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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 20:13:46 GMT -5
I said I'd go for a solid, cost-controlled reliever. You know I said that because you liked another comment. It's a gamble because he's proven to be an insanely streaky hitter and he's gotten worse overall each of the last few years. His tremendous hot streak and he's still terrible for the year. He just raised his WAR from 0.0 to 0.5. There is zero gamble to keeping him, not a major gamble. What would be a major gamble is assuming you could replace him whatsoever in the near term. People underestimate the need for 2 very good center fielders in Fenway. As a very, very quick exercise I mentioned you could get Billy Hamilton on the cheap. Garbage bat, but fantastic OFer who would add speed. He's had a better overall season if you go solely on WAR, but JBJ has far superior upside. When he's hot, JBJ has shown he's capable of carrying a team. When he's cold the team stagnates on offense when you have him hitting with Nunez, Holt, Leon. I think you could get real value for him now to help this current team and beyond and can find an adequate stop-gap. Benny was a CFer coming up and Betts was a very good one before moving to right. Honestly, Hamilton was really just off the top of the head, but now I really actually want him as at least a 4OF.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 21, 2019 20:43:43 GMT -5
They could get a very good, cost-controlled piece in return. I would think. ...why?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 20:47:21 GMT -5
They could get a very good, cost-controlled piece in return. I would think. ...why? Because JBJ isn't very a very good player on the average and they could use another arm in the pen. They could find a suitable gap filler on the cheap. He's scorching right now which is the point. He has value now. If he can sustain, great. It's a risk.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 21, 2019 20:56:20 GMT -5
Because JBJ isn't very a very good player on the average and they could use another arm in the pen. They could find a suitable gap filler on the cheap. He's scorching right now which is the point. He has value now. If he can sustain, great. It's a risk. If he's not a very good player on average, why would the Red Sox be able to get anything significant back for him?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:07:49 GMT -5
Because JBJ isn't very a very good player on the average and they could use another arm in the pen. They could find a suitable gap filler on the cheap. He's scorching right now which is the point. He has value now. If he can sustain, great. It's a risk. If he's not a very good player on average, why would the Red Sox be able to get anything significant back for him? Because he's hitting currently and someone might want to take that gamble. His reputation on defense also probably exceeds reality. Clearly you seem to disagree on his value and feel the opposite.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 21, 2019 21:12:53 GMT -5
If he's not a very good player on average, why would the Red Sox be able to get anything significant back for him? Because he's hitting currently and someone might want to take that gamble. His reputation on defense also probably exceeds reality. Clearly you seem to disagree on his value and feel the opposite. Yeah I doubt any teams are going to be particularly swayed by the fact that he's been hot for a few weeks. Bradley is a mature player who's been around for a long time, everyone knows what he is.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:17:45 GMT -5
Because he's hitting currently and someone might want to take that gamble. His reputation on defense also probably exceeds reality. Clearly you seem to disagree on his value and feel the opposite. Yeah I doubt any teams are going to be particularly swayed by the fact that he's been hot for a few weeks. Bradley is a mature player who's been around for a long time, everyone knows what he is. So, I'm confused, do you agree on his value then and think the Sox couldn't net a good return anyways and are this stuck with him?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 21:24:38 GMT -5
We have a competitor for dmaineah.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 21, 2019 21:25:34 GMT -5
Yeah I doubt any teams are going to be particularly swayed by the fact that he's been hot for a few weeks. Bradley is a mature player who's been around for a long time, everyone knows what he is. So, I'm confused, do you agree on his value then and think the Sox couldn't net a good return anyways and are this stuck with him? You're talking about getting a "very good, cost controlled piece" for JBJ, and I'm saying you're not going to get anyone who's particularly better or particularly more cost-controlled than JBJ in return for him.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:32:46 GMT -5
So, I'm confused, do you agree on his value then and think the Sox couldn't net a good return anyways and are this stuck with him? You're talking about getting a "very good, cost controlled piece" for JBJ, and I'm saying you're not going to get anyone who's particularly better or particularly more cost-controlled than JBJ in return for him. I'd be curious, you're the GM of a team and need a CFers, what do you think his value is worth? He's basically a 2 WAR CFer whose currently hot. He's controlled for a year and a half. Relievers don't have the same value as an every day regular. It's funny, In a round about way, it sounds as though you're still agreeing with me. That he's not that great and if you could pull the trigger, you would. You're arguing a team wouldn't even offer that, which I think is debatable.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 21:34:48 GMT -5
You still assume that you can rip off another team and call the Red Sox dumb for not doing it assuming they can rip them off. It's the dumbest argument ever.
