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Post by grandsalami on Aug 11, 2019 12:56:19 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 11, 2019 12:57:46 GMT -5
At some point you have to wonder what's going on when you get a guy pitching well on a trash team...we get him and he becomes the trash Cashner wasn't pitching THAT well before the trade - certainly not so well, or for so long, that it would've been more predictive than his years of mediocrity. Wasn't a bad risk for what they gave up, and it's not like he's eating innings that anyone was excited to give to someone else. But I don't get how anyone is particularly surprised by "they got Andrew Cashner and it didn't work." Cashner had three career 1.0+ bWAR seasons heading into 2019.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 11, 2019 12:59:50 GMT -5
At some point you have to wonder what's going on when you get a guy pitching well on a trash team...we get him and he becomes the trash Cashner wasn't pitching THAT well before the trade - certainly not so well, or for so long, that it would've been more predictive than his years of mediocrity. Wasn't a bad risk for what they gave up, and it's not like he's eating innings that anyone was excited to give to someone else. But I don't get how anyone is particularly surprised by "they got Andrew Cashner and it didn't work." Cashner had three career 1.0+ bWAR seasons heading into 2019. Yes...and he does fit right in with our starters in general this year.
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Post by danredhawk on Aug 11, 2019 13:07:32 GMT -5
Yeah, Cashner has given you absolutely nothing. You needed a starter, and you got the absolute worst option. This is on the scouting department and on Dombrowski for this move. So, now you’re saying it was a mistake to make a move for a marginal upgrade (at best) that presented a real possibility of lack of impact or ineffectiveness just for the sake of making a move?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 13:08:37 GMT -5
Yeah, Cashner has given you absolutely nothing. You needed a starter, and you got the absolute worst option. This is on the scouting department and on Dombrowski for this move. So, now you’re saying it was a mistake to make a move for a marginal upgrade (at best) that presented a real possibility of lack of impact or ineffectiveness just for the sake of making a move? So you're saying Dombrowski needs to do a better job finding better marginal moves? Wait you're not saying anything, but depicting other people like you have been for the past 3 weeks.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 11, 2019 13:10:46 GMT -5
Owings = bum
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Aug 11, 2019 13:13:31 GMT -5
Having Chris Owings, literal definition of a below replacement player, bat leadoff, is a microcosm both of this mediocre season and DD's fringe roster management failures.
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Post by ivor on Aug 11, 2019 13:35:54 GMT -5
well at least Taylor is pitching great
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2019 13:36:38 GMT -5
Let’s just tank. At least we will get something out of it. Can they help tanking? Is it tanking if you just stink?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 11, 2019 13:37:05 GMT -5
Taylor is doing his part well. Time for the sleepy bats to wake up!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 13:37:16 GMT -5
So, now you’re saying it was a mistake to make a move for a marginal upgrade (at best) that presented a real possibility of lack of impact or ineffectiveness just for the sake of making a move? So you're saying Dombrowski needs to do a better job finding better marginal moves? Wait you're not saying anything, but depicting other people like you have been for the past 3 weeks. Just to add to this, if the Sox weren't historically bad the past three weeks, good marginal moves could have made a impact in a wild card race. Instead, Price pitched hurt. Sale has had a career worst year. Porcello has had the worst year I could have ever seen in a full year for a Red Sox starting pitcher. Eduardo has been the best pitcher in the rotation. Which says, A LOT. Marginal moves do make a difference. Bobby Kielty hit the last important homerun in the 2007 playoffs. Scott Williamson was the Red Sox closer by the end of 2003. Ohh and best of all, Dave Roberts once stole a important base that changed the course of Red Sox history. Yeah, marginal moves aren't impactful though, especially in important games.
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Post by beavertontim on Aug 11, 2019 13:43:00 GMT -5
Blast away, because I know many of you will, but Daniel McGrath is pitching very well in Portland, is a free agent at the end of the season, and cannot be worse than Cashner at this point. Why not DFA Cashner and see what this guy can do at this level? This is not the Sox year. The team should be looking at what some of their guys can do at higher levels.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 11, 2019 13:43:13 GMT -5
CVaz ...BOOM! That's what I'm talking about...
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 11, 2019 13:43:13 GMT -5
Dombrowski is twisting in the wind. Hopefully we can get a replacement like Antonetti or another GM who can re-build both the major league team and farm system.
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Post by danredhawk on Aug 11, 2019 13:56:31 GMT -5
Setting aside your slick attempt to pretend you were all in on this team’s ability to make a run (Mr Positivity!) prior to the trade deadline as the fiction it is, you just made DD’s point for not making an RP move at the deadline. The fault lies with the the stars - especially the starters - not doing their jobs at a good enough or consistent enough level. It doesn’t matter who you add or don’t on the perimeter of the roster if the meat of the club doesn’t deliver. That was the exact argument SO MANY were making against your insistence they had to add an arm no matter what and you dismissed it off-hand. Lol, now you’re using it to defend your own point as if the team has only just begun to let you down...?
Cashner was a kick at the can - an effort for the small improvement you constantly demand is the only objective way to watch the team. Often those moves don’t work out but if you honestly believed in that process (as opposed to simply wanting to be upset) you’d appreciate the risk rather than suddenly arguing against those types of moves.
Less than two weeks ago you ranted and raved about them not making ANY off-season signings or ANY trade deadline deals for relief because you just absolutely HAD to take as many kicks at the can as possible and now based solely on the result (re. Cashner) your entire thought process has changed and DD made a mistake by taking a kick at the can for starting pitching because it didn’t work out.
