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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2017 22:01:03 GMT -5
Dombrowski checked in with them at the beginning of the process at the GM meetings. I can't find a link but the story was that he checked in and the price was too high in terms of players plus prospects. I'm sure it's over in the Stanton thread in the Trade Proposal Subforum, if not here. He checked back in again last week, which would've been the time frame you're talking about. At that point, Stanton had presented the Marlins with a four-team list that the Red Sox were not on. The Marlins, to my understanding, didn't have the four-team list until after he'd rejected the Cards and Giants trades. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong there. I mean, how often do you want him to check back in? www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/11/12/red-sox-interest-giancarlo-stanton-hovers-over-baseball-meetings/y4rLaNHvcXVu1ehwF1aNEP/story.htmlUh huh - and the "early asks" for Sale were reportedly ridiculous, too. And then the price came down, just like it did on Stanton. Sorry, I've been in enough high level negotiations over the years to know when one party either wasn't all that interested, or got skunked and is making excuses. Pick one, that's what happened here in my humblest of opinions.
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Post by soxjim on Dec 11, 2017 22:18:23 GMT -5
Uh huh - and the "early asks" for Sale were reportedly ridiculous, too. And then the price came down, just like it did on Stanton. Sorry, I've been in enough high level negotiations over the years to know when one party either wasn't all that interested, or got skunked and is making excuses. Pick one, that's what happened here in my humblest of opinions. I think the view that DD had a chance is off-the-wall ridiculous. I read somewhere that someone posted why didn't they do what SF and St Louis did? And I thought -- "ohh great waste your time. That's a criticism of DD. He should waste his time?" After all Boston didn't need a powerhitter anyways. They're an afterthought to sluggers looking to win in which the team obviously needs that type of bat but they're not really a championship type organization anyways. Why would Stanton or his agent want to play for a team pretty darn successful over the past 15 years? SO let's keep DD and the Sox guessing. LOL. Anyhow -- Stanton is gone. I think he and his agent are wisely using the blame game to avoid mentioning why they didn't want to come to Boston. Now what do we do? I read from a poster that DD is going to try to rely on Hanley. If he does that and Hanley fails while the team underperforms -- I'll be like some on here -- very disgusted with DD. Very, very, very disgusted. In the interim - I'll remain positive - he is mentioning he needs a middle of the order bat and a reliever. Interesting that I read JBJ's name tossed about somewhere too. I do like the idea of adding a quality reliever - a lot.
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Post by dirtdog on Dec 11, 2017 22:38:53 GMT -5
I am with Guidas, not getting Stanton was about the money, nothing else. If you remember last week there was a story that his reps were trying to steer him to Boston. So there was some convincing that could have been done IMO if the Sox were really interested. Bottom line is that another big money team the Dodgers who were said to be his first choice, and are owned by 100 billion dollar hedge fund company didnt want to deal with the contract either so apparently John Henry had company in his thought process.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 12, 2017 0:15:42 GMT -5
In the context of the Stanton deal I am glad that for decades I literally prayed for a single series win and we’ve had three. I’m glad that I care a bit less about the Sox than I have given their own players greed, poor behavior and several writers reports on being a less likable team than they’ve had in years. I’m glad I’ve cared much more deeply about the Bruins the last few years and things look great in the future. We’ve gone through the plus and minus of Dombrowski’s style ad nauseum and I do find a downside in terms of rooting interest when we’re bereft of prospects. Finally, I will reiterate a point I made months ago- after years of just throwing money and seeing what will stick Brian Cashman has done his best work ever as a gm over the last year. He’s stayed below the cap, maximized prospect return for players and rentals. He’s finally flexing Yankee type might and is set to do more in a year, but heck Judge seems like a good guy and as a group this team is probably a nicer bunch than the Redsox, so I’m thank goodness not sick to my stomach like when they signed Rich Gossage or the winter they signed both Texiera and Sabbathia. Of course he could get hurt and decline and be a saddle on them too. I've thought about the paths the Sox and Yankees are on and how it's come to be. It occurs to me the Yankees are built to be very good for a long time. They are in really good financial shape payroll-wise. They have a strong farm system with impact on the way. They're going to be good for a long time. The Red Sox are built to have their best shot to win in the 2016-2019 