|
Post by mredsox89 on Nov 21, 2017 16:33:39 GMT -5
Braves got absolutely crushed here. I think deservedly so based on Manfred's statement involving what they did, as it essentially became a slippery slope per say once they worked around that first international signing class
Not sure I'm a fan of the players now going back into the IFA pool though, as I think it's unfair to both the players and the teams. Most teams have already allocated this year's pool, and have set a game plan for the next July 2 signings. The players should really be released as FA's, with either what they signed for as limits or a baseline and anything over that should come out of your pool allotment.
Going to be super interesting with $15M+ worth if IFA prospects suddenly showing up on the market with most team's either already out of $ or already committed to the next period. Pair that with Ohtani and who the hell knows what is going to happen
|
|
|
Post by southcoastghost on Nov 21, 2017 16:38:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 21, 2017 16:41:13 GMT -5
The Yankees and Rockies have made moves in the past few days to acquire additional pool $$. I would imagine the Yankees will particularly be active on these new players...
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 21, 2017 16:46:13 GMT -5
I was wondering why so many teams were trading for more money. I didn't buy everyone was doing it for Ohtani. They must have known this was likely and wanted to be ready if it happended.
|
|
|
Post by swingingbunt on Nov 21, 2017 16:49:30 GMT -5
Where has it been said teams can use next year's pool? The only thing mentioned so far is that teams will be able to use 17-18 money, which is this current signing period. Edit: Nevermind. I see Passan's tweet now that says teams can dip into their 18-19 pool.
|
|
|
Post by southcoastghost on Nov 21, 2017 16:56:36 GMT -5
Where has it been said teams can use next year's pool? The only thing mentioned so far is that teams will be able to use 17-18 money, which is this current signing period. I am basing that off information in this Tweet by Jeff Passan: (edited for clarity - iakovos11)
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 21, 2017 17:50:35 GMT -5
Also, the fact that these guys have already received all of this money (which I presume they keep) means they won't necessarily require huge bonuses. Maitan will get paid, but the other guys probably wind up signing for less than previous.
Keep in mind, though, that teams will already have allocated some of their caps for next year, so it's not necessarily freeing up THAT much more potential bonus money for these guys.
|
|
|
Post by prangerx on Nov 21, 2017 17:58:41 GMT -5
I know what they did was wrong but did the former gm really deserve a permanent ban?
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Nov 21, 2017 18:18:10 GMT -5
Full statement from Manfred: Honest question, what's the difference between what the braves did and what the Red Sox did? Besides chronologically?
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Nov 21, 2017 18:48:39 GMT -5
I know what they did was wrong but did the former gm really deserve a permanent ban? It appears that the Braves negotiated multiple international deals to circumvent the bonus limitations over a number of years, including negotiating contracts at least two years before some players were age eligible. You would have thought that MLB teams would have learned their lesson after MLB came down on the Red Sox. I think the punishment is significant and well deserved. www.baseballamerica.com/international/mlb-removing-prospects-braves/
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 21, 2017 19:16:38 GMT -5
I think it's chronological and scope - consider that Maitan alone probably got more money than all of the players the Red Sox signed the year they were punished. Gutierrez too probably. Coppolella is apparently also a dick, which didn't help his cause.
Also, broke this out into a new thread, given we're already into multiple pages on this.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Nov 21, 2017 20:17:43 GMT -5
The sequence of events moving forwards between these prospects and Ohtani is going to be extremely interesting. Wonder if some teams that know they aren't going to get Ohtani might jump on the Braves guys, or maybe a team that doesn't think they have a great shot at Ohtani just diverts the resources to these new IFA's.
This is especially true because it's happening at almost the exact same time as the MLB/Japan posting process is agreed to, which means the Ohtani $ and decisions are a week or two away
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 21, 2017 20:40:57 GMT -5
how many lifetime bans does MLB hand out? Wow, that is severe.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 21, 2017 21:25:16 GMT -5
how many lifetime bans does MLB hand out? Wow, that is severe. This could get interesting. Listening to MLB radio on the way back from a grocery run, and his statement made it clear that he was simply doing what the front office wanted him to do. He wasn't apologizing and he talked of exploring legal options. He sounds like someone threatening to expose the underbelly of this process. We'll see who blinks first. If he was smart enough to keep all the communications - emails, meeting notes, that sort of thing - he may hold that over the head of the commissioner's office. The idea that individuals in rigidly structured organizations go off on their own tangent is wrong most of the time. VW is the perfect example. The CEO was known to authorize every sneeze from anyone in the chain of command. The notion that some engineer decided to screw with the automotive software - to have it recognize when it was being tested so that the emissions controls could be put into play - is nuts. If you cared about your job at all, doing that outside that hierarchy would be tantamount to industrial suicide. You would think that after MLB made an example of the Sox, other teams would have taken heed. Not so, apparently. That initial shot across the bow is likely one reason why the penalty is so harsh. They never got the memo, or never bothered to take it seriously.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 21, 2017 21:55:40 GMT -5
how many lifetime bans does MLB hand out? Wow, that is severe. This could get interesting. Listening to MLB radio on the way back from a grocery run, and his statement made it clear that he was simply doing what the front office wanted him to do. He wasn't apologizing and he talked of exploring legal options. He sounds like someone threatening to expose the underbelly of this process. We'll see who blinks first. If he was smart enough to keep all the communications - emails, meeting notes, that sort of thing - he may hold that over the head of the commissioner's office. The idea that individuals in rigidly structured organizations go off on their own tangent is wrong most of the time. VW is the perfect example. The CEO was known to authorize every sneeze from anyone in the chain of command. The notion that some engineer decided to screw with the automotive software - to have it recognize when it was being tested so that the emissions controls could be put into play - is nuts. If you cared about your job at all, doing that outside that hierarchy would be tantamount to industrial suicide. You would think that after MLB made an example of the Sox, other teams would have taken heed. Not so, apparently. That initial shot across the bow is likely one reason why the penalty is so harsh. They never got the memo, or never bothered to take it seriously. yeah. i never bought the "rogue" employee defense that some companies throw out there. This guy could make folks squirm if he has the backup, your right about that.
