jbuttah
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Post by jbuttah on Apr 7, 2017 20:57:43 GMT -5
Manuel Margot hits two Homeruns today and Farrell cant pitch Kimbrel who hasnt pitched in a couple of days smh That deal is just going to look worse and worse as time goes on and it looked pretty bad from the start This deal will be in the argument of which was worse, this one or the A. Espinoza trade.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 21:01:01 GMT -5
This is a time where managing to the save is just insanity. There's a huge gap between Kimbrel and their next best reliever, and Cabrera and Martinez were due up in the inning. It's hard for me to blame Farrell because every single manager in baseball would use the same orthodox bullpen alignment, but it's just nuts. If Miguel Cabrera is the tying run in the 8th inning of a one-run game, you need to have your best pitcher on him. Very well said. I wish more managers, not just Farrell, would manage the situation. That game was won or lost in the 8th inning, and Farrell didn't go to his best reliever in the most high leverage spot. I think Farrell gets too much blame in general, but his bullpen management is puzzling at times.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 7, 2017 21:04:28 GMT -5
Is there ever a time that managing to the save isn't insane? I think there are a lot of situations where saving your best reliever for the ninth inning is really sensible. One reason relievers are posting such fantastic numbers is their rigid usage patterns. Taking a pitcher out of that usage pattern will limit the effectiveness some. So you're right in the sense that a manager should never manage to the statistic itself, but the orthodoxy behind the usage patterns probably makes more sense in many situations than we give credit for. And what do I know - Cabrera is the guy I'd have most wanted Kimbrel to be in for, and Hembree struck him out. It was the bottom of the order that really ended up killing them.
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Post by thursty on Apr 7, 2017 21:26:45 GMT -5
As for the so-called "news" that Manuel Margot hit 2 HRs; sorry, that's not possible. I've read on good authority that Dombrowski only trades "busts"
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Post by telluricrook on Apr 7, 2017 21:29:24 GMT -5
Koji Would still be able to get the job done!
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 7, 2017 21:32:11 GMT -5
As for the so-called "news" that Manuel Margot hit 2 HRs; sorry, that's not possible. I've read on good authority that Dombrowski only trades "busts" Okay we get it.
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Post by rookie13 on Apr 7, 2017 21:32:45 GMT -5
I understand the frustration behind his usage of the bullpen, but why even reference the Margot for Kimbrel trade? Even if we still had Margot it's not like there's a spot in the OF for him to take. I'd still rather have Kimbrel.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 7, 2017 21:37:16 GMT -5
Part of me wants to avoid relitigating Margot-for-Kimbrel again, but holy cow the team started a barely breathing Brock Holt at DH, a 63-year-old Chris Young in right field, and hit Mitch Moreland cleanup. There has to have been a better value for him than "reliever who you're not going to have face Miguel Cabrera in a one-run game in the 8th inning."
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 7, 2017 21:39:43 GMT -5
People can't complain about Farrell overusing Tazawa while also complaining about him not using Kimbrel in the third game in a row in the first 3 games of the season. Like, it's one or the other.
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jbuttah
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Post by jbuttah on Apr 7, 2017 21:44:29 GMT -5
People can't complain about Farrell overusing Tazawa while also complaining about him not using Kimbrel in the third game in a row in the first 3 games of the season. Like, it's one or the other. To be fair, people were complaining that he was burning Tazawa by constantly using him in low leverage situations.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 7, 2017 21:44:40 GMT -5
People can't complain about Farrell overusing Tazawa while also complaining about him not using Kimbrel in the third game in a row in the first 3 games of the season. Like, it's one or the other. None of those games were on consecutive days and the team is shorthanded. And he'd have used Kimbrel if he'd gotten to the ninth. (And if he'd blown it there would absolutely be people on here complaining about his overuse, but I'd be defending Farrell on that.)
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 7, 2017 21:54:33 GMT -5
That deal is just going to look worse and worse as time goes on and it looked pretty bad from the start This deal will be in the argument of which was worse, this one or the A. Espinoza trade. Espinoza may need TJ surgery. He is on the DL with elbow issues.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 7, 2017 21:55:59 GMT -5
Part of me wants to avoid relitigating Margot-for-Kimbrel again, but holy cow the team started a barely breathing Brock Holt at DH, a 63-year-old Chris Young in right field, and hit Mitch Moreland cleanup. There has to have been a better value for him than "reliever who you're not going to have face Miguel Cabrera in a one-run game in the 8th inning." With Betts healthy Where would Margot play? If he wasn't traded for kimbrel he would have been traded for someone else.
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Post by thursty on Apr 7, 2017 21:58:52 GMT -5
I feel for Farrell (no really). Look at the "cardinal rules" of this bullpen: - Never let Abad face a RH in high-leverage - Never let Scott face a RH in high-leverage - Never let Hembree face a LH in high-leverage - Never let Kimbrel pitch in any situation that takes him out of his rocking chair closer role.
As much as it's become a meme to point out the failure of the Red Sox to develop any homegrown starting pitcher, what's even more egregious is their failure to develop any valuable high-leverage relievers (since Bard really). All those high picks spent on pitchers - Ranaudo, Barnes, Ball, Light (there was a moment in time when I had high hopes for him because he had a swing-and-miss pitch), Owens, Johnson, even Webster and De la Rosa they acquired in the Punto trade . . . couldn't like *one* of them become a Brad Bach? Baltimore and Tampa seem to grow good relievers on trees; Britton, who is twice as valuable as Kimbrel, is a failed starter - the Red Sox have plenty of those.
