SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2017 Trade Deadline Thread (Red Sox discussion)
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
|
Post by ericmvan on Aug 5, 2017 0:01:33 GMT -5
Jay Bruce cleared Revocable Waivers today and can be traded at any point now. Once everyone is healthy, the bench is full-up with Leon, Holt, Nunez, and Young. So the only way to get him on the roster right now, and keep him on through 9/1, would be to put Holt (605 OPS since his return) back on the DL. That would have to wait until Pedey returns, or else you have no backup skill INF. Holt could go on a rehab assignment on the 18th and get activated when rosters expand. If that's not viable, then Bruce is a good option if a position player gets hurt and looks to be on the DL until 9/1. And any injury past 8/21 would automatically fit that description. In fact, if Bruce is still available at that point and Holt, Nunez, or Young has a minor injury, it might well be a good move to just DL them for 10 days in order to get Bruce into the organization and playoff-eligible.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2017 0:05:58 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava.
If the Sox are fortunate enough to be completely healthy come October, this is how I see the 25 man roster shaking out:
Starters: Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, E-Rod (with one going to the pen) Bullpen: Kimbrel, Reed, Barnes, Kelly, Abad (over Scott), Workman (over Hembree) Starting Catcher: Vazquez Starting Infield: Moreland, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Devers Starting Outfield: Benintendi, Bradley, Betts The DH: Ramirez Bench: Leon, Holt, Nunez, Young
That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
|
Post by ericmvan on Aug 5, 2017 0:13:46 GMT -5
While I'd love to see the Red Sox get Bruce, even with Moreland's GW blast, I think the Mets look at him as somebody they'd extend a QO for, so they're not going to dump him the way they'd dump a Curtis Granderson. The Sox would have to surrender some talent to get Bruce in addition to take on his 4 plus million $ assuming they'd still be under the limit. I don't see the Red Sox giving up that talent at this point, unless Hanley's issues persist for a long time. Barring that I don't see it at this point, especially if Moreland is playing better/healthier. Bruce is having a great comeback year, but he was worth 0.2 WAR over the previous four seasons combined. He's not getting a raise based on one year, and he's not going to earn them a draft pick, either. If they want Bruce for RF next year, the no-brainer thing to do is to rent him to a contender for an interesting prospect, and then re-sign him.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 5, 2017 1:07:04 GMT -5
I just don't see Bruce as a qualifying offer type guy, even after a big year. Is the risk he accepts worth most likely getting a pick that is likely a very late second round pick ? Unless you think he gets 50 plus million, which I don't see. Last year a bunch of similar players sat on market forever and got small deals.
If the Mets feel that way it's a hard pass. Otherwise they can save money and get something for him.
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Aug 5, 2017 4:08:50 GMT -5
Jay Bruce cleared Revocable Waivers today and can be traded at any point now. That will be interesting to see if DD does anything with this guy. Do we still have money under the cap and what would he be willing to give up to get him? Still have some relief pitchers maybe.
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Aug 5, 2017 4:11:57 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava. If the Sox are fortunate enough to be completely healthy come October, this is how I see the 25 man roster shaking out: Starters: Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, E-Rod (with one going to the pen) Bullpen: Kimbrel, Reed, Barnes, Kelly, Abad (over Scott), Workman (over Hembree) Starting Catcher: Vazquez Starting Infield: Moreland, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Devers Starting Outfield: Benintendi, Bradley, Betts The DH: Ramirez Bench: Leon, Holt, Nunez, Young That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely. This looks pretty good. Nava would be an interesting pickup and assuming everyone is healthy.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
|
Post by jimoh on Aug 5, 2017 6:56:46 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava. [...] That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely. Nice idea in some ways but for some time he's not been much of a switch-hitter: very poor as a rhh for years.
