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Brentz Traded to Pirates for Cash
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2018 17:31:38 GMT -5
I guess it depends on your definition of nice player. Five pennies aren't going to get the Red Sox a nickel. The Twins took a shiny penny and got a $100 bill back in Odorizzi. This is the danger of using stupid trades as a basis of what you can expect next. I find it almost impossible to believe they couldn't have gotten more than that.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 20, 2018 17:37:45 GMT -5
The Twins took a shiny penny and got a $100 bill back in Odorizzi. This is the danger of using stupid trades as a basis of what you can expect next. I find it almost impossible to believe they couldn't have gotten more than that. Stupid in what way? I think the Twins look pretty darn smart after that trade.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2018 17:42:07 GMT -5
This is the danger of using stupid trades as a basis of what you can expect next. I find it almost impossible to believe they couldn't have gotten more than that. Stupid in what way? I think the Twins look pretty darn smart after that trade. The Rays were the dumb ones. I cannot imagine that no team would offer more than that and take a chance on a guy that could easily bounce back. I would not use that trade as the basis for what the Red Sox could get for a bunch of players they don't need. Every team knows that the Red Sox have a roster crunch and aren't going to give up anything for any of the ones who are on the fringe of making the team.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 20, 2018 17:54:46 GMT -5
Maybe the Sox have more faith in Swihart as outfielder, even with the lack of experience. I think he might be already better than Brentz as a outfielder myself. Way more athletic out there. Last time he saw him in the OF for the Red Sox it didn't go well - but agree he probably is better depth there than as an IF. I know a lot of people hated the move with Swihart in the outfield, but I think he looked pretty good out there up until the injury.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 20, 2018 17:58:18 GMT -5
As I mentioned earlier, Brentz is useful if any one of seven guys gets hurt in ST. Meanwhile, Heath Hembree is also out of options and is the fifteenth most valuable pitcher on the roster (I don't think there's a good argument for him being better than Workman.) He's only useful if three guys simultaneously are hurt. The alternative to Brentz if one of those seven guys does get hurt is either carrying two backup catchers, or a third utility infielder. In many scenarios, it makes Holt the 4th OFer on days when JDM is at DH. The alternative to Hembree if there are three or more pitching injuries is Austin Maddox, who may not even be a downgrade. If two of the seven guys Brentz was backing up get hurt, you're starting to get into Jesse Barfield territory. If there are four or more pitching injuries, you've still get the best of Beeks, Velazquez, and half a dozen other guys, and that might not be a downgrade, either. Hembree has legitimate trade value as a 0.5 fWAR reliever and the other options to take his 25-man spot have minor league options. There wasn't anyone for the Red Sox to demote to AAA in order to keep Brentz.(and it seems clear they want to keep Swihart)
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 20, 2018 18:08:20 GMT -5
Stupid in what way? I think the Twins look pretty darn smart after that trade. The Rays were the dumb ones. I cannot imagine that no team would offer more than that and take a chance on a guy that could easily bounce back. I would not use that trade as the basis for what the Red Sox could get for a bunch of players they don't need. Every team knows that the Red Sox have a roster crunch and aren't going to give up anything for any of the ones who are on the fringe of making the team. If you look down a little further on page 1 you'll see that Champs and I continued our discussion on this where I say I get his point on the roster crunch knocking down the value of Marrero and Holt.But I would at least like to get something back like a lottery ticket type of player. And after thinking about this if a better option doesn't come along why don't the Sox use the DL on Marrero and Holt?
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Post by jiant2520 on Feb 20, 2018 18:58:30 GMT -5
Hmmm... I guess they just like Swihart as an OF option more.
I really wanted to see him this spring.
Oh well....
