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2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2017 8:57:46 GMT -5
Well either way it's not like selling all of your prospects increases the value of the team at all. So I think Henry is more concerned with the team doing well in both present and future than anything else, whether he plans on selling any time soon or not.
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art
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Post by art on Aug 3, 2017 8:58:30 GMT -5
The order I like when Pedey comes back: Pedroia Betts Devers Ramirez *Moreland if he's returned to form Bogaerts *Bradley catcher *Benintendi The three guys marked * are swapped around depending on how they're going. That's the order if they're all going well. I'd like to see Hanley batting 9th or, preferably, not at all. His slash lines this year: Runners in scoring position (112 PA): .168/.295/.263 Runners on base (184 PA): .194/.299/.325 Bases empty (205 PA): .299/.371/.527
He's doing a tremendous amount of damage batting cleanup or 5th -- damage to the Red Sox. Nunez should be in the lineup every day now but not Hanley.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 3, 2017 10:15:50 GMT -5
The order I like when Pedey comes back: Pedroia Betts Devers Ramirez *Moreland if he's returned to form Bogaerts *Bradley catcher *Benintendi The three guys marked * are swapped around depending on how they're going. That's the order if they're all going well. I'd like to see Hanley batting 9th or, preferably, not at all. His slash lines this year: Runners in scoring position (112 PA): .168/.295/.263 Runners on base (184 PA): .194/.299/.325 Bases empty (205 PA): .299/.371/.527
He's doing a tremendous amount of damage batting cleanup or 5th -- damage to the Red Sox. Nunez should be in the lineup every day now but not Hanley.I dunno, that .299/.371/.527 would look pretty nice from the leadoff spot.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 3, 2017 10:39:50 GMT -5
The order I like when Pedey comes back: Pedroia Betts Devers Ramirez *Moreland if he's returned to form Bogaerts *Bradley catcher *Benintendi The three guys marked * are swapped around depending on how they're going. That's the order if they're all going well. I'd like to see Hanley batting 9th or, preferably, not at all. His slash lines this year: Runners in scoring position (112 PA): .168/.295/.263 Runners on base (184 PA): .194/.299/.325 Bases empty (205 PA): .299/.371/.527
He's doing a tremendous amount of damage batting cleanup or 5th -- damage to the Red Sox. Nunez should be in the lineup every day now but not Hanley.Eric, Nunez came to the Sox as one of baseball's hottest bats, and he has actually improved at Fenway; while providing the bat the Sox were missing in July. Even if/when he cools off, he will remain an offensive asset with his speed and Green Monster power. IMO, even labelled as a super utility player, I would build him into the batting order in some manner, even with a **.
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Post by soxfanatic on Aug 3, 2017 10:47:59 GMT -5
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 3, 2017 11:26:21 GMT -5
Can you blame them? What they deserve criticism for is hiring him in the first place.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 3, 2017 11:38:51 GMT -5
Thank god Ownership stepped in and stopped this travesty. He's been as advertised. Overrated. He strips farms barren in order to try and chase a title everywhere he goes. Team could have Espinoza (Tommy John I know) Shaw (Possible NL MVP) Moncada Margot Kopech and others instead all they have to show for all of those deals more or less is Pomeranz Kimbrel and Sale. Fine players but 5 years from now give me Moncada Kopech Margot Shaw Espinoza and others. This guy has needed to go for a while now and can take Manager John with him. Trade Pedroia for a few prospects which they should have done two years ago. Team should be getting younger not aging. If he wants to do something good this offseason trade anyone on the roster over 31 and build like the Astros have. Put an emphasis back on player development. I never thought I would say the organization took a step back from Ben but at least we were flush with elite talent in the minors. Devers being promoted has put the Sox as a bottom 3 farm system maybe the worst in Baseball. Groome isn't a true #1 prospect he's shown more Trey Ball than anything else.