time period. The farm system is now drying up and there's not much impact down on the farm that will be ready come 2020. I think about how Theo was ahead of the curve and how the Sox were among the best and brightest during the last decade but he could never get the autonomy he wanted. There was always Lucchino that he had to answer to. Meanwhile Cashman has always been a pretty smart guy, but he spent a lot of time butting heads with George's cronies, the Tampa faction, and I don't think Cashman could build the team the way he really wanted to. In Theo's case, eventually I think the in-fighting got to the point he had enough and he left to in my opinion, gain more autonomy which he did with the Cubs. He now only answers to the owner and doesn't have that extra layer to answer to. The irony is our current GM (I know it's a different title these days) now only has to answer to our owner. He doesn't have to answer to Sam Kennedy the way Theo had to answer to Lucchino. Meanwhile, little by little, what the Red Sox once were has started to deteriorate, or at least I think so. Theo made his mistakes, but when he was GM I was pretty confident the Red Sox were going to be good year in and year out if he was allowed to do what he needed to do without too much interference. Dombrowski is competent but I don't honestly think he's an improvement on Theo, and I no longer think the Red Sox are ahead of the curve anymore. They've been passed out by other organizations. Meanwhile Cashman has somehow outlasted those Tampa cronies who have aged out. Unfortunately George Steinbrenner had one smart son. The dumb one got in Cashman's way but Hal eventually got Hank to butt out, and now Cashman is free to run the team as he sees fit without the interference, kind of the way Gene Michael did when George Steinbrenner was suspended. The Yankees haven't had a losing season since 1992 and I don't see that streak ending anytime soon. They're built to be strong for a long time. This team could afford either Bryce Harper or Manny Machado (at this point I think it's Machado) and still get another strong starting pitcher whether it's by trade or by free agency. Cashman has done a helluva job. Not sure how he stayed sane with Steinbrenner and his cronies around, but he held onto his job and is doing it his way now. God knows he had plenty of time to watch Theo operate last decade.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 12, 2017 0:32:41 GMT -5
Uh huh - and the "early asks" for Sale were reportedly ridiculous, too. And then the price came down, just like it did on Stanton. Sorry, I've been in enough high level negotiations over the years to know when one party either wasn't all that interested, or got skunked and is making excuses. Pick one, that's what happened here in my humblest of opinions. I think the view that DD had a chance is off-the-wall ridiculous. I read somewhere that someone posted why didn't they do what SF and St Louis did? And I thought -- "ohh great waste your time. That's a criticism of DD. He should waste his time?" After all Boston didn't need a powerhitter anyways. They're an afterthought to sluggers looking to win in which the team obviously needs that type of bat but they're not really a championship type organization anyways. Why would Stanton or his agent want to play for a team pretty darn successful over the past 15 years? SO let's keep DD and the Sox guessing. LOL. Anyhow -- Stanton is gone. I think he and his agent are wisely using the blame game to avoid mentioning why they didn't want to come to Boston. Now what do we do? I read from a poster that DD is going to try to rely on Hanley. If he does that and Hanley fails while the team underperforms -- I'll be like some on here -- very disgusted with DD. Very, very, very disgusted. In the interim - I'll remain positive - he is mentioning he needs a middle of the order bat and a reliever. Interesting that I read JBJ's name tossed about somewhere too. I do like the idea of adding a quality reliever - a lot. I don't agree with this line of thinking. Why shouldn't he go thru the exercise of meeting with Stanton? You don't get the girl if you don't ask. What's the worst that happens? Stanton says no? What time did he really waste? Did it cost him another blockbuster deal or free agent signing he could have made but he'd be too busy wasting time with Stanton? No, I don't think so. To me, this is akin to what the Orioles have been doing. They refused to pay the posting fee to try for Ohtani. Why in the world wouldn't they at least try to see if they could interest him? The Red Sox tried. Do you feel Dombrowski wasted his time? Dombrowski didn't feel it was a waste of time. He answered all those questions the best he could to try to get Ohtani interested. I look at it as if the Red Sox tried the best they could with Ohtani. He chose to go elsewhere. The Red Sox put their best foot forward, made the effort, and the player chose to go elsewhere. I find zero fault with Dombrowski and the Red Sox for the effort they put in to try to get Ohtani, as opposed to the Orioles not even trying. But with Stanton, I don't even fault Dombrowski. I fault John Henry and Tom Werner. It's a large deal, the kind they can't make without Henry and Werner. The owners didn't want the