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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2019 11:14:36 GMT -5
I know he has good stuff but Melancon has already failed twice here. I mean REALLY failed. Would fit right in with this crew. He was only with them once for the worst possible 2012 season and his peripherals were better than his career numbers. Dumping him so quickly was really stupid.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2019 11:17:42 GMT -5
Melancon was bad during the Bobby Valentine season so I'm totally willing to write that off as a fluke.
And he really was fine after getting called back up: 43 innings, 40 K, 10 BB, 3 HR, .217/.274/.323 against him after the recall. It was just that first coupe weeks where he was wildly off the rails. Valentine just never put him back into high leverage situations.
Imagine if everyone who sucked in 2012 was written off as not being able to play in Boston.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jul 19, 2019 11:45:02 GMT -5
why would we want Abreu? he's barely hit better than Chavis this year, and Moreland should be back soon.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2019 12:03:02 GMT -5
why would we want Abreu? he's barely hit better than Chavis this year, and Moreland should be back soon. I wouldn't advocate it, but Chavis hasn't been great since his hot start. In his last 201 PA, he has a 75 wRC+ and striking out 37.8%. Chavis is fine to platoon with Moreland.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 19, 2019 12:08:05 GMT -5
why would we want Abreu? he's barely hit better than Chavis this year, and Moreland should be back soon. Rest of season projections per THE BAT: Abreu: .291/.345/.532 Moreland: .256/.334/.495 Chavis: .241/.306/.457 Abrue and Moreland are a natural platoon, JDM might need some extra days off or a IL stint at some point, and Chavis is hitting .251/.319/.436 with a sweet 34.4% strikeout rate since the start of May. He isn't exactly the thing this team needs, but Abreu is likely to come fairly cheap and does make the team better at a time when the value of each win is hyper-inflated. I'm guessing I'd be pretty happy with the deal if it went down.
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Post by borisman on Jul 19, 2019 12:11:03 GMT -5
I know he has good stuff but Melancon has already failed twice here. I mean REALLY failed. Would fit right in with this crew. He was only with them once for the worst possible 2012 season and his peripherals were better than his career numbers. Dumping him so quickly was really stupid. WHAAAATTT! Who am confusing him with then? I would have lost my stack on him doing two tours in Boston.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 19, 2019 12:22:26 GMT -5
why would we want Abreu? he's barely hit better than Chavis this year, and Moreland should be back soon. Rest of season projections per THE BAT: Abreu: .291/.345/.532 Moreland: .256/.334/.495 Chavis: .241/.306/.457 Abrue and Moreland are a natural platoon, JDM might need some extra days off or a IL stint at some point, and Chavis is hitting .251/.319/.436 with a sweet 34.4% strikeout rate since the start of May. He isn't exactly the thing this team needs, but Abreu is likely to come fairly cheap and does make the team better at a time when the value of each win is hyper-inflated. I'm guessing I'd be pretty happy with the deal if it went down. See I don't see him coming "fairly cheap" I think Chicago is going to want one of our top tens, plus a add on. DD has had really bad luck with "add ons" .
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2019 13:49:29 GMT -5
How could the Red Sox afford Abreu (or some of these other relievers) if they're trying to stay under the highest luxury tax limit? Would it be a platoon or would Abreu have regular ABs with Moreland coming off the bench?
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Post by carmenfanzone on Jul 19, 2019 15:31:59 GMT -5
why would we want Abreu? he's barely hit better than Chavis this year, and Moreland should be back soon. Rest of season projections per THE BAT: Abreu: .291/.345/.532 Moreland: .256/.334/.495 Chavis: .241/.306/.457 Abrue and Moreland are a natural platoon, JDM might need some extra days off or a IL stint at some point, and Chavis is hitting .251/.319/.436 with a sweet 34.4% strikeout rate since the start of May. He isn't exactly the thing this team needs, but Abreu is likely to come fairly cheap and does make the team better at a time when the value of each win is hyper-inflated. I'm guessing I'd be pretty happy with the deal if it went down. The last I checked the Red Sox were first in the league in batting average, OBP, and, most important, runs scored. They are no better than 7th in ERA ( and more than a half a run per game behind the 6th place team) and WHIP. So to improve the team we are going to go out and get .... another bat? Wouldn't there be a better chance of improving by getting another pitcher? I will be shocked if they trade for Abreu. In fact, I think Cashner was their only significant addition, particularly if they are still under the cap.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2019 15:37:28 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what rank they are in categories. Runs per game isn't ordinal - you can be the best hitting team and then fill a hole and be the best by even more. Having the best offense in the league by .8 runs is better than having the best by .5. So if it's cheaper or easier to improve the team by helping the offense get better-er then they should do it.
