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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 6:59:59 GMT -5
It still irks me about Dombrowski not being able to build a farm. A. He built a beautiful system that led to Miami's 2nd WS when he was out the door. B. In Detroit the fucking owner was dying and demanded he win at all cost. Why would he care if prospect x would be awesome 10 years from now when he had only a few years of life left? He wanted to see a ring. Sadly, he didn't, but came very close a few times. C. The Red Sox gave him the same edict and this time, he delivered. You can't tell someone to win at all costs and then wonder why the farm is bad. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. He has helped pick the farm back up. The farm is better this year. Most of his deals were wins anyways. Does anyone miss Espinosa (I have my problem with that deal, but it's still a win)? Does anyone miss Margot? Does anyone miss Basabe? Does anyone miss Dubon? Does anyone really miss Moncada (.815 OPS in 2nd half) or Kopech? He seemed to weed out the system correctly because it looks like the Red Sox might have had a farm full of over evaluated talent that is simply mediocre to bad. He hasn't been given the chance TO build a farm. I agree with most of this, I will say though I'm still bitter over the Anderson Espinoza trade. To me it's the equivalent of the Padres last year saying give me your #4 SP and here's Mackenzie Gore. Just because he blew his elbow out twice doesn't justify the value. He's was a universal top 25 prospect with #2 starter upside or more. To be fair, I also didn't care for the Kimbrell trade and was pro Margot in the Margot-Benny debate. And he still has seen a pitch he didn't like. But outside of Espi there wasn't anything too egregious IMO. And he certainty won more than he lost. The thing with Anderson is, he might still become something, but the organization could have had information on him or have seen him enough to realize he was a major injury risk waiting to happen. He has a very small frame. I agree the return value wasn't what I had hoped for either. Still, something is always better than nothing. We can say that he got less than bake l value for him, but until Espinosa does something in the majors, it's a win for the Sox.
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Post by dmaineah on Sept 9, 2019 7:03:11 GMT -5
Dombrowski out
Great News
Dombrowski is not the person to construct the team for the long term. He did his job, signed Price, traded for Kimbrel & Sale & signed JD. Won the World Series.
Then he extended Sale. I think Ownership realized he was headed down the wrong path. This is the right move. I applaud Ownerships bold & direct decision.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 9, 2019 7:04:07 GMT -5
I’ve never been a Dombrowski fan, so I’m not sad to see him go, but there really isn’t a good reason to fire him (unless more gets reported).
It’s remarkable how an organization that has had this much success since ‘04 continues to have this much turnover at GM/manager. The only constant in all this is the ownership group.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 9, 2019 7:11:01 GMT -5
I think the seeds for DDo being fired were back in June when John Henry in a rare interview said, "My take is that maybe it isn’t the best thing in the world to bring back the same team in its entirety every time. You don’t want to break a team down. But maybe a few changes wouldn’t hurt. But the feeling is always different after you win, apparently."
Lack of creativity is what did DDo in. Want the best pitcher in the world? Pay a kings ransom for him (Price in $$, Sale in prospects then $$). Had a good team last year? Let's bring them all back. He at $25M to work with this offseason (not a pitance despite claims on this board) and he took the easy path.
I think it's ridiculous to say the team hasn't made strides in the last 2 years for the farm system. The recent drafts and international signings have a lot of promise. No one major DDo has traded off would even be in the farm system right now; they'd all be graduated or traded off later. He kept the right players, except MAYBE Moncada but Moncada over Devers is a win.
Overall, solid job but if there are communication issues and chain of command issues (I believe Shank on that part) then this is what happens. I'm also totally fine with giving a promising organization standout a chance in Romero. Overall I'm okay with it.
Is it confirmed Romero will be GM/head of baseball ops? I saw that in an initial report but not since.
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Post by 1toolplayer on Sept 9, 2019 7:17:31 GMT -5
Think the Red Sox caved to the media and fan outrage on this one.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 7:21:16 GMT -5
I think the seeds for DDo being fired were back in June when John Henry in a rare interview said, "My take is that maybe it isn’t the best thing in the world to bring back the same team in its entirety every time. You don’t want to break a team down. But maybe a few changes wouldn’t hurt. But the feeling is always different after you win, apparently." Lack of creativity is what did DDo in. Want the best pitcher in the world? Pay a kings ransom for him (Price in $$, Sale in prospects then $$). Had a good team last year? Let's bring them all back. He at $25M to work with this offseason (not a pitance despite claims on this board) and he took the easy path. I think it's ridiculous to say the team hasn't made strides in the last 2 years for the farm system. The recent drafts and international signings have a lot of promise. No one major DDo has traded off would even be in the farm system right now; they'd all be graduated or traded off later. He kept the right players, except MAYBE Moncada but Moncada over Devers is a win. Overall, solid job but if there are communication issues and chain of command issues (I believe Shank on that part) then this is what happens. I'm also totally fine with giving a promising organization standout a chance in Romero. Overall I'm okay with it. Is it confirmed Romero will be GM/head of baseball ops? I saw that in an initial report but not since. Assistant GMs Eddie Romero, Zack Scott, and Brian O’Halloran, and senior VP of Major League and minor league operations Raquel Ferreira will take over as the heads of the baseball ops department for the remainder of the season (MLB.com’s Ian Browne was among those to report the news of the assistant GMs in the interim roles, while Alex Speier of the Boston Globe reported Ferreira’s involvement.)www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/09/red-sox-part-ways-with-dave-dombrowski.html
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 9, 2019 7:37:43 GMT -5
Stunning for the timing, but not for the actual decision.