contract. That's what it really was. The Sox didn't have the prospects to make Miami want to kick in a lot of $, so it would have just cost money, money that the Sox actually could have afforded. I mean what is 25 million/year AAV going to look like in 2024? Maybe the equivalent of $15 - 17 million now? You know how many times that contract will be dwarfed by then, let alone 2027? When John Henry is 78 years old? The contract wouldn't have crippled the Red Sox. What do they think middle of the order hitters are going to cost on the open market as time goes by? Do they think the next David Ortiz is going to fall into their lap out of the bargain bin? And then allow themselves to be underpaid as Ortiz was all those years? Ortiz was damn loyal. Or do they want to trade away all their prospects so they can rent an "affordable" star for a few years? Sooner or later you run out of prospects doing that. They only tried to get back in the Stanton sweepstakes when they got wind of the Yankees making their move, which isn't that different than what happened in 2004 with A-Rod. The Red Sox could have sealed the deal with A-Rod but balked over a relatively small amount of money, and then at the 11th hour when they heard the Yankees were going to get A-Rod, they started trying to re-engage A-Rod. Same playbook move. It didn't get them the player then and it didn't get the Sox the player now. I just hope Stanton has A-Rod's "makeup", but I don't think he has unfortunately, as we know the failure to get A-Rod wound up being a blessing in disguise with all his other baggage.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 12, 2017 0:57:42 GMT -5
In the past I would normally visit a thread like this with enthusiasm. This is starting to remind me of a bad acid trip. God make it stop. Dear God make it stop. All I ask of you is to make it stop please....I promise I will never take it again. Strongly agree. Can the people obsessing about DDo and Stanton please go away? (Do note that libertine was complaining about something else entirely.) ESPN (I think it was Dan Szymborski) did an analysis of Stanton's fit for each team and ballpark, among the teams that could afford him. Boston was the worst. He's not going to add any cheap flyball homers, and a lot of homers will become singles. Why would he want to come here? We also get less defensive value than anyone else -- and he's quite a good defender -- because we have three better defenders locked up for three or more years each. The Sox made their initial inquiry, back when the Marlins idiotically were a) having trade talks before determining who Stanton would waive his no-trade for, and b) asking for both a big prospect package and a full salary dump. By the time it was clear that the Marlins understood they needed to settle for either prospects or salary relief, Stanton had revealed that he had no interest in coming here. That Jeter handled it so badly that he ended up getting neither prospects of note nor full salary relief ... how exactly is that Dave Dombrowski's fault?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2017 9:58:32 GMT -5
Dombrowski checked in with them at the beginning of the process at the GM meetings. I can't find a link but the story was that he checked in and the price was too high in terms of players plus prospects. I'm sure it's over in the Stanton thread in the Trade Proposal Subforum, if not here. He checked back in again last week, which would've been the time frame you're talking about. At that point, Stanton had presented the Marlins with a four-team list that the Red Sox were not on. The Marlins, to my understanding, didn't have the four-team list until after he'd rejected the Cards and Giants trades. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong there. I mean, how often do you want him to check back in? Well, if it means risking Stanton going to your rival, more than twice might have been nice. Also, there's a difference between 'checking in' with Stanton's camp and engaging them with an honest pitch. We have no evidence to suggest they did the latter. The Globe quoted a Red Sox team official who said Stanton to the Yanks "[expletives] our [expletive] up." To say I'm outraged would be an overstatement, but the evidence suggests the FO let this slip through the cracks and that's disappointing. There is a word for what you're saying Dombrowski should have done - talk to Stanton's agent without having an agreement with the Marlins first. That's tampering, and he'd potentially have gotten the team in trouble by doing it. You can't go talk to a player's agents while they're under contract with another team. That's why the Cardinals and Giants had potential deals in place before talking to Stanton and getting shot down. Dombrowski doesn't get a chance to change Stanton's mind unless the Marlins let him. Outrage at Jeter for putting the Marlins in a position to get nothing for Stanton I get and think is well-founded. He bought the team and is gutting it to pay himself back, which is BS. That said, once the Marlins were committed to trading Stanton and he narrowed the potential suitors to four teams, of course they weren't going to get anything. Those four teams had the Marlins by the short ones at that point - you need to trade this player, there's not a whole lot of realistic options, we're not bailing you out. I'll admit that I was wrong about what the Marlins would get for Stanton, but I didn't realize he was going to wield his no-trade so aggressively (which is his prerogative and is fine - that's why you negotiate for one). Dombrowski check in with the Marlins. The price was too high. The Marlins had deals done with the Cards and Giants. Those fell through, at which point he called again. