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Post by Guidas on Dec 8, 2017 11:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 8, 2017 11:46:33 GMT -5
It seems like a bit of a stretch to say the Yankees are now in play for Giancarlo when they have seemingly been out on him for the whole offseason so far. I guess things can change but the fact that those are the only teams that we know of that he will accept a trade to doesn't really mean much in my mind. Personally I think he is being ridiculous, he says he wants out but won't accept a trade to the Giants or Cardinals who are the only teams we know of that made a legitimate offer. I can't see any of those four teams listed having interest in swinging a deal for him unless the Marlins all of a sudden eat more of the contract but if they did that the Marlins would want a better package. Hopefully he decides soon and we can just move on with the offseason. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 8, 2017 13:07:38 GMT -5
It seems like a bit of a stretch to say the Yankees are now in play for Giancarlo when they have seemingly been out on him for the whole offseason so far. I guess things can change but the fact that those are the only teams that we know of that he will accept a trade to doesn't really mean much in my mind. Personally I think he is being ridiculous, he says he wants out but won't accept a trade to the Giants or Cardinals who are the only teams we know of that made a legitimate offer. I can't see any of those four teams listed having interest in swinging a deal for him unless the Marlins all of a sudden eat more of the contract but if they did that the Marlins would want a better package. Hopefully he decides soon and we can just move on with the offseason. I don't see it that way. Everyone thinks the Yankees give Harper 10 years 400 million plus. If Stanton doesn't cost much in a trade, why wouldn't they want him at 10 years 250 million? Nevermind it's not a given the Nationals don't resign Harper. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 8, 2017 13:22:07 GMT -5
My thought is that Stanton has been known to be available all offseason and still the reports say the Yankees have had minimal discussion with the Marlins about Stanton to this point which leads me to think they aren't interested in trading for him. These reports reek of media trying to create a story out of nothing by linking Stanton to the Yankees even though there has been minimal link to this point. That certainly could change but I don't see it.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Dec 8, 2017 18:13:55 GMT -5
@jonmorosi
3m3 minutes ago
#SFGiants statement: ". . . It is our understanding that the Marlins and Stanton are exploring other options." @mlb @mlbnetwork
@jonmorosi
9m9 minutes ago
BREAKING: Giancarlo Stanton has used no-trade clause to reject agreed-upon trade to #SFGiants. @mlb @mlbnetwork
Per Jon Morosi, Stanton is using his no trade clause to nix a deal to the Giants. So, with the Cards and Giants out, I don't like the thoughts of the other options. I hope not the Yankees.
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Post by artfuldodger on Dec 8, 2017 18:18:16 GMT -5
Stanton’s rejection of Giants and Cardinals bad news for Red Sox on several fronts. The price of the free agents increased. Hopefully, Stanton stays in National League.
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Post by prangerx on Dec 8, 2017 18:27:27 GMT -5
I'm surprised he is being so picky. Those are both great baseball franchises without the media pressures of New York or Boston. And he would have a better chance to contend sooner than in Miami.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 8, 2017 18:31:25 GMT -5
Stanton’s rejection of Giants and Cardinals bad news for Red Sox on several fronts. The price of the free agents increased. Hopefully, Stanton stays in National League. Agreed on hoping Stanton stays in the NL. Not sure that SF or STL make sense for JDM without the ability to be at DH. Maybe it causes the price to go up on him, maybe not. But none of the teams that have really missed out on Stanton or Ohtani are super ideal candidates for Martinez |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2017 19:37:10 GMT -5
Apparently Stanton is hoping the Dodgers step forward. And if they don't, then he's hoping the Yankees, Cubs, and Astros will step forward. Don't know if it's a coincidence that those teams were baseball's final four. If the Indians didn't blow that 2 game to 0 lead against NY does that mean that Cleveland would be on the list, but not NY? I would still wonder why Boston wouldn't be on the list, but either way it looks like Stanton is trying to steer the deal to LA.
Meanwhile even though JD Martinez is totally a DH waiting to happen, the Giants will probably bid huge $. My hope is that there is some sort of deal that the Pirates and Giants can strike for McCutchen as that would might take the Giants out of a JD Martinez sweepstakes.
For the long-term deal Martinez is seeking it makes very little sense for a NL team to go after him, but that's what I think will happen. Martinez to Boston makes so much sense on so many levels.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2017 21:09:37 GMT -5
I'm surprised he is being so picky. Those are both great baseball franchises without the media pressures of New York or Boston. And he would have a better chance to contend sooner than in Miami. I'm kind of hoping that Stanton rots in Miami now. That would be great Karma in all of this. Be careful what you wish for when rejecting trades, Stanton. |
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Dec 8, 2017 22:37:05 GMT -5
@jeffpassan
4m4 minutes ago
Sources: Yankees making progress on a trade for Giancarlo Stanton. One source cautioned nothing done. Another was confident it’s moving toward that. Either way, momentum for Stanton to Yankees is significant.