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Post by kingstephanos on Jul 19, 2019 16:28:11 GMT -5
Also, acquiring Abreu could protect the Sox against the possibility of loosing JD Martinez to his opt out clause after the season.
If traded, Abreu in theory, could appreciate being on a winning ball club that has numerous veteran players (some of which also happen to be Latino). His age (approximately the same as JD) and defensive acumen could dappen his cost in free agency.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2019 16:41:09 GMT -5
Also, acquiring Abreu could protect the Sox against the possibility of loosing JD Martinez to his opt out clause after the season. If traded, Abreu in theory, could appreciate being on a winning ball club that has numerous veteran players (some of which also happen to be Latino). His age (approximately the same as JD) and defensive acumen could dappen his cost in free agency. Abreu is a free agent at the end of the season. I'd rather have Nick Castellanos, if they're replacing JDM with someone else.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 19, 2019 18:44:05 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jul 19, 2019 19:06:33 GMT -5
I would love madbum, hard pass on Stroman
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Post by ortiz34 on Jul 19, 2019 19:12:32 GMT -5
Are we just trying to block the Yankees?
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 19, 2019 20:31:38 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what rank they are in categories. Runs per game isn't ordinal - you can be the best hitting team and then fill a hole and be the best by even more. Having the best offense in the league by .8 runs is better than having the best by .5. So if it's cheaper or easier to improve the team by helping the offense get better-er then they should do it. Look no further than the Yankees with Encarnacion...et al.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 19, 2019 20:56:43 GMT -5
Are we just trying to block the Yankees? There's no waiver deadline anymore.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 19, 2019 22:27:27 GMT -5
As he drifts towards the Mendoza line maybe we'd be selling high on Dalbec.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 19, 2019 22:29:45 GMT -5
How could the Red Sox afford Abreu (or some of these other relievers) if they're trying to stay under the highest luxury tax limit? Would it be a platoon or would Abreu have regular ABs with Moreland coming off the bench? My guess is Abreu would have the White Sox covering a substantial portion of his salary (and/or taking a dead deal like Nunez or Pearce in return for roster purposes) and thus an increased prospect cost. I think Abreu helps Boston significantly, given the RH FB power in a great park for it, and the fact that he’s starting-caliber but even better platooning with Moreland. I’d move Chavis back to 2b to split time with Hernandez/Holt and do some DH rotation because JDM isn’t healthy. Now, “significantly” might be only 0.5-1 WAR, but as FTHW noted, they’re in the zone of highly inflated win value. One or two wins could very easily be the season. And statistically, improving an offensive hole has a slight synergy, because it improves sequencing odds with more baserunners, so adding offense to offense is actually counterintuitively a boon, not a waste. If they want to bludgeon their opponents and hope on the SP (Sale and Porc especially) getting right, I think that’s a viable approach with some stability from Cashner for the 5.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2019 22:46:05 GMT -5
How could the Red Sox afford Abreu (or some of these other relievers) if they're trying to stay under the highest luxury tax limit? Would it be a platoon or would Abreu have regular ABs with Moreland coming off the bench? My guess is Abreu would have the White Sox covering a substantial portion of his salary (and/or taking a dead deal like Nunez or Pearce in return for roster purposes) and thus an increased prospect cost. I think Abreu helps Boston significantly, given the RH FB power in a great park for it, and the fact that he’s starting-caliber but even better platooning with Moreland. I’d move Chavis back to 2b to split time with Hernandez/Holt and do some DH rotation because JDM isn’t healthy. Now, “significantly” might be only 0.5-1 WAR, but as FTHW noted, they’re in the zone of highly inflated win value. One or two wins could very easily be the season. And statistically, improving an offensive hole has a slight synergy, because it improves sequencing odds with more baserunners, so adding offense to offense is actually counterintuitively a boon, not a waste. If they want to bludgeon their opponents and hope on the SP (Sale and Porc especially) getting right, I think that’s a viable approach with some stability from Cashner for the 5. I've always been a big fan of Abreu. Honestly, I'd prefer to see him in the lineup everyday, even over Mitch Moreland, but then again, I don't really know his platoon splits - haven't had the time to look them up. I only know Abreu as an every day player you plug into the middle of the order. Why would the ChiSox be hot to trot to get rid of him if they have to pay for him? I mean, for the rental, what caliber of prospect would the Sox have to give up? I'd be fine with giving up Ockimey, but not much more than that. He's a useful player against righties but he does have his drawbacks (lack of a hit tool despite the walks/power and defensive issues).