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Post by swooptech on Aug 3, 2017 11:47:51 GMT -5
Thank god Ownership stepped in and stopped this travesty. He's been as advertised. Overrated. He strips farms barren in order to try and chase a title everywhere he goes. Team could have Espinoza (Tommy John I know) Shaw (Possible NL MVP) Moncada Margot Kopech and others instead all they have to show for all of those deals more or less is Pomeranz Kimbrel and Sale. Fine players but 5 years from now give me Moncada Kopech Margot Shaw Espinoza and others. This guy has needed to go for a while now and can take Manager John with him. Trade Pedroia for a few prospects which they should have done two years ago. Team should be getting younger not aging. If he wants to do something good this offseason trade anyone on the roster over 31 and build like the Astros have. Put an emphasis back on player development. I never thought I would say the organization took a step back from Ben but at least we were flush with elite talent in the minors. Devers being promoted has put the Sox as a bottom 3 farm system maybe the worst in Baseball. Groome isn't a true #1 prospect he's shown more Trey Ball than anything else. Did you just call Chris Sale a 'fine player'?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 3, 2017 11:48:09 GMT -5
Thank god Ownership stepped in and stopped this travesty. He's been as advertised. Overrated. He strips farms barren in order to try and chase a title everywhere he goes. Team could have Espinoza (Tommy John I know) Shaw (Possible NL MVP) Moncada Margot Kopech and others instead all they have to show for all of those deals more or less is Pomeranz Kimbrel and Sale. Fine players but 5 years from now give me Moncada Kopech Margot Shaw Espinoza and others. This guy has needed to go for a while now and can take Manager John with him. Trade Pedroia for a few prospects which they should have done two years ago. Team should be getting younger not aging. If he wants to do something good this offseason trade anyone on the roster over 31 and build like the Astros have. Put an emphasis back on player development. I never thought I would say the organization took a step back from Ben but at least we were flush with elite talent in the minors. Devers being promoted has put the Sox as a bottom 3 farm system maybe the worst in Baseball. Groome isn't a true #1 prospect he's shown more Trey Ball than anything else. So you would rather prospects over a team that leads division? You will never get enough prospects to build a title contender, without making trades. We have gone through this before, no team has done that in recent memory. You never get the hitters and pitchers to line up. Trades are a massive part of team building to fill the holes in minor league system. Look at Theo with the Cubs for a perfect example. Much rather DD, than Ben. Any day of the week.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 3, 2017 12:20:22 GMT -5
For the life of me I cannot understand all of the Dombrowski hate. Sure he has made a questionable move or two, but so does just about every GM that ever existed. He did what he was brought in to do and that is make the Red Sox a contender.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 3, 2017 12:25:30 GMT -5
Thank god Ownership stepped in and stopped this travesty. He's been as advertised. Overrated. He strips farms barren in order to try and chase a title everywhere he goes. Team could have Espinoza (Tommy John I know) Shaw (Possible NL MVP) Moncada Margot Kopech and others instead all they have to show for all of those deals more or less is Pomeranz Kimbrel and Sale. Fine players but 5 years from now give me Moncada Kopech Margot Shaw Espinoza and others. This guy has needed to go for a while now and can take Manager John with him. Trade Pedroia for a few prospects which they should have done two years ago. Team should be getting younger not aging. If he wants to do something good this offseason trade anyone on the roster over 31 and build like the Astros have. Put an emphasis back on player development. I never thought I would say the organization took a step back from Ben but at least we were flush with elite talent in the minors. Devers being promoted has put the Sox as a bottom 3 farm system maybe the worst in Baseball. Groome isn't a true #1 prospect he's shown more Trey Ball than anything else. So you would rather prospects over a team that leads division? You will never get enough prospects to build a title contender, without making trades. We have gone through this before, no team has done that in recent memory. You never get the hitters and pitchers to line up. Trades are a massive part of team building to fill the holes in minor league system. Look at Theo with the Cubs for a perfect example. Much rather DD, than Ben. Any day of the week. You're looking at this short term. Look at Detroit. I'm sure 5 years ago they would have rather had Miggy and Verlander than top prospects. Now they're in financial hell and have no shot of contending any time soon. Thats what DD does best. Quick fixes that set up long term rebuilds. The Sox with all of those talented players were set for a decade of dominance once the prospects graduated. However the farm has been gutted to the point where the Sox have one of if not the worst farm system in all of baseball. Take away Groome and the farm that DD has built makes Dan Duquettes tenure in Boston look excellent. You don't even need to blow it up. Just deal Pedey Hanley Pomeranz Price Porcello Kimbrel for prospects in the offseason. Do the right thing and retool this team to get them back on the right track. The Yankees are where we thought the Sox would be this year 3 years ago. Its sickening.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 3, 2017 12:28:55 GMT -5