And the difference between Billy Hamilton and JBJ is a lot more than any reliever that you're going to get for JBJ.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:36:35 GMT -5
You still assume that you can rip off another team and call the Red Sox dumb for not doing it assuming they can rip them off. It's the dumbest argument ever. Stop it. You were arguing JBJ was awesome and irreplaceable on this current team. Getting a middle reliever is not a rip off for a regular who can go on offensive runs and is in the middle of one.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 21:42:35 GMT -5
You still assume that you can rip off another team and call the Red Sox dumb for not doing it assuming they can rip them off. It's the dumbest argument ever. Stop it. You were arguing JBJ was awesome and irreplaceable on this current team. Getting a middle reliever is not a rip off for a regular who can go on offensive runs and is in the middle of one. It's f'ing retarded to put a hole in the Red Sox outfield for a middle reliever. Plus, you assume that he's worth the 0.2 WAR he has this year, despite that he's had 1.4 in the last month and that his previous 2 seasons of 5 wins is somehow now meaningless. Or 10 wins if you go back 3 years. What middle relief pitcher is worth 2.5 wins per year? Or 1.4 wins in a single month?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 21:44:39 GMT -5
You're the most fucking annoying person I've ever talked to in my life. I'm going to have to leave this place. Congratulations.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:54:24 GMT -5
Stop it. You were arguing JBJ was awesome and irreplaceable on this current team. Getting a middle reliever is not a rip off for a regular who can go on offensive runs and is in the middle of one. It's f'ing retarded to put a hole in the Red Sox outfield for a middle reliever. Plus, you assume that he's worth the 0.2 WAR he has this year, despite that he's had 1.4 in the last month and that his previous 2 seasons of 5 wins is somehow now meaningless. What middle relief pitcher is worth 2.5 wins per year? Or 1.4 wins in a single month? What nonsense are you speaking? You're talking out of both sides of your damn mouth. On one hand you say no team is dumb enough to even offer a middle reliever for JBJ, but the next you say trading him would create this hole that the team couldn't possibly fill. So which is it? Does he suck so bad that you can't move him or is he too good to move? Where are you getting those numbers for him? This year, on the season, he's worth 0.5. www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bradlja02.shtmlHe also had a WAR of 2.1 last year and 3.0 the year before. Where are you getting 5? Unless you're just adding up the 2 years together.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 21:55:48 GMT -5
He's worth way more than any middle relief pitcher you idiot. Only the best possible closers come close to 2.5 wins per year.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 21:58:01 GMT -5
You're the most fucking annoying person I've ever talked to in my life. I'm going to have to leave this place. Congratulations. You're the one whose constantly crying and whining and being an absolute baby whenever someone is critical of anything Red Sox. I constantly have posted stats, links, and articles to justify my position. I don't just spat shit and throw it into the wind. You just post your gut feelings about everything and get angry. Again, you're saying no one would offer that, then you're saying it's not enough of a return. Which is it?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 22:01:36 GMT -5
He's worth way more than any middle relief pitcher you idiot. Only the best possible closers come close to 2.5 wins per year. And the Red Sox wouldn't fill that spot with someone else? Billy Hamilton has a 0.8 WAR and would cost nothing. Say they traded JBJ for a 1.0 WAR RP, you'd have to add JBJs replacement to the equation. So really it's 1.8. They wouldn't just not have a CFer. That's also assuming JBJ continues this uptrend. He's shown regression each of the last two seasons and was absolutely abysmal until late.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 22:02:27 GMT -5