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Post by telson13 on Jul 20, 2019 1:31:40 GMT -5
My guess is Abreu would have the White Sox covering a substantial portion of his salary (and/or taking a dead deal like Nunez or Pearce in return for roster purposes) and thus an increased prospect cost. I think Abreu helps Boston significantly, given the RH FB power in a great park for it, and the fact that he’s starting-caliber but even better platooning with Moreland. I’d move Chavis back to 2b to split time with Hernandez/Holt and do some DH rotation because JDM isn’t healthy. Now, “significantly” might be only 0.5-1 WAR, but as FTHW noted, they’re in the zone of highly inflated win value. One or two wins could very easily be the season. And statistically, improving an offensive hole has a slight synergy, because it improves sequencing odds with more baserunners, so adding offense to offense is actually counterintuitively a boon, not a waste. If they want to bludgeon their opponents and hope on the SP (Sale and Porc especially) getting right, I think that’s a viable approach with some stability from Cashner for the 5. I've always been a big fan of Abreu. Honestly, I'd prefer to see him in the lineup everyday, even over Mitch Moreland, but then again, I don't really know his platoon splits - haven't had the time to look them up. I only know Abreu as an every day player you plug into the middle of the order. Why would the ChiSox be hot to trot to get rid of him if they have to pay for him? I mean, for the rental, what caliber of prospect would the Sox have to give up? I'd be fine with giving up Ockimey, but not much more than that. He's a useful player against righties but he does have his drawbacks (lack of a hit tool despite the walks/power and defensive issues). I don’t think they’re super eager to, but he has limited value to them. He makes $16M. He’s a UFA coming up. He’s 32. It’s highly unlikely they want to extend him, because 1b/DH power>hit guys don’t age well (although they might if the money’s right/his market doesn’t materialize). His prorated salary would be about $6M. So if they cover enough to help Boston stay under the cap ($4-5M), they get additional value in terms of prospect #/quality. His contract is essentially underwater value-wise ($16M but projected for about 1.3 fWAR, or $10-11M based on $8M per WAR). They’re not contending, not even close, although they may be soon, as they have a good young core. It makes sense for them to sell. It’s obviously, as s deadline deal, not going to work on a straight excess value calculus (and again, his contract is underwater anyway). He’d be essentially a contract dump (makes sense fiscally, but not fan-relations-wise). It frees up a little money and allows them to acquire players more suited for their projected contention timeframe. Ockimey might actually make some sense to them, as he’s probably a year or two away. Look at the Tigers-Dbacks trade for JDM. He was a clearly superior hitter on the cusp of FA, and returned three prospects, the best being Dawel Lugo, a 22-y/o SS who was top-5 in a very weak Diamondbacks system, basically a 40-45 FV guy. And Martinez was making only $6+M that year, making him a more broadly attractive target. Now, that trade was a steal, but basically it was a 40-45 and a couple fliers/35 FV guys. Abreu, based on that, probably nets them a 40+ and a 35+ (in the high single digits and mid-high teens in the Sox system). Ockimey would fit in there as a 35+/40: future somewhat intriguing platoon. It’s not a LOT, but there’s no way Abreu gets a QO, so at least it’s *something*. If Chicago kicks in the $5M, that’s another player, 35+-40 FV. It’s worth it for them.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 20, 2019 15:45:34 GMT -5
As he drifts towards the Mendoza line maybe we'd be selling high on Dalbec. The guy with a 149 wRC+ and .381 OBP? C'mon man, batting average died in the 80s.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 21, 2019 21:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 21, 2019 22:06:21 GMT -5
I will be pissed if we trade top prospects.
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 21, 2019 23:07:12 GMT -5
Jon Paul Morosi of MLB.com reports that the Red Sox are among the teams to evaluate Daniel Hudson.
Hudson has posted a 0.93 ERA over his last 16 relief appearances to pique the interest of contending clubs. The cost to acquire the 32-year-old surely wouldn't be too much.
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