|
|
|
Post by shaqtus on Nov 21, 2017 22:49:50 GMT -5
With the Flores tragedy, I think the Red Sox need to throw everything they can at Maitan. He’d be an excellent addition to a farm system thin on top end talent. Seriously—everyone—unless your sole point is RIP, don't use the late young man Flores as part of a point. Just... don't.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Nov 22, 2017 8:22:49 GMT -5
how many lifetime bans does MLB hand out? Wow, that is severe. I was thinking that too - there have been three in the last couple years: Correa and Coppolella in front offices, Jenry Mejia on the field. And I can't remember any before then since Steve Howe back in 1992. ----- Man, it's impossible for me to think that this current system is better for players than an international draft would be. I know I'm in the minority opinion on this, and it obviously has its own share of problems, but if it's not just going to be a free uncapped market then it's not really free agency, and you're going to have teams trying to get around it. If fairness was the number one concern, the answer would be uncapped free agency. If distribution of talent were top, then it would be a draft. This hybrid capped system is a disaster for the players.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Nov 22, 2017 10:39:31 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority but I think the Braves got off easy. What they did seemed to be at a much larger scope than us. The prospects were signed illegally and should be let go. They had over 2X the illegal signings, put up guys in hotels before hand and had deals in place with 13 year olds and they essentially got our punishment plus a 50% pool reduction the following year. They were rumored to offer draft picks under the table incentives so they could blow past slot value for Kyle Wright and the only lost a 3rd? I also think they let Hart skate to protect his image as an MLB lifer.
|
|
|
Post by Smittyw on Nov 22, 2017 10:44:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Nov 22, 2017 11:08:13 GMT -5
Everything about the whole international signing period is shady as hell. Every single team is breaking the rules when they have agreements in place before the signing period begins. When will they come down on a team that isn't from NY for that practice?
|
|
|
Post by SALNotes on Nov 22, 2017 11:36:04 GMT -5
This is severe no doubt but having read the allegations wow, that was pretty brazen by Coppy and company. My question is, where is the culpability for the trainers and the players themselves? They know the rules too and all they seem to get is a 2nd bite of the apple.
Also are we going down a slippery slope here with voiding contracts and allowing players a 2nd payday. Aren't they all going to start singing at the 1st sign of impropriety?
|
|
|
Post by borisman on Nov 22, 2017 11:36:19 GMT -5
Would the Braves prospects still be under the international signing rules? If not this is what the Sox need to do instead of going after JD Martinez or other big names. The farm needs to be rebuilt badly....no, it needs to be rebuilt goodly. ...no, it needs to be rebuilt bigly ( or big league).
|
|
snod
Rookie
Posts: 5
|
Post by snod on Nov 22, 2017 13:39:06 GMT -5
With his first full season depressing his value a bit, what are we estimating (hoping?) he would sign for? $1.5M? $2M? If the bat speed and his feel for hitting are as advertised, and Longenhagen seems to think that they are, I'd be thrilled to see the Sox chew up nearly half of their 2018-2019 allotment to add him to the system. Where would he rank, do we think? Even with the down season I'd have him in the top 5 for sure. Maybe 3rd behind Groome and Chavis. If the Sox are lucky enough to land him, it will be interesting to see how the Chris and Ian discuss his ranking on the podcast.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Nov 22, 2017 15:33:29 GMT -5
With his first full season depressing his value a bit, what are we estimating (hoping?) he would sign for? $1.5M? $2M? If the bat speed and his feel for hitting are as advertised, and Longenhagen seems to think that they are, I'd be thrilled to see the Sox chew up nearly half of their 2018-2019 allotment to add him to the system. Where would he rank, do we think? Even with the down season I'd have him in the top 5 for sure. Maybe 3rd behind Groome and Chavis. If the Sox are lucky enough to land him, it will be interesting to see how the Chris and Ian discuss his ranking on the podcast. When you read that article, it doesn't even sound like he's a prospect anymore. Based on that report, I wouldn't offer more than $200K so it doesn't count at all. I mean he's now projected to be a 1B, not a SS who may have to move to 3B and his swing is too long and clunky.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Nov 22, 2017 17:34:26 GMT -5
The whole system seems to be flawed. A draft seems like the absolute best solution,
|
|