For the life of me I cannot understand all of the Dombrowski hate. Sure he has made a questionable move or two, but so does just about every GM that ever existed. He did what he was brought in to do and that is make the Red Sox a contender. Liking Dombrowski, but you're on a site called Sox Prospects.com talking about a guy who has traded a ton of prospects. It's a site that's going to appeal to those who prefer a long-term approach to organizational building. People disliking his style is understandable. It's like going to a vegetarian forum and wondering why there's all the hate for Peter Luger's.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 3, 2017 12:39:33 GMT -5
For the life of me I cannot understand all of the Dombrowski hate. Sure he has made a questionable move or two, but so does just about every GM that ever existed. He did what he was brought in to do and that is make the Red Sox a contender. Liking Dombrowski, but you're on a site called Sox Prospects.com talking about a guy who has traded a ton of prospects. It's a site that's going to appeal to those who prefer a long-term approach to organizational building. People disliking his style is understandable. It's like going to a vegetarian forum and wondering why there's all the hate for Peter Luger's. I do prefer a longer-term approach than going all in for a short term window but I also feel for the most part he has done both. They still have many pieces on the current team that should be building blocks for the next 3-5 years at least in Mookie, Benni, Devers, JBJ, and to a lesser extent Vazquez and Xander. I am certainly worried about not having much in the way of young pitching but that has more or less been a problem in the organization long before Dombrowski. The organization has seemingly done a pretty good job this year of injecting some prospects with decent upside as well.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 3, 2017 12:41:02 GMT -5
Agreed, at least in general. You also have to remember that there are a fair number of people who just hate everything.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2017 13:15:19 GMT -5
Agreed, at least in general. You also have to remember that there are a fair number of people who just hate everything. Like that ne'er-do-well rapscallion David Price.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 3, 2017 13:16:52 GMT -5
So you would rather prospects over a team that leads division? You will never get enough prospects to build a title contender, without making trades. We have gone through this before, no team has done that in recent memory. You never get the hitters and pitchers to line up. Trades are a massive part of team building to fill the holes in minor league system. Look at Theo with the Cubs for a perfect example. Much rather DD, than Ben. Any day of the week. You're looking at this short term. Look at Detroit. I'm sure 5 years ago they would have rather had Miggy and Verlander than top prospects. Now they're in financial hell and have no shot of contending any time soon. Thats what DD does best. Quick fixes that set up long term rebuilds. The Sox with all of those talented players were set for a decade of dominance once the prospects graduated. However the farm has been gutted to the point where the Sox have one of if not the worst farm system in all of baseball. Take away Groome and the farm that DD has built makes Dan Duquettes tenure in Boston look excellent. You don't even need to blow it up. Just deal Pedey Hanley Pomeranz Price Porcello Kimbrel for prospects in the offseason. Do the right thing and retool this team to get them back on the right track. The Yankees are where we thought the Sox would be this year 3 years ago. Its sickening. This is what drives me crazy about DD haters. Look at all of DD career. Detroit had an old owner that wanted to win at all cost, so DD did just that. You overlook the farm systems he build for Expos and Marlins. They fact he wins most trades he makes. The fact that Boston spends more money on draft and international players. If you love prospects you have to love our 2017 class. It's epic in the size and amount of high end talent. You really couldn't have asked for more. The fact he didn't trade a player like Mata when teams wanted him. Reports that our owners didn't want to further weaken system shows you exactly how different Boston is to Detriot. DD serves the owners, remember that. The owners sign off on the big trades. How would Detriot be better off if they didn't make the Miggy trade? That was an epic win for DD and Detriot. One of the better trades ever made. Verlander wasn't traded for, he was drafted if I remember right. The contracts are horrible, but the owner was very involved in those. Wanting those players to finish careers in Detriot. Look at his parting gift to Detriot, getting them a Young Ace for a rental bat. DD is very good at his job. The Yankees are just like us two years ago. Filled with a ton of great young hitters, but needing pitching. They are starting to make the same exact type of trades DD made. They have moved 4 prospects that are top 100 talent types for pitching. They will continue to do that or spend big on a free agent starter. They might do both. So I just don't get the love for the Yankees. Our roster is filled with former elite prospects. Some are simply having down years, that's all. Are future is very bright. While almost everything went right for Yankees in first half. A ton of things went wrong for us. We still have the more complete team. The majority of the team is still very young. The worry after this offseason while overblown made sense. It looked like we might have a 1-2 year gap in talent to help major league club. In 2017 a bunch of players stepping up has taken care of that though. Along with our great 2017 class, our future looks bright.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 3, 2017 14:33:23 GMT -5