Damn it. Of course, the MFYs will probably get to unload their bad contracts to go with prospects they can give up. They'll have an incredible lineup.
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Post by wrangler713 on Dec 8, 2017 23:04:53 GMT -5
@jeffpassan 4m4 minutes ago Sources: Yankees making progress on a trade for Giancarlo Stanton. One source cautioned nothing done. Another was confident it’s moving toward that. Either way, momentum for Stanton to Yankees is significant. Damn it. Of course, the MFYs will probably get to unload their bad contracts to go with prospects they can give up. They'll have an incredible lineup. Really their only bad contract is ellsbury and theres no way he is going to be moved in that deal. I could see them trading Castro, and some of their better but not top 4 prospects. Castro, Acevedo, Estrada, Cave and a lottery pick like Dermis Garcia who has incredible power. Maybe the Marlins picking up 3 million on Stanton for the next two years. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2017 23:27:54 GMT -5
This is our nightmare. The Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract.
My guess that the package is Betances, Gardner, and Frazier heading to Miami. That'll only add 9 million AAV to their payroll next year. It's doable and is probably getting done.
I hate the Yankees with every inch of my soul.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Dec 8, 2017 23:39:58 GMT -5
This is our nightmare. The Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract. My guess that the package is Betances, Gardner, and Frazier heading to Miami. That'll only add 9 million AAV to their payroll next year. It's doable and is probably getting done. I hate the Yankees with every inch of my soul. I don't think the MFYs will give up Betances or Frazier in that deal. My guess is Gardner or Castro and prospects not in their top 3. If not Gardner, they can spin him off to replenish the prospects. Cashman has been incredible in rebuilding the MFYs. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2017 23:49:37 GMT -5
This is our nightmare. The Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract.
My guess that the package is Betances, Gardner, and Frazier heading to Miami. That'll only add 9 million AAV to their payroll next year. It's doable and is probably getting done. I hate the Yankees with every inch of my soul. I really hope the bolded part isn't true. If the Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract then I think they're being foolish. The Yankees aren't letting money concerns get in the way for the right player. The Yankees would be getting the player the Red Sox really, really need. Last time I checked the Yankees already have a 50 HR hitter in their outfield, and of course that's more than twice the amount of homers that the Sox top hitter had last year - and Stanton had more than that. This is the premier power hitter in baseball. The Yankees, last year according to the pythagorean record, were much superior to the Red Sox who were an amazing 15-2 in extra inning games last season. This would widen the gap. I really hope the Dodgers rescue the Sox here and get Stanton. The Red Sox can't afford to let Stanton go to the Yankees and lose out on JD Martinez's bat, too. Nothing has happened yet and I'm already pretty leery about what next week will bring. When the offseason started I thought the Sox would pounce on Stanton or at least get Martinez (and they still might, but the price has now gone up - up to the point they might be better off with Stanton). |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 9, 2017 0:04:05 GMT -5
Stanton makes a ton of sense, but you can't blame any team for staying away from a 10 year contract. Especially one with Stantons injury history.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 9, 2017 0:04:41 GMT -5
This is our nightmare. The Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract.
My guess that the package is Betances, Gardner, and Frazier heading to Miami. That'll only add 9 million AAV to their payroll next year. It's doable and is probably getting done. I hate the Yankees with every inch of my soul. I really hope the bolded part isn't true. If the Red Sox won't get involved because of the fears of a big contract then I think they're being foolish. The Yankees aren't letting money concerns get in the way for the right player. The Yankees would be getting the player the Red Sox really, really need. Last time I checked the Yankees already have a 50 HR hitter in their outfield, and of course that's more than twice the amount of homers that the Sox top hitter had last year - and Stanton had more than that. This is the premier power hitter in baseball. The Yankees, last year according to the pythagorean record, were much superior to the Red Sox who were an amazing 15-2 in extra inning games last season. This would widen the gap. I really hope the Dodgers rescue the Sox here and get Stanton. The Red Sox can't afford to let Stanton go to the Yankees and lose out on JD Martinez's bat, too. Nothing has happened yet and I'm already pretty leery about what next week will bring. When the offseason started I thought the Sox would pounce on Stanton or at least get Martinez (and they still might, but the price has now gone up - up to the point they might be better off with Stanton). Stanton won’t approve a trade to the Sox. So there is no point in trying træd for him. |
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Post by wrangler713 on Dec 9, 2017 0:19:53 GMT -5
Stanton, Gregorius, Judge, Sanchez, Bird, and Torres. In the same line up? Also Andujar is going to mash if he ever gets a shot at 3B.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 9, 2017 0:24:20 GMT -5
I'm probably not being partisan enough, but the team in his list of acceptables that caught my eye is the Astros. DH was one of their few weak spots. That might just help preserve Stanton's and they could also rotate him into the corner outfield spots. That would make an already formidable lineup tough 1 through 9.