That’s why it was laughable to to watch you talk about Boston HAVING to make a move for a RP - because if it had turned out along the lines of a Sam Dyson, Shane Greene or Mark Melancon - the chances of you claiming they did the right thing (what you wanted) and it just didn’t work out would have been zero. No, you would have thrown a fit about DD and the scouts getting the wrong guy and wasting assets (which of course you foresaw entirely at the time and why you would have traded for a different arm with different prospects)...
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Post by danredhawk on Aug 11, 2019 14:00:57 GMT -5
Having Chris Owings, literal definition of a below replacement player, bat leadoff, is a microcosm both of this mediocre season and DD's fringe roster management failures. You may not like him even being in Pawtucket or called up - but it’s Alex Cora’s (not DDs) decision to play him ahead of Hernandez today and to hit him in Mookie’s direct spot in the order as opposed to at the bottom... You don’t like DD, you’re one of the ones who wants DD out after three AL East titles and a WS - so be it, but tout a reason that actually reflects on him... Are we really going to pretend that the representation of this season is how the GM failed to find a better player for the seventh slot on the 2B depth chart, after Pedroia, Chavis, Nunez, Holt, Hernandez and Lin. What a lack of foresight...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 14:07:23 GMT -5
Setting aside your slick attempt to pretend you were all in on this team’s ability to make a run (Mr Positivity!) prior to the trade deadline as the fiction it is, you just made DD’s point for not making an RP move at the deadline. The fault lies with the the stars - especially the starters - not doing their jobs at a good enough or consistent enough level. It doesn’t matter who you add or don’t on the perimeter of the roster if the meat of the club doesn’t deliver. That was the exact argument SO MANY were making against your insistence they had to add an arm no matter what and you dismissed it off-hand. Lol, now you’re using it to defend your own point as if the team has only just begun to let you down...? So let's just focus on this LOL. Yeah, Dave Dombrowski could predict one of the biggest collapses ever. The point is, if the Sox starters did their job and were competitive, pieces added on top of it could have made a difference. In the end, Dave Dombrowski was right for all the wrong reasons. I doubt it was even a Dombrowski call. It sounds like a Henry call with how they stopped wanting to spend money. So you can point your finger all you want, it doesn't make your point any better.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 14:09:35 GMT -5
That’s why it was laughable to to watch you talk about Boston HAVING to make a move for a RP - because if it had turned out along the lines of a Sam Dyson, Shane Greene or Mark Melancon - the chances of you claiming they did the right thing (what you wanted) and it just didn’t work out would have been zero. No, you would have thrown a fit about DD and the scouts getting the wrong guy and wasting assets (which of course you foresaw entirely at the time and why you would have traded for a different arm with different prospects)... Lol, I would threw a fit. That's a joke. Nope, I would have posted that the move didn't work and moved on with my life, just like I just did with Cashner. I would have reviewed and said that the Sox in fact, did SOMETHING to make the beleaguered bullpen better. I'm glad you have the foresight to know what happens in the future of Dyson or Greene in a Sox uniform though. I bet you would have predicted that Dave Roberts got tagged out at second base in 2004 because marginal moves don't matter in winning seasons. Talk about a hypocrite here. Talking about others predicting foresight while predicting foresight.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2019 14:12:56 GMT -5
Dombrowski is twisting in the wind. Hopefully we can get a replacement like Antonetti or another GM who can re-build both the major league team and farm system. These takes on DD are crazy. The guy came and won a WS. The team has a great core. He HAS started restocking the minors. Casas? Duran? Guys like Ward? Dude isn’t perfect, so some trades haven't worked. And he has orders (ie stay under tax). But the idea that the response to a season when a collection of great players don’t play great is attack the GM? Madness.
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Post by patford on Aug 11, 2019 14:18:58 GMT -5
At some point you have to wonder what's going on when you get a guy pitching well on a trash team...we get him and he becomes the trash Bring on the robot balls and strikes.
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Post by soxfan511 on Aug 11, 2019 14:33:46 GMT -5
Wow Butteys stuff is filthy. A 99 mph fastball with movement. Why the hell did we trade this guy?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 14:34:24 GMT -5
Wow Butteys stuff is filthy. A 99 mph fastball with movement. Why the hell did we trade this guy? To win a world series.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 11, 2019 14:37:25 GMT -5
Dombrowski is twisting in the wind. Hopefully we can get a replacement like Antonetti or another GM who can re-build both the major league team and farm system. These takes on DD are crazy. The guy came and won a WS. The team has a great core. He HAS started restocking the minors. Casas? Duran? Guys like Ward? Dude isn’t perfect, so some trades haven't worked. And he has orders (ie stay under tax). But the idea that the response to a season when a collection of great players don’t play great is attack the GM? Madness. There are many articles popping up about Dombrowski having a very tight circle of trust in the front office with the likes of Larussa and Wren which is concerning as the game is changing rapidly. For whatever reason, Dombrowski does not have a good track record with respect to developing the staff working under him which is telling about his management style. I respect that he helped the Red Sox win the 2018 World Series, however I don’t think that he is cut out to lead the Red Sox over the next 5 years.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 11, 2019 14:41:29 GMT -5
Wow Butteys stuff is filthy. A 99 mph fastball with movement. Why the hell did we trade this guy? To win a world series. Not that Kinsler helped, but I wouldn't change a thing. Ripple effect and such.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 14:42:17 GMT -5
Not that Kinsler helped, but I wouldn't change a thing. Ripple effect and such. Kinsler had key hits in both the Yankee and Astros playoffs last year.
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