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do there. As for the comment that the Yankees getting him messes with their plans, to put it in terms that needn't be censored, it's because the Yankees got better, not because the Red Sox screwed up by not getting him. Dombrowski has not been perfect as the Red Sox GM. Far from it. But killing him for the Yankees trading for Stanton doesn't make any sense, particularly with so many chips still on the table. At the end of the offseason, if Dombrowski fails to address needs or winds up overpaying in a panic move, cool, get him for that. But good grief, let's all cool out for a minute.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2017 9:59:56 GMT -5
So Dombrowski basically just confirmed that (1) there was indeed a four-team list and the Red Sox weren't on it, and (2) he did call. Anyone have outrage left they want to express? Sure. 1) So what if they weren't on the list - maybe it's because they never tried to sell Stanton's agents (and by extension, Stanton) on the fit. And if you're not on the list why not make the solid offer like St L and SF did - not on the list but Sox have better chances of making playoffs than either next couple years. 2) Sounds like a pretty tepid "call." And FWIW, I actually believe the agent in this case - Occam's razor. He has less to lose in a lie. Piss poor job by Dombrowski overall tells me ownership never wanted to pay that bill. As I just said, that would be tampering.
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Post by jmei on Dec 12, 2017 10:18:30 GMT -5
Well, if it means risking Stanton going to your rival, more than twice might have been nice. Also, there's a difference between 'checking in' with Stanton's camp and engaging them with an honest pitch. We have no evidence to suggest they did the latter. The Globe quoted a Red Sox team official who said Stanton to the Yanks "[expletives] our [expletive] up." To say I'm outraged would be an overstatement, but the evidence suggests the FO let this slip through the cracks and that's disappointing. There is a word for what you're saying Dombrowski should have done - talk to Stanton's agent without having an agreement with the Marlins first. That's tampering, and he'd potentially have gotten the team in trouble by doing it. You can't go talk to a player's agents while they're under contract with another team. That's why the Cardinals and Giants had potential deals in place before talking to Stanton and getting shot down. Dombrowski doesn't get a chance to change Stanton's mind unless the Marlins let him. Outrage at Jeter for putting the Marlins in a position to get nothing for Stanton I get and think is well-founded. He bought the team and is gutting it to pay himself back, which is BS. That said, once the Marlins were committed to trading Stanton and he narrowed the potential suitors to four teams, of course they weren't going to get anything. Those four teams had the Marlins by the short ones at that point - you need to trade this player, there's not a whole lot of realistic options, we're not bailing you out. I'll admit that I was wrong about what the Marlins would get for Stanton, but I didn't realize he was going to wield his no-trade so aggressively (which is his prerogative and is fine - that's why you negotiate for one). Dombrowski check in with the Marlins. The price was too high. The Marlins had deals done with the Cards and Giants. Those fell through, at which point he called again. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do there. As for the comment that the Yankees getting him messes with their plans, to put it in terms that needn't be censored, it's because the Yankees got better, not because the Red Sox screwed up by not getting him. Dombrowski has not been perfect as the Red Sox GM. Far from it. But killing him for the Yankees trading for Stanton doesn't make any sense, particularly with so many chips still on the table. At the end of the offseason, if Dombrowski fails to address needs or winds up overpaying in a panic move, cool, get him for that. But good grief, let's all cool out for a minute. As you mentioned, it's not tampering if they worked out the framework of a deal with the Marlins first and the Marlins consented to them speaking to Stanton and his agents. The argument is that Dombrowski should have tried harder to reach a deal with the Marlins. The prospect price doesn't appear to have been very high, and there's no indication that Dombrowski went so far as to make a concrete offer. That's the argument-- you might disagree with it, but it's a valid argument.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 12, 2017 10:22:01 GMT -5
This thread is creeping up on "Kopech only walked people because Single-A hitters were too slow to react and couldn't swing and miss in time" territory.