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Aug 5, 2017 7:29:12 GMT -5
Pedro you have been very good with this. How much money do the sox have and still be under the cap? Any moves including the bruce situation is still going to be controlled by that number and Dave is not to give up a lot of farm system people especially the top prospects.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2017 7:42:04 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava. [...] That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely. Nice idea in some ways but for some time he's not been much of a switch-hitter: very poor as a rhh for years. Agreed but I think the Red Sox need a LH pinch-hitter type and Nava is better against righties. The fact that he can switch-hit is a plus and that he can play corner OF and 1b is good. We're talking about a useful 25th man because I'm assuming the Sox wouldn't go with 12 pitchers in the post-season although I could be wrong. The Red Sox do have Holt as a LH pinch-hitter but he's very versatile and his offense has suffered this year understandably. It wouldn't be Nava in place of Holt on the roster but rather he'd be the primary PH option against a righty, although it they get Pedroia back at some point, they will find a place for Nunez to get bats whether it's off the bench or whatever (a rotation of some sort).
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2017 8:35:20 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the Mets would offer Bruce a QO. If somebody signed Bruce if that happens, what does the signing team give up? The new rules kind of confuse me on this matter. Is it a 2nd and 5th round pick?
I'm trying to gauge the value the Mets would want for Bruce. Also I remember reading Bruce has a little over 4 million left over on his contract this season. Where are the Red Sox in regards to the LT limit? Can they afford to squeeze him in if need be and still stay under the limit?
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
|
Post by ericmvan on Aug 5, 2017 8:50:27 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava. If the Sox are fortunate enough to be completely healthy come October, this is how I see the 25 man roster shaking out: Starters: Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, E-Rod (with one going to the pen) Bullpen: Kimbrel, Reed, Barnes, Kelly, Abad (over Scott), Workman (over Hembree) Starting Catcher: Vazquez Starting Infield: Moreland, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Devers Starting Outfield: Benintendi, Bradley, Betts The DH: Ramirez Bench: Leon, Holt, Nunez, Young That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely. I think you've got the first 24, with four footnotes: I could absolutely see Brentz taking Young's spot (not saying it's likely, just possible), there's a microscopic chance that Swihart takes Leon's spot, and a microscopic chance that Fister takes Porcello's spot. And an unknown chance that Holt isn't really 100%, in which case Lin probably takes his spot. More on that in a moment. I actually think all of these are more likely than Scott over Abad, or Hembree over Workman. Spot 25: Note that if Carson Smith returns to form, he has to be the guy. Otherwise, the inhouse options are Travis, Lin, Marrero, and Swihart. I think it's true that what's missing from the bench is a LHB who can rake a little. Lin doesn't fit that description, and if Swihart does, then he probably takes Leon's spot. Now, if we do add a guy like Bruce or Nava, if he can also play a solid OF, that fills two of Holt's roles (extra LH bat, 5th OF). And Nunez has filled the third and key one (guy who can play 2B, 3B, and SS). So you would start to think about a much better infield defender to take Holt's spot, which is to say, either Lin or Marrero, even if Holt has been OK. In terms of pinch-running, either Lin or Marrero would be a better SB threat, but Holt has been a terrific baserunner over the years. Nunez of course will be the base-stealer on days when he's not starting. One thing worth noting: Nava has been a terrible PH in his career, and Bruce has been a great one, and an even better DH.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
|
Post by ericmvan on Aug 5, 2017 9:08:53 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the Mets would offer Bruce a QO. If somebody signed Bruce if that happens, what does the signing team give up? The new rules kind of confuse me on this matter. Is it a 2nd and 5th round pick? I'm trying to gauge the value the Mets would want for Bruce. Also I remember reading Bruce has a little over 4 million left over on his contract this season. Where are the Red Sox in regards to the LT limit? Can they afford to squeeze him in if need be and still stay under the limit? No, you didn't. You read speculation that they would consider it. Uninformed speculation, I would say: If they offer him a QO and he signs elsewhere, they'll get nothing, because no one's going to offer him a $50M contract. If someone does, they get compensation relative to market size, so it's minimal. So why exactly would they want him back for one year at $18M? If they like him, they can work out a much better deal before he hits free agency. Which is exactly what they could do if they trade him. What was reliably reported, again and again, was that there was very little interest in Bruce at the deadline. There just weren't contenders looking for a corner OF bat. That may well change in August.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Aug 5, 2017 10:08:00 GMT -5