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Post by congusgambler33 on Feb 20, 2018 19:00:33 GMT -5
Last time he saw him in the OF for the Red Sox it didn't go well - but agree he probably is better depth there than as an IF. I know a lot of people hated the move with Swihart in the outfield, but I think he looked pretty good out there up until the injury. I know they hated it was because he got hurt and it cost him serious playing time. I am looking forward to what he can do this year with Tim Hyers in the fold. He ws in Portland when most of these younger players were there and they all hit very well. Hopefully he can turn Blake around and get him to hit the way he can.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Feb 20, 2018 19:32:20 GMT -5
At the end of the season, Brentz & Nava will have the highest OPS of Pirate outfielders
Pirates are bad, and their milb system is average Projected at 75 wins
Will we forget Brentz? He's gone We better learn how to face it
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 20, 2018 22:23:43 GMT -5
I am kind of surprised, though, that Marrero outlasted him. They are much thinner in the outfield than at utility infielder, and as stated, they're one injury away from with a non-40-man guy or having Holt or Lin as the 4th OF. I guess the counter to that would be while they are obviously much deeper in the infield on the 40-man, Tavarez, Barfield, and Selsky (and I guess Castillo) give them decent replacements in the outfield who are not on the roster. Compare that to the infield, where there really isn't anyone off of the 40-man who can give even a Marrero-type value.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2018 22:25:27 GMT -5
If we traded Hanley for peanuts plus salary relief, we'd could be under by enough to use Castillo as the 4th outfielder without going back over the cap.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2018 22:32:33 GMT -5
I am kind of surprised, though, that Marrero outlasted him. They are much thinner in the outfield than at utility infielder, and as stated, they're one injury away from with a non-40-man guy or having Holt or Lin as the 4th OF. I guess the counter to that would be while they are obviously much deeper in the infield on the 40-man, Tavarez, Barfield, and Selsky (and I guess Castillo) give them decent replacements in the outfield who are not on the roster. Compare that to the infield, where there really isn't anyone off of the 40-man who can give even a Marrero-type value. Then we're set because with non-starters, Nunez, Hernandez, Lin & Holt there would petty much have to be a bus accident to need Marrero. Also, another counter could be that the new hitting coach thinks he can fix him.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2018 22:43:27 GMT -5
The Twins took a shiny penny and got a $100 bill back in Odorizzi. This is the danger of using stupid trades as a basis of what you can expect next. I find it almost impossible to believe they couldn't have gotten more than that. That shiny penny is actually the $6 million which Oderizzi is owed. TB is into micro-managing their paltry player budget and, yes, this was about cinching the belt good and tight and dumping salary. That's also behind the Cron trade and the release of Dickerson. Sad case.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2018 22:44:24 GMT -5
If we traded Hanley for peanuts plus salary relief, we'd could be under by enough to use Castillo as the 4th outfielder without going back over the cap. Why??
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2018 23:09:01 GMT -5
Ramirez is redundant, Castillo is a better outfielder than Brentz was.
ADD: Ramirez' likely 250ish ABs are a huge overpay especially in light of not having seen any reports of anything being done about his shoulder. Sunk cost yes but getting under the cap would reduce the sting of the overpay. If Moreland got hurt, I'd rather see Travis at first than Hanley (assuming he can even play in the field anymore).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2018 23:31:22 GMT -5
Ramirez is redundant, Castillo is a better outfielder than Brentz. How is Hanley redundant? He has the ability to be one of their best hitters and also one of their best homerun hitters. If he's healthy I don't see why he couldn't replicate his 2016 season. There's certainly enough room for a DH that hit .300 with 35 homers and a 1b who's capable of hitting .280 with 30 homers. I don't see how that's a replication. Oh I'm not saying Hanley is a fantastic 1b - I get why he's thought of as a DH, but he can be serviceable at 1b. He's not great there, but he's not Dick Stuart either, and they have the luxury of bringing in Moreland for defense late in games and if Hanley breaks down they can bring in Moreland. If somebody in the OF gets hurt, they can stick JDM in LF and play Hanley at DH with Moreland at 1b or against lefties once Pedroia is back, they could stick Nunez as a DH. If JDM needs time off, then Hanley reverts back to DH/1b with Moreland at 1b or Nunez DHing. Hanley isn't redundant and I don't understand why a roster with 3 centerfielders needs a 10 million dollar backup CF. I do believe Rusney Castillo can be a major league CF, but it's not something the Red Sox absolutely need to do, given the composition of their roster.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 20, 2018 23:53:34 GMT -5