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 12, 2017 10:24:19 GMT -5
This thread is creeping up on "Kopech only walked people because Single-A hitters were too slow to react and couldn't swing and miss in time" territory. Didn't you ever see guys in the GCL swinging at the dugout thinking about the previous AB?
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 12, 2017 10:31:14 GMT -5
Yes, but what I didn't realize was that their reactions were so slow they didn't even realize they were out yet.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 12, 2017 10:35:03 GMT -5
Sure. 1) So what if they weren't on the list - maybe it's because they never tried to sell Stanton's agents (and by extension, Stanton) on the fit. And if you're not on the list why not make the solid offer like St L and SF did - not on the list but Sox have better chances of making playoffs than either next couple years. 2) Sounds like a pretty tepid "call." And FWIW, I actually believe the agent in this case - Occam's razor. He has less to lose in a lie. Piss poor job by Dombrowski overall tells me ownership never wanted to pay that bill. As I just said, that would be tampering. Yet I read reports that teams were able to speak to his agents before hand. Stanton's agent said as much in his statements. Is it tampering when the controlling team grants permission?
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 12, 2017 10:42:03 GMT -5
Yes, but what I didn't realize was that their reactions were so slow they didn't even realize they were out yet. My joke sucked though, it's hard to follow "Single-A hitters were too slow to react and couldn't swing and miss in time" in sheer hilarity lol.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 12, 2017 10:42:50 GMT -5
At the end of the offseason, if Dombrowski fails to address needs or winds up overpaying in a panic move, cool, get him for that. But good grief, let's all cool out for a minute. Yeah, that's the thing. To whatever extent Dombrowski failed to pursue Stanton aggressively enough, it's not like getting Stanton was the only way for the Red Sox to have a successful offseason. I'd rather just sign JD Martinez for half the money, for instance. I'd potentially rather trade for Abreu if the price gets low enough. Hell, the Marlins probably aren't done just giving guys away. There are plenty of other options out there. Maybe missing out on Stanton ends up being a huge mistake, but until the rest of the offseason plays out, we can't make that determination. Also, once it became obvious that Stanton could dictate what team he ended up on, it was pretty much over for the Red Sox. I'm sorry Boston fans, but seriously, what are you offering him that the Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs aren't? The fact that Adam Jones got a nice apology? Good luck with that.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 12, 2017 10:49:25 GMT -5
This thread is creeping up on "Kopech only walked people because Single-A hitters were too slow to react and couldn't swing and miss in time" territory. Especially since people have been complaining about it already ... Gee, if only there were some way to remove all the posts to some other thread ...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 12, 2017 11:15:27 GMT -5
At the end of the offseason, if Dombrowski fails to address needs or winds up overpaying in a panic move, cool, get him for that. But good grief, let's all cool out for a minute. Also, once it became obvious that Stanton could dictate what team he ended up on, it was pretty much over for the Red Sox. I'm sorry Boston fans, but seriously, what are you offering him that the Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs aren't? The fact that Adam Jones got a nice apology? Good luck with that. Ouch. Talk about coming in hot Lol.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 12, 2017 11:26:34 GMT -5
Excited for Jabari Blash to hit 41 homers when either Judge or Stanton get hurt.
Only half joking about that - Blash isn't really "good" per se, but his power is legit. Think a taller Bryce Brentz.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2017 11:56:57 GMT -5
I searched the board and found two posts that referenced Stanton's "power" as being generational. Let's not build a strawman here. Maybe only two about power, but there has to be 20 plus post calling Stanton Generational in some form over the last 3-4 months. Which is the point, it just keeps happening.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 12, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -5
I searched the board and found two posts that referenced Stanton's "power" as being generational. Let's not build a strawman here. Maybe only two about power, but there has to be 20 plus post calling Stanton Generational in some form over the last 3-4 months. Which is the point, it just keeps happening. We could argue about the definition of "generational" all day but why bother? It doesn't change the type of player that Stanton is. Which, namely, is a guy who is not only a top ten-ish player in baseball but one who achieves that greatness through a unique and impressive skill set. He's the type of a guy a franchise is lucky to develop once in a generation. Assign whatever word you'd like to that.
