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7/31-8/2 Red Sox vs. Indians Series Thread
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 8:53:28 GMT -5
7/31 Red Sox (RHP Doug Fister 0-5, 7.46, 25.1 IP, 21K:17BB) vs. Indians (RHP Mike Clevinger 5-3, 3.20, 70.1 IP, 78K:35BB) 7:00 pm ET, NESN/ESPN/WEEI 8/1 Red Sox (LHP Chris Sale 13-4, 2.37, 148.1 IP, 211K:27BB) vs. Indians (RHP Carlos Carrasco 10-4, 3.58, 123.1 IP, 135K:31BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/MLBN*/WEEI 8/2 Red Sox (RHP Rick Porcello 10-4, 4.55, 140.1 IP, 126K:21BB) vs. Indians (RHP Trevor Bauer 9-8, 5.25, 106.1 IP, 117K:42BB) 7:00 pm ET, NESN/ESPN*/WEEI *Out of market only MLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2017 8:57:41 GMT -5
Game 1 seems like a loss. Game 2 seems could be a win but who knows with the lineup against Carasco. Game 3 seems like a game they should win. The Sox should take 2 out of 3, even though Fister brings down this series a lot in game 1.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 9:02:46 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months.
They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2017 9:20:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame starting Fister for lack of depth though, I would blame it on poor decision making really.
There's no reason why Velazquez shouldn't of gotten this start. Fister should of been DFA'd three appearances ago. Don't know what the Sox are honestly thinking here, if they are even thinking at all.
The bullpen has been worked a lot too recently, starting Fister isn't ideal when considering that factor also.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 9:25:46 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame starting Fister for lack of depth though, I would blame it on poor decision making really. It doesn't have to be an either/or. It is a bad decision to start Fister over Velazquez, it's bad that there aren't more obvious options, and it's bad that the organizational depth isn't there to get a third-tier starter. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2017 9:30:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame starting Fister for lack of depth though, I would blame it on poor decision making really. It doesn't have to be an either/or. It is a bad decision to start Fister over Velazquez, it's bad that there aren't more obvious options, and it's bad that the organizational depth isn't there to get a third-tier starter. Yeah those are points that are indisputable. Although I'd say there are some more options like Beeks. Johnson should be a option but he can't be relied on at any point anymore. |
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Post by keany on Jul 31, 2017 9:37:29 GMT -5
Fister has only pitched 25.1 innings? Am I the only one who feels like it's been so many more? When will the pain end?
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 9:52:33 GMT -5
Fister has only pitched 25.1 innings? Am I the only one who feels like it's been so many more? When will the pain end? I think he's faced 860 batters in those 25 1/3 innings. |
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jul 31, 2017 9:55:38 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. AND somehow abad still has a roster slot. 🤔 |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 31, 2017 11:39:08 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. At least pin part of the blame on the previous regime's inability to procure or develop pitching depth. That is what the majority of these moves had in common. You can call it "win now", but the reality of it is that there was a severe imbalance between the pitching and position player talent. DD tried to address it, and some of the moves have backfired because of injury, whch is not his fault. Some of the revisionist stuff that goes on around here is head scratching. |
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Post by wesmantooth on Jul 31, 2017 11:42:26 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight.  Be positive they say though |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,824
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 31, 2017 11:44:45 GMT -5
A Dombrowski-run team lacks depth? Pinch me!
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Post by bigpapiortiz on Jul 31, 2017 11:46:42 GMT -5
The thought of no Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz for the sake of the future is even more horrifying.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Jul 31, 2017 11:48:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't consider Fister the 7th starter. He's like option #10. Sale, Porcello, Price, Wright, Pom, Rodriguez, Johnson, Elias, and Owens was the plan at the start of the year. Everyone in that group, outside of Sale, Porcello, and Pomeranz, has gotten hurt or sucked. I'd rather have Johnson but he's been hurt on and off all year. Having Fister over Velasquez is dumb.