Pedro you have been very good with this. How much money do the sox have and still be under the cap? Any moves including the bruce situation is still going to be controlled by that number and Dave is not to give up a lot of farm system people especially the top prospects. I think I've seen it around $2.5 million.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2017 10:28:46 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the Mets would offer Bruce a QO. If somebody signed Bruce if that happens, what does the signing team give up? The new rules kind of confuse me on this matter. Is it a 2nd and 5th round pick? I'm trying to gauge the value the Mets would want for Bruce. Also I remember reading Bruce has a little over 4 million left over on his contract this season. Where are the Red Sox in regards to the LT limit? Can they afford to squeeze him in if need be and still stay under the limit? No, you didn't. You read speculation that they would consider it. Uninformed speculation, I would say: If they offer him a QO and he signs elsewhere, they'll get nothing, because no one's going to offer him a $50M contract. If someone does, they get compensation relative to market size, so it's minimal. So why exactly would they want him back for one year at $18M? If they like him, they can work out a much better deal before he hits free agency. Which is exactly what they could do if they trade him. What was reliably reported, again and again, was that there was very little interest in Bruce at the deadline. There just weren't contenders looking for a corner OF bat. That may well change in August. You're correct. Very poorly worded on my part. It was speculatory and it was could not would. Actually I read this from mlbtraderumors.com and it was speculatory: "Of course, Bruce was freely marketed before the July 31st non-waiver deadline, and New York did not find a deal to its liking, so there’s no reason to believe the situation is all that different at present. And it seems the Mets are placing value on the idea of issuing the veteran a qualifying offer at the end of the season, so he’s not a sure thing to be dealt." I admit that I don't know the new QO rules very well. I know a player can't be offered a QO more than once or is it in consecutive years? I don't even know what I think I know. I believe first rounders are safe now, is that correct? That it's the 2nd and either 4th or 5th pick that is vulnerable now? If Bruce costs more $ than they have available, then it's a moot point, anyways.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2017 10:37:04 GMT -5
Assuming that Bruce doesn't happen for the Sox, there is another cheaper useful bat I'd like to see the Sox pick up in a trade, and that's Daniel Nava. If the Sox are fortunate enough to be completely healthy come October, this is how I see the 25 man roster shaking out: Starters: Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, E-Rod (with one going to the pen) Bullpen: Kimbrel, Reed, Barnes, Kelly, Abad (over Scott), Workman (over Hembree) Starting Catcher: Vazquez Starting Infield: Moreland, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Devers Starting Outfield: Benintendi, Bradley, Betts The DH: Ramirez Bench: Leon, Holt, Nunez, Young That leaves one bench spot. I would think a switch hitter like Nava would make for a nice pinch-hitter off the bench, especially one that can play OF or 1b in a pinch. I just think he fits the roster nicely. I think you've got the first 24, with four footnotes: I could absolutely see Brentz taking Young's spot (not saying it's likely, just possible), there's a microscopic chance that Swihart takes Leon's spot, and a microscopic chance that Fister takes Porcello's spot. And an unknown chance that Holt isn't really 100%, in which case Lin probably takes his spot. More on that in a moment. I actually think all of these are more likely than Scott over Abad, or Hembree over Workman. Spot 25: Note that if Carson Smith returns to form, he has to be the guy. Otherwise, the inhouse options are Travis, Lin, Marrero, and Swihart. I think it's true that what's missing from the bench is a LHB who can rake a little. Lin doesn't fit that description, and if Swihart does, then he probably takes Leon's spot. Now, if we do add a guy like Bruce or Nava, if he can also play a solid OF, that fills two of Holt's roles (extra LH bat, 5th OF). And Nunez has filled the third and key one (guy who can play 2B, 3B, and SS). So you would start to think about a much better infield defender to take Holt's spot, which is to say, either Lin or Marrero, even if Holt has been OK. In terms of pinch-running, either Lin or Marrero would be a better SB threat, but Holt has been a terrific baserunner over the years. Nunez of course will be the base-stealer on days when he's not starting. One thing worth noting: Nava has been a terrible PH in his career, and Bruce has been a great one, and an even better DH. If Porcello and Young are healthy there is no way that Fister or Brentz (I personally prefer Brentz to Young at this point)are taking their spot. The only way they see Swihart is if he is totally healthy and Leon is totally not. Same story with Holt vs Lin, which you already pointed out.