Ramirez is redundant, Castillo is a better outfielder than Brentz. How is Hanley redundant? He has the ability to be one of their best hitters and also one of their best homerun hitters. If he's healthy I don't see why he couldn't replicate his 2016 season. There's certainly enough room for a DH that hit .300 with 35 homers and a 1b who's capable of hitting .280 with 30 homers. I don't see how that's a replication. Oh I'm not saying Hanley is a fantastic 1b - I get why he's thought of as a DH, but he can be serviceable at 1b. He's not great there, but he's not Dick Stuart either, and they have the luxury of bringing in Moreland for defense late in games and if Hanley breaks down they can bring in Moreland. If somebody in the OF gets hurt, they can stick JDM in LF and play Hanley at DH with Moreland at 1b or against lefties once Pedroia is back, they could stick Nunez as a DH. If JDM needs time off, then Hanley reverts back to DH/1b with Moreland at 1b or Nunez DHing. Hanley isn't redundant and I don't understand why a roster with 3 centerfielders needs a 10 million dollar backup CF. I do believe Rusney Castillo can be a major league CF, but it's not something the Red Sox absolutely need to do, given the composition of their roster. Did you read any positive news on his shoulder ? Last year, he couldn't play in the field and against lefties, something he was historically good at, his OPS was .679, and wRC+ was 65. What's the basis for optimism ?
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Feb 21, 2018 0:47:49 GMT -5
How is Hanley redundant? He has the ability to be one of their best hitters and also one of their best homerun hitters. If he's healthy I don't see why he couldn't replicate his 2016 season. There's certainly enough room for a DH that hit .300 with 35 homers and a 1b who's capable of hitting .280 with 30 homers. I don't see how that's a replication. Oh I'm not saying Hanley is a fantastic 1b - I get why he's thought of as a DH, but he can be serviceable at 1b. He's not great there, but he's not Dick Stuart either, and they have the luxury of bringing in Moreland for defense late in games and if Hanley breaks down they can bring in Moreland. If somebody in the OF gets hurt, they can stick JDM in LF and play Hanley at DH with Moreland at 1b or against lefties once Pedroia is back, they could stick Nunez as a DH. If JDM needs time off, then Hanley reverts back to DH/1b with Moreland at 1b or Nunez DHing. Hanley isn't redundant and I don't understand why a roster with 3 centerfielders needs a 10 million dollar backup CF. I do believe Rusney Castillo can be a major league CF, but it's not something the Red Sox absolutely need to do, given the composition of their roster. Did you read any positive news on his shoulder ? Last year, he couldn't play in the field and against lefties, something he was historically good at, his OPS was .679, and wRC+ was 65. What's the basis for optimism ? He had shoulder surgery during the offseason. He says he’s feeling great. He’s been taking grounders and throwing without pain for weeks, something he wasn’t about to do at the beginning of the season last year. That doesn’t mean he’s going to hit, but those aren’t reasons to be optimistic?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 21, 2018 1:05:50 GMT -5
Did you read any positive news on his shoulder ? Last year, he couldn't play in the field and against lefties, something he was historically good at, his OPS was .679, and wRC+ was 65. What's the basis for optimism ? He had shoulder surgery during the offseason. He says he’s feeling great. He’s been taking grounders and throwing without pain for weeks, something he wasn’t about to do at the beginning of the season last year. That doesn’t mean he’s going to hit, but those aren’t reasons to be optimistic? That's good news, I hadn't seen where he had surgery. Then yes, there's room for optimism.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 21, 2018 7:38:49 GMT -5
Hanley is essentially in a contract year. He also has Cora as a manager now and having JDM and Nunez around is probably a positive too (as much as I hate to play the Latin clubhouse card - I think it applies in Hanley’s case). Put it all together is points to a motivated and more comfortable Hanley which is a productive one.