My guess is that others (Romero?) have a vision for the future of the organization that Henry & Co see as a better path forward than what DD says, and it came to a head in a recent meeting. It is not out of character since this is the time of year Cherington was let go and I'm sure that ties in with this being when they formulate an off-season plan. DD's voice, like Cherington's before him, wasn't on track with where they want to go and there was no sense in keeping him in charge. This is a key off-season coming up.
Wonder if Wren and LaRussa get axed today too?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 7:41:12 GMT -5
The timing likely intentionally coincided with Patriots news, otherwise after the Yankees leave would have made more sense if it had to be now.
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Post by slydog on Sept 9, 2019 7:44:01 GMT -5
Perhaps the timing is based on Romero being courted by other teams and the Sox had to act sooner than they wanted to.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 7:46:12 GMT -5
Perhaps the timing is based on Romero being courted by other teams and the Sox had to act sooner than they wanted to. Not during the season. Add: Is this the highest post, even if temporary, for a female ?
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Post by caseytins on Sept 9, 2019 7:46:43 GMT -5
I am very pleased to see DD go.
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,780
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Post by mobaz on Sept 9, 2019 7:47:37 GMT -5
I think the seeds for DDo being fired were back in June when John Henry in a rare interview said, "My take is that maybe it isn’t the best thing in the world to bring back the same team in its entirety every time. You don’t want to break a team down. But maybe a few changes wouldn’t hurt. But the feeling is always different after you win, apparently." Lack of creativity is what did DDo in. Want the best pitcher in the world? Pay a kings ransom for him (Price in $$, Sale in prospects then $$). Had a good team last year? Let's bring them all back. He at $25M to work with this offseason (not a pitance despite claims on this board) and he took the easy path. I think it's ridiculous to say the team hasn't made strides in the last 2 years for the farm system. The recent drafts and international signings have a lot of promise. No one major DDo has traded off would even be in the farm system right now; they'd all be graduated or traded off later. He kept the right players, except MAYBE Moncada but Moncada over Devers is a win. Overall, solid job but if there are communication issues and chain of command issues (I believe Shank on that part) then this is what happens. I'm also totally fine with giving a promising organization standout a chance in Romero. Overall I'm okay with it. Is it confirmed Romero will be GM/head of baseball ops? I saw that in an initial report but not since. Assistant GMs Eddie Romero, Zack Scott, and Brian O’Halloran, and senior VP of Major League and minor league operations Raquel Ferreira will take over as the heads of the baseball ops department for the remainder of the season (MLB.com’s Ian Browne was among those to report the news of the assistant GMs in the interim roles, while Alex Speier of the Boston Globe reported Ferreira’s involvement.)www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/09/red-sox-part-ways-with-dave-dombrowski.htmlI misread Passan's report last night and thought they were naming Romero permanent GM/Head of BB Ops.
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 9, 2019 7:48:44 GMT -5
Perhaps the timing is based on Romero being courted by other teams and the Sox had to act sooner than they wanted to. Not during the season. But the Sox do have the agreement from the guy with the Mets in place in-season, correct? EDIT: Chris Baccera
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Post by jdb on Sept 9, 2019 7:55:11 GMT -5
So is this Romero’s gig now, or is it a three headed GM situation until the end of the season then open up a search?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 7:55:46 GMT -5
But the Sox do have the agreement from the guy with the Mets in place in-season, correct? EDIT: Chris Baccera Yes but it would require the Sox permission.
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Post by soxcentral on Sept 9, 2019 7:57:43 GMT -5
Interesting that looking back at older articles they all show Cherington having 'stepped down', but every article re: Dombrowski says fired. So almost certainly this is about more than a change in direction again.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 9, 2019 7:59:22 GMT -5
I wonder if there will be any blowback on Bannister. What role did he play in how pitchers were prepared in the offseason/spring training, and how much did it contribute to the struggles of Sale/Price/Procello/Eovaldi? Or is it just a product of championship overwork?
E-Rod obviously made great strides this year. Some of the bullpen pieces have played at/beyond their perceived potential.
It's sad to see a team that was having so much fun last year crash back this season; feels like 2005 really. Love Devers/X being the backbone of the next great team, and would love JDM and Betts to be here too.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 9, 2019 8:28:16 GMT -5
We were on course to become the Detroit Tigers at least we won a World Series and I’m grateful for that but it’s time build the team the right way again.
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Post by 1toolplayer on Sept 9, 2019 8:41:58 GMT -5
We were on course to become the Detroit Tigers at least we won a World Series and I’m grateful for that but it’s time build the team the right way again. Build the right way? They have a young, super-star studded lineup. I think they've built it just fine. Volatile SP is always going to be a factor for any team.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 9, 2019 8:44:30 GMT -5
Get Theo back.
Or steal as much from Houston as possible.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Sept 9, 2019 8:48:02 GMT -5
Get Theo back. Or steal as much from Houston as possible. Orioles already took what you'd want
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 9, 2019 8:48:46 GMT -5
I’m betting it’s either bloom or andrew friedman (andrew friedman contract is up after this year)
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Post by Guidas on Sept 9, 2019 8:54:14 GMT -5
[quote author
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This was my point all off season, and it’s been my experience in life - if you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse. But we don’t know what the marching orders were from John Henry, either.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 9, 2019 8:54:44 GMT -5
On timing, it's probably a situation where they want to start the search for his replacement now so he's in place for the start of the offseason. That's really the important time period here. Firing him in October and installing someone in November after a full search could've had devastating repercussions on putting them behind the 8 ball on retooling for 2020 and setting a long-term plan in place.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 9, 2019 9:00:34 GMT -5
I’m betting it’s either bloom or andrew friedman (andrew friedman contract is up after this year) Geez, Inwas all over getting Friedman when he wriggled free from Tampa. Would like that very much.
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