You're the most fucking annoying person I've ever talked to in my life. I'm going to have to leave this place. Congratulations. You're the one whose constantly crying and whining and being an absolute baby whenever someone is critical of anything Red Sox. I constantly have posted stats, links, and articles to justify my position. I don't just spat shit and throw it into the wind. You just post your gut feelings about everything and get angry. Again, you're saying no one would offer that, then you're saying it's not enough of a return. Which is it? I'm angry because you annoy the fuck out of me and I'm not here to be annoyed. I'm here to discuss reasonable shit about the Red Sox because I'm not near Boston. But you are not reasonable. You are a pathetic baby who will cry if the Red Sox don't sweep a team by a big enough run differential and then cry about how they should be tanking while in a playoff spot because you're too afraid of them trying and failing to win.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 22:03:28 GMT -5
You're the one whose constantly crying and whining and being an absolute baby whenever someone is critical of anything Red Sox. I constantly have posted stats, links, and articles to justify my position. I don't just spat shit and throw it into the wind. You just post your gut feelings about everything and get angry. Again, you're saying no one would offer that, then you're saying it's not enough of a return. Which is it? I'm angry because you annoy the fuck out of me and I'm not here to be annoyed. I'm here to discuss reasonable shit about the Red Sox because I'm not near Boston. But you are not reasonable. You are a pathetic baby who will cry if the Red Sox don't sweep a team by a big enough run differential and then cry about how they should be tanking while in a playoff spot because you're too afraid of them trying and failing to win. Yeah, you clearly sound like you're here to speak reasonably. Yeah, I'm the baby. Whose the one that's crying, cursing, and throwing a tantrum because someone said they'd explore a JBJ trade because he's currently hot and that it's a risky bet to stay the course with him if you can get value now?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 22:04:50 GMT -5
I'm angry because you annoy the fuck out of me and I'm not here to be annoyed. I'm here to discuss reasonable shit about the Red Sox because I'm not near Boston. But you are not reasonable. You are a pathetic baby who will cry if the Red Sox don't sweep a team by a big enough run differential and then cry about how they should be tanking while in a playoff spot because you're too afraid of them trying and failing to win. Yeah, you clearly sound like you're here to speak reasonably. So do you. Go post 200 posts in the Math of the Red Sox thread, but wait to start posting until the next Red Sox loss.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 22:05:50 GMT -5
Yeah, you clearly sound like you're here to speak reasonably. So do you. Go post 200 posts in the Math of the Red Sox thread, but wait to start posting until the next Red Sox loss. Did you not see that huge ass post I made this morning in that thread or are you just raging?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2019 22:06:35 GMT -5
So do you. Go post 200 posts in the Math of the Red Sox thread, but wait to start posting until the next Red Sox loss. Did you not see that huge ass post I made this morning in that thread or are you just raging? This is my last reply to you forever. Have fun trolling others.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 21, 2019 22:11:09 GMT -5
Did you not see that huge ass post I made this morning in that thread or are you just raging? This is my last reply to you forever. Have fun trolling others. Exactly, whiney baby. See, I had no problem updating all the numbers after an impressive run by the Red Sox and congratulating them. I agreed with you against Pedro that it was a great series win over the Twins and liked what I saw from them. Heaven forbid someone disagrees with you or thinks a player is less than perfect. You really should calm down.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 21, 2019 22:16:14 GMT -5
You're talking about getting a "very good, cost controlled piece" for JBJ, and I'm saying you're not going to get anyone who's particularly better or particularly more cost-controlled than JBJ in return for him. I'd be curious, you're the GM of a team and need a CFers, what do you think his value is worth? He's basically a 2 WAR CFer whose currently hot. He's controlled for a year and a half. Relievers don't have the same value as an every day regular. It's funny, In a round about way, it sounds as though you're still agreeing with me. That he's not that great and if you could pull the trigger, you would. You're arguing a team wouldn't even offer that, which I think is debatable. Nothing that would make it a productive trade for a Red Sox team that doesn't have a good 4th outfielder.
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