:37 GMT -5
I take it that you lived in Massachusetts before you moved? It happens all the time, Red Sox fans are die hards so even when they move they stay Red Sox fans. This is the culture I talk about, it's what makes the Red Sox who they are. At the same time people that move to Massachusetts usually will become Red Sox fans in time, well unless they were Yankee fans. Give Mark Cuban a Baseball team in your area and he'll create a culture that will attract fans and in time make them die hard fans. In certain areas it's harder I agree, but it can be done with the right owners. It's all about the owners. Tampa is a very hard place, but it's not because Tampa is too small a place with not enough people and money. It just has a ton of snowbirds and people that have moved there recently. It's going to be hard, but you can create a Baseball culture there. You just need the right owners willing to spend to make it happen. An owner that keeps the generational talent like David Price in Tampa. Your not going to create a culture of die hard fans by trading all your good players away. Young fans watching people like Price for his whole career and maybe one day go to Baseball hall of fame is what gets fans hooked and watching games. I grew up in NH and VT in the 70s and 80s. I think it's hard to build a new huge baseball market because baseball has way more competition from other sports now than it did 100 years ago when baseball was the only major sport and the local team was the only team you could root for because of no national tv and no internet. Red Sox traditions go back many generations. Parents pass that down to kids. Except in my case, my dad was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, then a Washington Senators fan when he lived near DC and finally became a Red Sox fan when he moved to NH since he didn't really have a team anymore (was not interested in the Dodgers after they moved or the Senators after they became the Twins). I went to a few Sox games in Tampa and at least half the fans were Red Sox fans. I just don't know how the Rays could ever turn Sox or Yankees fans into Rays fans. We're too loyal. And those are a huge percentage of baseball fans who will ever go to those games. They need to get the young fans to become Devil Ray fans and they then pass that down to there kids. They need to create a Baseball culture in Tampa. It amazes me that Baseball doesn't want a Mark Cuban as an owner, because he's just the type of owner that could do it. Look what he did for the Mavericks, they were just like Tampa. Considered a poor franchise and he's made them into a place were free agents are now willing to consider.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 2, 2016 19:03:55 GMT -5
Being from Wisconsin for over 40 years, comparing the Brewers to the Red Sox, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Brewers are owned by a guy whose net worth is below $500 million. Wisconsin borders Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa [which are almost entirely cups fans], and Illinois. You will find Wisconsin fans to be extremely loyal fans. They go to see the Brewers regardless of record. Us Wisconsinites like the tailgate. I am a marketing major and am far more aware of the Brewers marketing campaigns than anybody else on the website. Please don't compare the Brewers as being similar to the Red Sox. My thoughts on the collective bargaining agreement is that it really limits and is slightly unfair to large market teams such as the Red Sox. Major-league baseball in my opinion as overcorrected the issue of competitive balance between all teams in baseball. I wish the collective bargaining agreement would've made all draft picks tradable. I do like that you can trade for international pool money. It will be interesting to see the value of international pool money. With this new collective bargaining agreement I think the Red Sox would be wise to trade a couple high salary players. I think Clay Bucholz and if they can unload Pablo Sandoval are moves that the Red Sox almost have to make. I think Clay has to be traded for sure. I do not see the Red Sox going over the luxury tax threshold very often in the future. I'm thinking like Al with the new CBA. The trading of international pool money will be real interesting, and could be a way for a team like the Sox to still go over-board when a particular player interests them. I also wish we could trade picks in the US draft. That would be very entertaining and a way to use our money advantage. The 5 million + dollar limit for international players is a joke. I could see double that, but why such a low figure? They are trying to even out the money made between American drafted players and international amateur players. The hard cap essentially does that. Now you won't be seeing 19 year old international amateur players get 30 million while 21 American college players get 5 million after being a first overall pick.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Dec 7, 2016 0:03:58 GMT -5
www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-18-international-bonus-pools/2017-18 International Bonus Pools $5.75 Million Arizona Diamondbacks Baltimore Orioles Cleveland Indians Colorado Rockies Pittsburgh Pirates Kansas City Royals 300K max San Diego Padres 300K max St. Louis Cardinals 300K max $5.25 Million Miami Marlins Milwaukee Brewers Minnesota Twins Tampa Bay Rays Cincinnati Reds 300K max Oakland Athletics 300K max $4.75 Million Boston Red Sox Chicago White Sox Detroit Tigers Los Angeles Angels New York Mets New York Yankees Philadelphia Phillies Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers Toronto Blue Jays Atlanta Braves 300K max Chicago Cubs 300K max Houston Astros 300K max Los Angeles Dodgers 300K max San Francisco Giants 300K max Washington Nationals 300K max
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Post by kman22 on Dec 7, 2016 8:42:59 GMT -5
www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-18-international-bonus-pools/2017-18 International Bonus Pools $5.75 Million Arizona Diamondbacks Baltimore Orioles Cleveland Indians Colorado Rockies Pittsburgh Pirates Kansas City Royals 300K max San Diego Padres 300K max St. Louis Cardinals 300K max $5.25 Million Miami Marlins Milwaukee Brewers Minnesota Twins Tampa Bay Rays Cincinnati Reds 300K max Oakland Athletics 300K max $4.75 Million Boston Red Sox Chicago White Sox Detroit Tigers Los Angeles Angels New York Mets New York Yankees Philadelphia Phillies Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers Toronto Blue Jays Atlanta Braves 300K max Chicago Cubs 300K max Houston Astros 300K max Los Angeles Dodgers 300K max San Francisco Giants 300K max Washington Nationals 300K max Can teams still trade pool money for IFAs?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 22, 2016 12:28:11 GMT -5
www.baseballamerica.com/international/2017-18-international-bonus-pools/2017-18 International Bonus Pools $5.75 Million Arizona Diamondbacks Baltimore Orioles Cleveland Indians Colorado Rockies Pittsburgh Pirates Kansas City Royals 300K max San Diego Padres 300K max St. Louis Cardinals 300K max $5.25 Million Miami Marlins Milwaukee Brewers Minnesota Twins Tampa Bay Rays Cincinnati Reds 300K max Oakland Athletics 300K max $4.75 Million Boston Red Sox Chicago White Sox Detroit Tigers Los Angeles Angels New York Mets New York Yankees Philadelphia Phillies Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers Toronto Blue Jays Atlanta Braves 300K max Chicago Cubs 300K max Houston Astros 300K max Los Angeles Dodgers 300K max San Francisco Giants 300K max Washington Nationals 300K max Can teams still trade pool money for IFAs? Yes, you can trade for another 75% of your initial pool and trade away all of your pool. So the Red Sox could trade for another ~$3.56M, for example. And I don't believe there's anymore of that weird "slot" thing where you traded one of four values you'd been assigned.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 28, 2017 17:45:53 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 28, 2017 17:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 28, 2017 23:11:30 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 28, 2017 23:13:13 GMT -5
Other examples of illegal behavior include:
• Promising a player he will be on the major league roster by a certain date. • Releasing a player as part of a scheme to exclude his next contract from being subject to the bonus pools. • Promising to sign a player to a major league contract in the future. • Promising a player a higher minor league salary during future years under his minor league contract.
Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/cba-targets-international-signing-violations/#K8d9Wu3OFEgroyOd.99
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2017 14:45:12 GMT -5
The biggest issue to the longterm health of the game is clearly pace of play but they will never address the issue seriously so the youngest generation will continue to have less and less interest in the game than those before them.
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