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 12, 2017 12:16:17 GMT -5
I searched the board and found two posts that referenced Stanton's "power" as being generational. Let's not build a strawman here. Maybe only two about power, but there has to be 20 plus post calling Stanton Generational in some form over the last 3-4 months. Which is the point, it just keeps happening. As I said, I searched the entire board and only found, in total, two mentions of Stanton being generational (and they mostly referred to his power being generational - not him as a player). Maybe the other posters are using a different word, but almost no one is calling Stanton generational much less 20 plus times.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2017 12:30:17 GMT -5
Maybe only two about power, but there has to be 20 plus post calling Stanton Generational in some form over the last 3-4 months. Which is the point, it just keeps happening. We could argue about the definition of "generational" all day but why bother? It doesn't change the type of player that Stanton is. Which, namely, is a guy who is not only a top ten-ish player in baseball but one who achieves that greatness through a unique and impressive skill set. He's the type of a guy a franchise is lucky to develop once in a generation. Assign whatever word you'd like to that. He's a guy that has had top 10 seasons, but overall he averages 4.4 bwar a season over the last 8 years. That is not a top 10 player over the last 8 years. Maybe he can be that going forward for the next 3-5 years, but that's a big maybe. He has been a very good player, that can be great at times. Over the last 8 years he ranks 17th in fwar. Pedroia has a higher war total over that time. I have never once heard anyone call Pedroia a generational talent.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2017 12:34:07 GMT -5
Maybe only two about power, but there has to be 20 plus post calling Stanton Generational in some form over the last 3-4 months. Which is the point, it just keeps happening. As I said, I searched the entire board and only found, in total, two mentions of Stanton being generational (and they mostly referred to his power being generational - not him as a player). Maybe the other posters are using a different word, but almost no one is calling Stanton generational much less 20 plus times. I just searched another thread and got like 8 hits on the word generational. No offense but you didn't search the entire board.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 12, 2017 12:42:15 GMT -5
We could argue about the definition of "generational" all day but why bother? It doesn't change the type of player that Stanton is. Which, namely, is a guy who is not only a top ten-ish player in baseball but one who achieves that greatness through a unique and impressive skill set. He's the type of a guy a franchise is lucky to develop once in a generation. Assign whatever word you'd like to that. He's a guy that has had top 10 seasons, but overall he averages 4.4 bwar a season over the last 8 years. That is not a top 10 player over the last 8 years. Maybe he can be that going forward for the next 3-5 years, but that's a big maybe. He has been a very good player, that can be great at times. Over the last 8 years he ranks 17th in fwar. Pedroia has a higher war total over that time. I have never once heard anyone call Pedroia a generational talent. This parsing of "generational" is ridiculous and provides no insight, your use of 8-year as the qualifier to include Stanton's rookie half-season is intentionally misleading, and "is Dustin Pedroia a Hall of Famer" is a legitimate question that people have started asking: www.google.com/search?q=dustin+pedroia+hall+of+fame&oq=Dustin+Pedroia+Hall+of+Fame&aqs=chrome.0.0l3.3543j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8Anyway, my scouting eye tells me affirmatively that Jabari Blash is taller than Dustin Pedroia.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2017 12:59:46 GMT -5
He's a guy that has had top 10 seasons, but overall he averages 4.4 bwar a season over the last 8 years. That is not a top 10 player over the last 8 years. Maybe he can be that going forward for the next 3-5 years, but that's a big maybe. He has been a very good player, that can be great at times. Over the last 8 years he ranks 17th in fwar. Pedroia has a higher war total over that time. I have never once heard anyone call Pedroia a generational talent. This parsing of "generational" is ridiculous and provides no insight, your use of 8-year as the qualifier to include Stanton's rookie half-season is intentionally misleading, and "is Dustin Pedroia a Hall of Famer" is a legitimate question that people have started asking: www.google.com/search?q=dustin+pedroia+hall+of+fame&oq=Dustin+Pedroia+Hall+of+Fame&aqs=chrome.0.0l3.3543j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8Anyway, my scouting eye tells me affirmatively that Jabari Blash is taller than Dustin Pedroia. He played a 100 games and had two seasons with lower war totals than that year. Take it out Pedroia is still a head of him and Stanton moves from 17th to 16th. Nothing misleading about it at all. What's your point about Pedroia? The HOF is filled with players that weren't generational talents.
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