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 5, 2017 13:20:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 5, 2017 16:04:26 GMT -5
Pedro you have been very good with this. How much money do the sox have and still be under the cap? Any moves including the bruce situation is still going to be controlled by that number and Dave is not to give up a lot of farm system people especially the top prospects. Mets would probably have to kick in about 1.5-2 million dollars to help facilitate a Bruce deal to the Sox. The Sox couldn't add anyone to the 40 man roster if they brought in Jay Bruce too. They'd be right against it.
|
|
|
Post by ryan24 on Aug 5, 2017 19:27:18 GMT -5
Pedro you have been very good with this. How much money do the sox have and still be under the cap? Any moves including the bruce situation is still going to be controlled by that number and Dave is not to give up a lot of farm system people especially the top prospects. Thank you sir. I knew I could count on you with the info. Seeing what you posted about the money. Do you think it is realistic to think that the sox have a chance at bruce? Mets would probably have to kick in about 1.5-2 million dollars to help facilitate a Bruce deal to the Sox. The Sox couldn't add anyone to the 40 man roster if they brought in Jay Bruce too. They'd be right against it.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Aug 5, 2017 19:32:21 GMT -5
Who is leaving if they acquire Bruce? I don't think that's happening, given Moreland's recovery.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 5, 2017 19:36:48 GMT -5
He should replace Hanley as a DH but yeah probably not. Moreland and Hanley should split time at 1B.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
|
Post by ericmvan on Aug 6, 2017 0:10:30 GMT -5
I think you've got the first 24, with four footnotes: I could absolutely see Brentz taking Young's spot (not saying it's likely, just possible), there's a microscopic chance that Swihart takes Leon's spot, and a microscopic chance that Fister takes Porcello's spot. And an unknown chance that Holt isn't really 100%, in which case Lin probably takes his spot. More on that in a moment. I actually think all of these are more likely than Scott over Abad, or Hembree over Workman. Spot 25: Note that if Carson Smith returns to form, he has to be the guy. Otherwise, the inhouse options are Travis, Lin, Marrero, and Swihart. I think it's true that what's missing from the bench is a LHB who can rake a little. Lin doesn't fit that description, and if Swihart does, then he probably takes Leon's spot. Now, if we do add a guy like Bruce or Nava, if he can also play a solid OF, that fills two of Holt's roles (extra LH bat, 5th OF). And Nunez has filled the third and key one (guy who can play 2B, 3B, and SS). So you would start to think about a much better infield defender to take Holt's spot, which is to say, either Lin or Marrero, even if Holt has been OK. In terms of pinch-running, either Lin or Marrero would be a better SB threat, but Holt has been a terrific baserunner over the years. Nunez of course will be the base-stealer on days when he's not starting. One thing worth noting: Nava has been a terrible PH in his career, and Bruce has been a great one, and an even better DH. If Porcello and Young are healthy there is no way that Fister or Brentz (I personally prefer Brentz to Young at this point)are taking their spot. The only way they see Swihart is if he is totally healthy and Leon is totally not. Same story with Holt vs Lin, which you already pointed out. I agree you re Fister and Swihart; that's why I called the odds microscopic. But Young has been awful this year, -0.3 WAR in just 46 games started, which is to say, nearly -1.0 WAR per 150. Meanwhile, Brentz's offensive numbers, translated, are much better, he's destroyed lefties down there, and he's a much better defender (not saying much). I want him on the roster in September to take Young's job and see if he can keep it, fo the rest of this year and next. Who is leaving if they acquire Bruce? I don't think that's happening, given Moreland's recovery. The idea was that it could happen in late August if a position player had to go on the DL. But it appears as if there's no cap room, so it's moot.