I missed the kungfuizzy hot take.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 3, 2017 23:38:07 GMT -5
You're looking at this short term. Look at Detroit. I'm sure 5 years ago they would have rather had Miggy and Verlander than top prospects. Now they're in financial hell and have no shot of contending any time soon. Thats what DD does best. Quick fixes that set up long term rebuilds. The Sox with all of those talented players were set for a decade of dominance once the prospects graduated. However the farm has been gutted to the point where the Sox have one of if not the worst farm system in all of baseball. Take away Groome and the farm that DD has built makes Dan Duquettes tenure in Boston look excellent. You don't even need to blow it up. Just deal Pedey Hanley Pomeranz Price Porcello Kimbrel for prospects in the offseason. Do the right thing and retool this team to get them back on the right track. The Yankees are where we thought the Sox would be this year 3 years ago. Its sickening. This is what drives me crazy about DD haters. Look at all of DD career. Detroit had an old owner that wanted to win at all cost, so DD did just that. You overlook the farm systems he build for Expos and Marlins. They fact he wins most trades he makes. The fact that Boston spends more money on draft and international players. If you love prospects you have to love our 2017 class. It's epic in the size and amount of high end talent. You really couldn't have asked for more. The fact he didn't trade a player like Mata when teams wanted him. Reports that our owners didn't want to further weaken system shows you exactly how different Boston is to Detriot. DD serves the owners, remember that. The owners sign off on the big trades. How would Detriot be better off if they didn't make the Miggy trade? That was an epic win for DD and Detriot. One of the better trades ever made. Verlander wasn't traded for, he was drafted if I remember right. The contracts are horrible, but the owner was very involved in those. Wanting those players to finish careers in Detriot. Look at his parting gift to Detriot, getting them a Young Ace for a rental bat. DD is very good at his job. The Yankees are just like us two years ago. Filled with a ton of great young hitters, but needing pitching. They are starting to make the same exact type of trades DD made. They have moved 4 prospects that are top 100 talent types for pitching. They will continue to do that or spend big on a free agent starter. They might do both. So I just don't get the love for the Yankees. Our roster is filled with former elite prospects. Some are simply having down years, that's all. Are future is very bright. While almost everything went right for Yankees in first half. A ton of things went wrong for us. We still have the more complete team. The majority of the team is still very young. The worry after this offseason while overblown made sense. It looked like we might have a 1-2 year gap in talent to help major league club. In 2017 a bunch of players stepping up has taken care of that though. Along with our great 2017 class, our future looks bright. Not being able to sign high-priced int'l free agents on 7/1 for a couple of years because going over bonus has hurt us. And, the penalties because of illegal signings. I don't believe DD had a hand in either. Looks like we had a fine 7/1 this year with a little extra money to spend.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 4, 2017 0:51:02 GMT -5
This is what drives me crazy about DD haters. Look at all of DD career. Detroit had an old owner that wanted to win at all cost, so DD did just that. You overlook the farm systems he build for Expos and Marlins. They fact he wins most trades he makes. The fact that Boston spends more money on draft and international players. If you love prospects you have to love our 2017 class. It's epic in the size and amount of high end talent. You really couldn't have asked for more. The fact he didn't trade a player like Mata when teams wanted him. Reports that our owners didn't want to further weaken system shows you exactly how different Boston is to Detriot. DD serves the owners, remember that. The owners sign off on the big trades. How would Detriot be better off if they didn't make the Miggy trade? That was an epic win for DD and Detriot. One of the better trades ever made. Verlander wasn't traded for, he was drafted if I remember right. The contracts are horrible, but the owner was very involved in those. Wanting those players to finish careers in Detriot. Look at his parting gift to Detriot, getting them a Young Ace for a rental bat. DD is very good at his job. The Yankees are just like us two years ago. Filled with a ton of great young hitters, but needing pitching. They are starting to make the same exact type of trades DD made. They have moved 4 prospects that are top 100 talent types for pitching. They will continue to do that or spend big on a free agent starter. They might do both. So I just don't get the love for the Yankees. Our roster is filled with former elite prospects. Some are simply having down years, that's all. Are future is very bright. While almost everything went right for Yankees in first half. A ton of things went wrong for us. We still have the more complete team. The majority of the team is still very young. The worry after this offseason while overblown made sense. It looked like we might have a 1-2 year gap in talent to help major league club. In 2017 a bunch of players stepping up has taken care of that though. Along with our great 2017 class, our future looks bright. Not being able to sign high-priced int'l free agents on 7/1 for a couple of years because going over bonus has hurt us. And, the penalties because of illegal signings. I don't believe DD had a hand in either. Looks like we had a fine 7/1 this year with a little extra money to spend. Going over the pool was great for this system. It gave them Espinoza and Moncada. Two of the highest ceiling prospects this system has had in years.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 4, 2017 6:56:41 GMT -5