Look at what a focused Hanley did in the post season last year. Sorry I know small sample size but he was a different hitter and only guy on the team who could mash good pitching. Hanley is not only not redundant, he’s key to this teams chances of winning a World Series.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2018 8:39:53 GMT -5
He had shoulder surgery during the offseason. He says he’s feeling great. He’s been taking grounders and throwing without pain for weeks, something he wasn’t about to do at the beginning of the season last year. That doesn’t mean he’s going to hit, but those aren’t reasons to be optimistic? That's good news, I hadn't seen where he had surgery. Then yes, there's room for optimism. And he's also on the TB12 program and has lost 15 pounds.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 21, 2018 9:23:37 GMT -5
With JDM's signing, the pressure is off of Hanley as far as being THAT guy in the middle of the lineup that pitchers have to fear.
I think between that and that he's been taking excellent care of himself, I think Hanley has a legit shot at being what he was in 2016 to the point where it's fine if his option vests.
And as rjp313jr pointed out, the last couple of seasons there's been nobody else I'd rather see at the plate in the post-season than Hanley.
What makes me laugh is that there are a lot of people who can't stand Hanley (think he's still a dog or think he's going to explode about his 497 plate appearances when both concerns, at least to me, look utterly ridiculous), who can't wrap their heads around the concept that Hanley could very well be the starting 1b, and it could be a very good thing. They have to have him on the short end of a platoon with Moreland or designated for assignment.
I think he'll be a very happy, motivated Hanley this year, and I think at this point, the guy really does want to win, however it happens, and I think Hanley, in his own heart, has always been a Red Sox, so yeah, I'm rooting for him.
It's hard to depend on him because he does get hurt a lot, but a healthy Hanley is a very productive one, and Cora sees that, but like I said, it's always good to have backup plans when it comes to Hanley, and Dombrowski saw to that, so I think this whole thing can work out very well this season. I think everybody is going about things in the right way.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 21, 2018 12:08:54 GMT -5
The Rays were the dumb ones. I cannot imagine that no team would offer more than that and take a chance on a guy that could easily bounce back. I would not use that trade as the basis for what the Red Sox could get for a bunch of players they don't need. Every team knows that the Red Sox have a roster crunch and aren't going to give up anything for any of the ones who are on the fringe of making the team. If you look down a little further on page 1 you'll see that Champs and I continued our discussion on this where I say I get his point on the roster crunch knocking down the value of Marrero and Holt.But I would at least like to get something back like a lottery ticket type of player. And after thinking about this if a better option doesn't come along why don't the Sox use the DL on Marrero and Holt? You can't put guys on the DL when they're not hurt. They let this slide all the time in the minors, but in MLB you at least have to have some relatively colorable claim that the guy is hurt. If they were doing it just to stash a player, MLB would jump all over them.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 21, 2018 12:31:32 GMT -5
I don't understand why the Red Sox traded Brentz for money rather than for international bonus money. The Pirates still had approx $2.2 million available at the end of November 2017. You would think they would have sought more international bonus money rather than straight cash.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 21, 2018 12:33:52 GMT -5
If you look down a little further on page 1 you'll see that Champs and I continued our discussion on this where I say I get his point on the roster crunch knocking down the value of Marrero and Holt.But I would at least like to get something back like a lottery ticket type of player. And after thinking about this if a better option doesn't come along why don't the Sox use the DL on Marrero and Holt? You can't put guys on the DL when they're not hurt. They let this slide all the time in the minors, but in MLB you at least have to have some relatively colorable claim that the guy is hurt. If they were doing it just to stash a player, MLB would jump all over them. Teams definitely do it with Rule 5 picks. And last year the Red Sox did it with Josh Rutledge and they kept him there on and off during season with different rehab stints with Portland or Pawtucket. My point is either team will ask a player if they want to remain with a team or go somewhere else to get a chance that playing time with another team.If player likes the team they may select to stay with the current team.
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