|
|
|
Post by soxjim on Aug 6, 2017 2:22:03 GMT -5
The call up of Devers has completely changed everything about this lineup and team. His presence has allowed the Sox to drop Moreland where he belongs, in the 8th spot in the lineup. I swear, this kid has been part of 80-90% of all the innings where the Sox have scored 2 or more runs in a inning in every game he's played in. This kid should be batting cleanup really really soon. Cleanup sort of doesn't work, because that forces two LHB to hit back to back somewhere. But 3rd or even 2nd works. Maybe 5th for a bit of they want to "not put pressure on him," but he seems to be oblivious to it. The order I like when Pedey comes back: Pedroia Betts Devers Ramirez *Moreland if he's returned to form Bogaerts *Bradley catcher *Benintendi The three guys marked * are swapped around depending on how they're going. That's the order if they're all going well. IMO the lineup needs Nunez. At least in Fenway and in the hitting parks of Baltimore and Toronto. Not enough guys that can hit with that lineup you have imo. Unless ofc they get hot. Lineup I like: Betts Pedey Nunez Devers Ramirez Beni Xander catcher JBJ Subject to change who gets hot and who doesn't. Primarily Beni vs JBJ swap. But would even consider moving Xander to 9. Don't care about righty/lefty too much. Too many guys in the SOx lineup are .240 - .270 with little power. Excluding Nunez, other than Devers (possibly a good .300 hitter throughout with power)-- the Sox won't be able to get enough hits to drive in enough runs. SO they need another bat that will give them at least .280 with some power. No wonder why sox have struggled to score vs Yanks. Not enough hitters nor power. Nunez gives some of that - at Fenway. His pull hitting plays well. **Regarding trading/or pick-ups - any bat with power would be welcome. Bruce: sure. Anyone. But as of right now Sox needs Nunez to play most games unless Hnaley, Moreland, Betts, Beni and Xander in some combination can hit much better.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 6, 2017 5:05:31 GMT -5
I trade Young in the Bruce trade, if he can clear waviers. He isn't hitting lefties, so he's kinda useless this year. Bruce would be a big upgrade for our bench. Wait till end of August for the money to go down. Have the Mets kick in a little money.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 6, 2017 6:14:29 GMT -5
I trade Young in the Bruce trade, if he can clear waviers. He isn't hitting lefties, so he's kinda useless this year. Bruce would be a big upgrade for our bench. Wait till end of August for the money to go down. Have the Mets kick in a little money. You would have to give up one hell of a prospect to have the Mets trade Bruce and take on Young. IF he can clear waivers ? lol.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 6, 2017 6:38:18 GMT -5
I trade Young in the Bruce trade, if he can clear waviers. He isn't hitting lefties, so he's kinda useless this year. Bruce would be a big upgrade for our bench. Wait till end of August for the money to go down. Have the Mets kick in a little money. You would have to give up one hell of a prospect to have the Mets trade Bruce and take on Young. IF he can clear waivers ? lol. Why? The Mets would still save money. You act like Young has a long-term deal or something. By end of August Bruce would be like 3 million and Young what like 1.5 million. So they would save 1.5 million, still leaving us a million to add a young player if we had to. Send them Buttrey or Mars, or both. Look at what we gave up for Reed, a player a bunch of other teams wanted. Bruce is not going to cost a lot.
|
|
|