So you would rather prospects over a team that leads division? You will never get enough prospects to build a title contender, without making trades. We have gone through this before, no team has done that in recent memory. You never get the hitters and pitchers to line up. Trades are a massive part of team building to fill the holes in minor league system. Look at Theo with the Cubs for a perfect example. Much rather DD, than Ben. Any day of the week. You're looking at this short term. Look at Detroit. I'm sure 5 years ago they would have rather had Miggy and Verlander than top prospects. Now they're in financial hell and have no shot of contending any time soon. Thats what DD does best. Quick fixes that set up long term rebuilds. The Sox with all of those talented players were set for a decade of dominance once the prospects graduated. However the farm has been gutted to the point where the Sox have one of if not the worst farm system in all of baseball. Take away Groome and the farm that DD has built makes Dan Duquettes tenure in Boston look excellent. You don't even need to blow it up. Just deal Pedey Hanley Pomeranz Price Porcello Kimbrel for prospects in the offseason. Do the right thing and retool this team to get them back on the right track. The Yankees are where we thought the Sox would be this year 3 years ago. Its sickening. DD does what the owner wants. Henry and the gang want success long term. The farm will be rebuilt over the next couple of years. 2017 draft is a good start. umass is right you can not always grow what you need when you need it. Trades are always going to happen. All we got back in the trades was drew, kimbrel and sale. Well drew is a good 2or 3 starter depending on how you look at it. How many teams need a good 2 or 3 starter? Kimbrel is probably one on the top 5 closers in baseball and sale is one of the 2 or 3 best starters in baseball. You need those to compete for the playoffs and by the way we did not have any of those before DD came. To get something you have to give up something. Shaw is probably having a career year and good for him. Was he the future at 3rd no probably not. It HURT that the pitcher we got in return has /had arm problems. AE I thought was over rated to begin with. GREAT prospect but has not dominated but teased at low A. In my mind small body trying to throw 100 does not project well. High risk of injury. Margot, your choice you want him or beni in the outfield. Moncada, yikes!! He is hitting .100 and while his k's are better they are still kind of high. Still not great on defense. I think the jury is out on whether he is a star. Kopech of all the guys I like him the best. Sad to see he went in the trade. But, he is in AA and not dominating. Struggling with control. Not writing him off. Could be the second coming of Koufax. It looks to me like if DD did not make those moves we would be STILL a great farm system with lots of great prospects and still in last place in the division. Pedy is sox for life I do not see him getting traded. Hanley has one more year. After those 2 they have a young team in the field. I can see in a couple of years DD sizing up the team's ability to sign and pay for XB, JBJ and maybe betts . I can see DD moving 1 or 2 of them in a trade for PROSPECTS. WOW!! WHY the doom outlook. We have lots of NEW young guys to follow as prospects. I think the future looks bright.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 4, 2017 7:50:26 GMT -5
Not being able to sign high-priced int'l free agents on 7/1 for a couple of years because going over bonus has hurt us. And, the penalties because of illegal signings. I don't believe DD had a hand in either. Looks like we had a fine 7/1 this year with a little extra money to spend. Going over the pool was great for this system. It gave them Espinoza and Moncada. Two of the highest ceiling prospects this system has had in years. I didn't say they were bad moves. But, it also hindered signings for a few years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 4, 2017 20:35:30 GMT -5
Jay Bruce cleared Revocable Waivers today and can be traded at any point now.
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sdl
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Post by sdl on Aug 4, 2017 22:36:52 GMT -5
I used to live in South Florida and I saw DD's work first-hand. He built a World Champion team in 5 years after starting the Marlins from scratch. Unfortunately he had to deal with Wayne Huizenga who demanded he *destroy* the world championship team. If not for Huizenga, DD might've been able to build a dynasty in Miami.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 4, 2017 23:52:12 GMT -5
Still think Bruce makes sense if the cost is low and it works under tax line. Would be a massive upgrade over Young. Power bat for bench. Type of player that could make some big plays in Sept/Oct.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 4, 2017 23:55:37 GMT -5
While I'd love to see the Red Sox get Bruce, even with Moreland's GW blast, I think the Mets look at him as somebody they'd extend a QO for, so they're not going to dump him the way they'd dump a Curtis Granderson. The Sox would have to surrender some talent to get Bruce in addition to take on his 4 plus million $ assuming they'd still be under the limit.
I don't see the Red Sox giving up that talent at this point, unless Hanley's issues persist for a long time. Barring that I don't see it at this point, especially if Moreland is playing better/healthier.
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