Not saying the team is blameless but there's been a lot of turmoil in the rotation behind Sale
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 12:10:28 GMT -5
At least pin part of the blame on the previous regime's inability to procure or develop pitching depth. That is what the majority of these moves had in common. You can call it "win now", but the reality of it is that there was a severe imbalance between the pitching and position player talent. DD tried to address it, and some of the moves have backfired because of injury, whch is not his fault. Some of the revisionist stuff that goes on around here is head scratching. I've been extremely critical of the Cherington regime. But moves that eat into the depth just exacerbate the problem - you can't develop pitching depth when you trade it all. The Red Sox drafted three college arms in the 2016 draft, all three were having decent years, and they've traded two of them for rentals this week. Another problem with Cherington is the bad free agent contracts made it so the team needs to trade players to fill holes, rather than do it with money. The Sox weren't in a position to take on a contract in order to save prospect costs. As far as revisionism, this isn't it. I'm pretty consistent laying out how I feel about a trade at the time it happens. |
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Post by ramireja on Jul 31, 2017 12:13:28 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. Since you wrote this, you can edit in Callahan, Nogosek, and Bautista to the first sentence. Unfortunately, you can't edit the last sentence. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2017 12:26:38 GMT -5
Austin Maddox up, Scott down.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2017 12:34:50 GMT -5
Austin Maddox up, Scott down. Yeap needed a arm for the Fister start. Pretty bad when the Sox admit that they realize Fister has a good chance of not lasting long in this game. Hopefully this is the last appearance for Fister regardless of the score today. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 31, 2017 12:47:09 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. Yeah but they got Craig Kimbrel, Chris Sale, Drew Pomeranz, Abad, Ziegler, Aaron Hill and Nunez, all which have been at least useful in one way or another. The only real clunker among those was the Thornburg trade, because he has been injured and Shaw has been a breakout star. Ignoring Travis Shaw because that was clearly an idiotic trade, I think you're underrating a team that has won the division once and is (was?) on the way to win again or overrating a group that mixes top prospects with flat out non-prospects. |
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Post by mandelbro on Jul 31, 2017 13:01:00 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. Yeah but they got Craig Kimbrel, Chris Sale, Drew Pomeranz, Abad, Ziegler, Aaron Hill and Nunez, all which have been at least useful in one way or another. The only real clunker among those was the Thornburg trade, because he has been injured and Shaw has been a breakout star. Ignoring Travis Shaw because that was clearly an idiotic trade, I think you're underrating a team that has won the division once and is (was?) on the way to win again or overrating a group that mixes top prospects with flat out non-prospects. You're right that the only one that has truly come back to bite is Shaw so far. But when you've traded 22 players, and have 6 that aren't rentals to show for it, you're seriously tempting fate. At some level, it's just poor management of the unknown. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 13:02:34 GMT -5
They've played .538 baseball this year (equivalent to an 87-win team). I think they're probably underachieving to some extent, but it's hard to figure this group to be better than 92 wins. And there are some non-prospects in there, but there are a solid 15 players, (adding Callahan and Nogosek but not including graduates Margot and Shaw) who would rank in the system's current Top 40. And trading prospects for veterans isn't, in and of itself, bad - The Ziegler, Hill, Abad, and Sale trades were ones I liked at the time, and this Reed deal is one I am fine with. And rental trades aren't necessarily bad either. The volume hurts, though.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 31, 2017 13:10:44 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. If Dombrowski hadn't acquired; Sale, Pomeranz and Price, what would our rotation be? |
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 31, 2017 13:15:26 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. Yeah but they got Craig Kimbrel, Chris Sale, Drew Pomeranz, Abad, Ziegler, Aaron Hill and Nunez, all which have been at least useful in one way or another. The only real clunker among those was the Thornburg trade, because he has been injured and Shaw has been a breakout star. Ignoring Travis Shaw because that was clearly an idiotic trade, I think you're underrating a team that has won the division once and is (was?) on the way to win again or overrating a group that mixes top prospects with flat out non-prospects. I propose we change the name of this board to; "I'm smarter than Dave Dombrowski" The regulars will love it! The constant griping with no alternative solution to sign/trade/develop pitching makes this board less and less enjoyable to read. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 31, 2017 13:19:42 GMT -5
Ok. Fister is starting, the Indians are smoking hot, and JF is still our manager and Ted Williams isn't in the lineup. No problems here, we got em right where we want em. Let's win tonight!!!
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2017 13:23:33 GMT -5
In order to build a team to "win now," the Red Sox have traded Shaun Anderson, Gregory Santos, Yeison Coca, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, Travis Shaw, Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Pat Light, Anderson Espinoza, Luis Alejandro Basabe, Jose Almonte, Wendell Rijo, Aaron Wilkerson, Jonathan Aro, Wade Miley, Manuel Margot, Javier Guerra, Logan Allen, and Carlos Asuaje in the last 20 months. They are starting Doug Fister against the Cleveland Indians tonight. If Dombrowski hadn't acquired; Sale, Pomeranz and Price, what would our rotation be? I said above that I liked the Sale trade, and Price didn't cost any prospects. So I dunno, since Price is hurt maybe it would be Sale, Porcello, and three false dichotomies of your choosing? |
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