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 9, 2017 0:33:26 GMT -5
Now the MFY have entered the mix, I'm sure he'll have no interest in the Sox, but I'm not convinced he would have vetoed a trade to Boston had they shown enough interest from the start. I have nothing to back that up, and won't argue if someone disagrees, but I think the Sox passed up an opportunity to land a great player.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 9, 2017 0:46:41 GMT -5
The latest is that the deal to the Yankees is close if not done. Sounds like it's happening. The question I want answered is did Stanton say no to Boston or did the Sox say no to his contract.
If it's the former there's nothing the Red Sox can do about it. If it's the latter, that ticks me off.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 9, 2017 0:59:01 GMT -5
Stanton makes a ton of sense, but you can't blame any team for staying away from a 10 year contract. Especially one with Stantons injury history. I don't agree here. With the availability of the DH spot that should somewhat mitigate Stanton's nagging injuries and I don't find the contract that prohibitive. This isn't the contract the Ms gave Cano. Stanton is only 28, the premier power hitter of his time, and on a HOF path. This guy might blast 600 home runs when all is said and done. I don't think he's a flameout waiting to happen. And say Stanton was agreeable, which we don't know either way, then who are the Red Sox looking to spend the money on? Mookie Betts? I'd think Stanton is a better bet to give long-term big money to than Chris Sale. Who else at this point? And $25 annual toward the luxury tax limit will be minimalized over the next ten years as contracts continue to escalate. The fact is the Yankees are getting much better today and the Red Sox are not, and will be hard pressed to keep up - and this IS the Red Sox window to capitalize. The farm system is dry and it's very questionable that after 2020 that the Red Sox will even be highly competitive as they are now. I wonder who the Marlins get. A contract like Castro or Headly perhaps? Which prospects? I'd think Frazier. I remember mentioning earlier at some point if the Yanks were to go after Stanton they'd have Clint Frazier to dangle. Perhaps Andujar as they wouldn't necessarily need him. |
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 9, 2017 1:13:59 GMT -5
Stanton makes a ton of sense, but you can't blame any team for staying away from a 10 year contract. Especially one with Stantons injury history. The fact is the Yankees are getting much better today and the Red Sox are not, and will be hard pressed to keep up - and this IS the Red Sox window to capitalize. The farm system is dry and it's very questionable that after 2020 that the Red Sox will even be highly competitive as they are now This is what I keep thinking about. The Sox went all in last off-season. To pull up now, and watch the window close before it ever really opened is going to be painful to watch. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 9, 2017 1:49:15 GMT -5
Stanton makes a ton of sense, but you can't blame any team for staying away from a 10 year contract. Especially one with Stantons injury history. I don't agree here. With the availability of the DH spot that should somewhat mitigate Stanton's nagging injuries and I don't find the contract that prohibitive. This isn't the contract the Ms gave Cano. Stanton is only 28, the premier power hitter of his time, and on a HOF path. This guy might blast 600 home runs when all is said and done. I don't think he's a flameout waiting to happen. And say Stanton was agreeable, which we don't know either way, then who are the Red Sox looking to spend the money on? Mookie Betts? I'd think Stanton is a better bet to give long-term big money to than Chris Sale. Who else at this point? And $25 annual toward the luxury tax limit will be minimalized over the next ten years as contracts continue to escalate. The fact is the Yankees are getting much better today and the Red Sox are not, and will be hard pressed to keep up - and this IS the Red Sox window to capitalize. The farm system is dry and it's very questionable that after 2020 that the Red Sox will even be highly competitive as they are now. I wonder who the Marlins get. A contract like Castro or Headly perhaps? Which prospects? I'd think Frazier. I remember mentioning earlier at some point if the Yanks were to go after Stanton they'd have Clint Frazier to dangle. Perhaps Andujar as they wouldn't necessarily need him. I'm not totally against it, but I can certainly understand not wanting to take that much risk. You have no clue when players will decline. Just look at Pujols who was an absolute monster and then started declining at age 31. Stanton hasn't even been close to Pujols type good year in and year out. I think you are over hyping Stanton. He has only hit 30 plus HR once for two straight years. Before this years 59 HRs his career high was 37, which he did twice. Those aren't the numbers of the premier power hitter of his time. Maybe if he could stay healthy, but he just hasn't till this year. Moving him to DH kills his value and is a big waste. He has 267 HRs in his first 8 years and 59 of those are from last year. He has a chance at 600, but he needs to stay healthy as he gets older. I get it, he just had a monster year. You can dream on him doing that for the next 5 years. What if you get his 2015 and 2016 seasons though? If he gets traded for peanuts and the Marlins eat money it could have made sense. Thing is there would have been a ton of risk. So I'm OK with passing on him. You could use that 295 million to sign a bunch of players. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 9, 2017 2:44:06 GMT -5