One common trait that I've noticed is none of their pitchers have deception - a Cueto shimmy, a Kershaw hesitation - something. Joe Kelly touches 100 but he doesn't get swings and misses
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 7, 2017 22:03:34 GMT -5
Part of me wants to avoid relitigating Margot-for-Kimbrel again, but holy cow the team started a barely breathing Brock Holt at DH, a 63-year-old Chris Young in right field, and hit Mitch Moreland cleanup. There has to have been a better value for him than "reliever who you're not going to have face Miguel Cabrera in a one-run game in the 8th inning." With Betts healthy Where would Margot play? If he wasn't traded for kimbrel he would have been traded for someone else.That's the point, yes.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 7, 2017 22:12:47 GMT -5
Part of me wants to avoid relitigating Margot-for-Kimbrel again, but holy cow the team started a barely breathing Brock Holt at DH, a 63-year-old Chris Young in right field, and hit Mitch Moreland cleanup. There has to have been a better value for him than "reliever who you're not going to have face Miguel Cabrera in a one-run game in the 8th inning." With Betts healthy Where would Margot play? Chicago, ideally.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 7, 2017 22:53:25 GMT -5
I think the mistake made today was taking out Hembree. He had two outs and 2 on it's the third game Of the season. It's not like He'd just thrown 8 straight balls no where near the plate. You need to let him go there. It's a bad tone setter in game three to give up on him so quick now the entire season the bullpen gets to pitch scared to make mistakes or they will get pulled.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 8, 2017 0:18:19 GMT -5
Well that was up and down. Looks like a lot of you had the same idea that crossed my mind: bring in the closerâ„¢. Hatfield's said it before, early season games are as important as late season games, and it's true. But how many people on this board have made noise about Kelly's potential as a reliever? You know who you are.
So Farrell has to find out what he has; whether the failed starter can successfully re-invent himself as a set-up man. There's only one way to do that and early in the season has got to be better than the heat of a pennant race. Kelly may pitch himself right out of a job. First, however, he has to actually pitch. Usage has got to be on Farrell's mind also. Kimbrel tired visibly at the end of last year, to the point where two consecutive days was one day too many. That's not good for the role he's expected to play.
Until Thornburg and Smith make their way back, the team will probably be trying out multiple options. I hope one of those is giving Taylor a bigger role as the season moves on. He was in for just one batter but there's a lot to like from what I saw. He can actually - wait for it - find the plate, and his stuff looks a bit nasty. Right now he's a two-pitch guy but it looks as if those are two very good pitches. I'm eager to see more. And Hembree did a good job, though he was just missing the plate as he got his pitch count into the high teens and he tired. He's going to be part of this.
Lastly, Sandoval is working hard to make me a believer. The bat speed is still there and he's making contact this season - so far. I don't think the offense is going to be a problem, which others have been saying all along. That relief corps needs to sort itself out, though, and while it's early, Kelly may work his way to the bottom of that list if he can't find the plate.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 8, 2017 2:55:48 GMT -5
I understand the frustration behind his usage of the bullpen, but why even reference the Margot for Kimbrel trade? Even if we still had Margot it's not like there's a spot in the OF for him to take. I'd still rather have Kimbrel. You obviously don't understand the fine art of trolling whenever an opportunity presents itself.
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Post by tomhouse on Apr 8, 2017 6:20:44 GMT -5
Manuel Margot hits two Homeruns today and Farrell cant pitch Kimbrel who hasnt pitched in a couple of days smh He has two singles and a double (3 for 15) in the other four Padres games.
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Post by cba82 on Apr 8, 2017 7:04:49 GMT -5
I think the mistake made today was taking out Hembree. He had two outs and 2 on it's the third game Of the season. It's not like He'd just thrown 8 straight balls no where near the plate. You need to let him go there. It's a bad tone setter in game three to give up on him so quick now the entire season the bullpen gets to pitch scared to make mistakes or they will get pulled. Hembree threw 30 pitches to get two outs. Does he have to nibble to try to get the called third strike? How about inducing a ground ball? Infuriating to watch.
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Post by dnfl333 on Apr 8, 2017 7:05:22 GMT -5
Vintage Farrell
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 8, 2017 8:27:17 GMT -5
I think the mistake made today was taking out Hembree. He had two outs and 2 on it's the third game Of the season. It's not like He'd just thrown 8 straight balls no where near the plate. You need to let him go there. It's a bad tone setter in game three to give up on him so quick now the entire season the bullpen gets to pitch scared to make mistakes or they will get pulled. Hembree threw 30 pitches to get two outs. Does he have to nibble to try to get the called third strike? How about inducing a ground ball? Infuriating to watch. Not arguing he was lights out, but you should put more faith in him... go to the mound talk to him and give him the chance to get out of things. Then re-evaluate his outing.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 8, 2017 10:42:24 GMT -5
Joe Kelly unavailable today with the flu
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 8, 2017 12:10:39 GMT -5
Joe Kelly unavailable today with the flu Someone needs to find a cure for viruses for the sake of this ballteam.
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