I don't agree here. With the availability of the DH spot that should somewhat mitigate Stanton's nagging injuries and I don't find the contract that prohibitive. This isn't the contract the Ms gave Cano. Stanton is only 28, the premier power hitter of his time, and on a HOF path. This guy might blast 600 home runs when all is said and done. I don't think he's a flameout waiting to happen. And say Stanton was agreeable, which we don't know either way, then who are the Red Sox looking to spend the money on? Mookie Betts? I'd think Stanton is a better bet to give long-term big money to than Chris Sale. Who else at this point? And $25 annual toward the luxury tax limit will be minimalized over the next ten years as contracts continue to escalate. The fact is the Yankees are getting much better today and the Red Sox are not, and will be hard pressed to keep up - and this IS the Red Sox window to capitalize. The farm system is dry and it's very questionable that after 2020 that the Red Sox will even be highly competitive as they are now. I wonder who the Marlins get. A contract like Castro or Headly perhaps? Which prospects? I'd think Frazier. I remember mentioning earlier at some point if the Yanks were to go after Stanton they'd have Clint Frazier to dangle. Perhaps Andujar as they wouldn't necessarily need him. I'm not totally against it, but I can certainly understand not wanting to take that much risk. You have no clue when players will decline. Just look at Pujols who was an absolute monster and then started declining at age 31. Stanton hasn't even been close to Pujols type good year in and year out. I think you are over hyping Stanton. He has only hit 30 plus HR once for two straight years. Before this years 59 HRs his career high was 37, which he did twice. Those aren't the numbers of the premier power hitter of his time. Maybe if he could stay healthy, but he just hasn't till this year. Moving him to DH kills his value and is a big waste. He has 267 HRs in his first 8 years and 59 of those are from last year. He has a chance at 600, but he needs to stay healthy as he gets older. I get it, he just had a monster year. You can dream on him doing that for the next 5 years. What if you get his 2015 and 2016 seasons though? If he gets traded for peanuts and the Marlins eat money it could have made sense. Thing is there would have been a ton of risk. So I'm OK with passing on him. You could use that 295 million to sign a bunch of players. And I think you're way underrating him. Yes he's had some injury shortened seasons. Fine. Even with those injury shortened seasons his worst OPS were .815 and .845, accomplished in a ballpark that isn't overly conducive to offense like Fenway Park is. His career OPS is over .900, which is a heckuva lot higher than just about anybody on the Red Sox had last year. He's 28 so I would anticipate he'd have at least two or three good to amazing seasons out of 3, and right now it's those three seasons which are most valuable unless you're of the mind that the burgeoning farm system will be producing a bunch of players to take over for Betts, Bradley, and Bogaerts over the next few years and provide strong young pitching for when/if Sale (do you really want to commit huge years and $ to him? - isn't that riskier?), Pomeranz, and Porcello leave, or if Price either leaves or has injury issues. I also bring up 3 seasons because after 2020 Stanton would likely be gone as I'm sure his annual salary won't look as big as it does once other contracts get signed next offseason and the one afterwards. You mentioned Pujols falling off a cliff when he was 31. Stanton has 2 or 3 seasons until that point, so I would anticipate he'd be highly productive and most likely gone for greener pastures after 3 seasons meaning that he wouldn't be an albatross for the other 7 years. Stanton is exactly the type of risk the Red Sox need to take. As far as getting lesser players? It could work. I mean the 2013 Red Sox made it work, but I don't think the Red Sox get say Carlos Santana and bring back Eduardo Nunez (for example if you don't get Martinez) and expect to be better than the Yankees. The Red Sox need a pure masher in the middle of the lineup. They had the historic two headed monster in the middle of the order that they rode to two Championship and they still had "The Guy" in Ortiz. Now they don't have anybody of that sort, and Stanton is one of those types of guys that you fear. Getting Santana or Hosmer isn't going to get you to that level. It's just not. Now if the Red Sox sign Martinez, at least they've accomplished that much. And like I said if Stanton informed the Red Sox he wasn't interested then there's nothing Dombrowski could have done. I do think sooner or later somebody like a Gammons will let us know if that's the case. |
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