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2019 League Championship Series Gameday Thread
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Post by bosox81 on Oct 20, 2019 8:53:49 GMT -5
The counter-argument for spending a ton of money on "great relievers". Poetic justice: The high character homegrown player walks off against the expensive low life mercenary.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 20, 2019 9:17:31 GMT -5
I love watching the veins pop out on Gardner's neck when he's complaining about a strike call.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 20, 2019 9:42:08 GMT -5
The pitching matchups for this coming WS are just incredible. Cole-Scherzer, Verlander-Strasburg, and Corbin-Grienke? Wow.
I’m rooting for an epic game 7 win by the Nats.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 20, 2019 10:21:18 GMT -5
That series winning HR exemplifies modern baseball completely. A strong little guy totally dug in and reaching across the plate to pull a high OUTSIDE fastball to left center for the series winning home run. Somewhere in the great beyond, Sal Maglie is turning over in his grave. That was a slider. At the end of the game Correa was incredulous to parpahrase and asked Altuve "How did you do it? You sat on his slider?" Altuve said "yes." Correa went on in disbelief and told the reporter to paraprase "WHo would sit on a slider from a pitcher that throws over 100 mph fastballs?" Though MLB explained it-- said Altuve is so damn smart. He must've known Chapman didn't have his fastball command. What can you say about Altuve? The small dude is as big of player as you'll ever find. He almost had that big blast vs us last year. He's a likable maniac.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 20, 2019 10:21:44 GMT -5
Both teams are loaded with talent, but where the Astros regularly compete in the playoffs these days, this is the first time the Nationals have been able to push past the first round. Good for them. Should be a great series. I'm happy for all the first-timers who get to chase the ring.
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Post by p23w on Oct 20, 2019 10:32:30 GMT -5
Thank God the ALCS is over. Two teams, I don't much care for (one team whose fans are obnoxious, the other teams fans that are barely tolerable). Hype beyond belief. I'm gearing up for a new wave of hype (Soto, Strausberg et al ;vs. Bergman, Verlander and company). Should be fun to watch with the mute button at the ready. Really interesting matchups between veteran pitching and youthful hitting. Can't wait.
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Post by patford on Oct 20, 2019 10:33:04 GMT -5
For some of us Sox fans seeing the Yankees lose is a good consolation prize.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 20, 2019 10:42:43 GMT -5
For some of us Sox fans seeing the Yankees lose is a good consolation prize. Especially after ousting them last year. For all the luck they had (bad with injuries, terrific with fill-ins), I’m sure a lot of NY fans had that “this is our year” feeling. Of course, makes one wonder if they’ll finally break with their new MO and spend wildly in FA. Gotta think Cole is their #1 target, especiallysince they’d poach him from Houston.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 20, 2019 11:30:37 GMT -5
That series winning HR exemplifies modern baseball completely. A strong little guy totally dug in and reaching across the plate to pull a high OUTSIDE fastball to left center for the series winning home run. Somewhere in the great beyond, Sal Maglie is turning over in his grave. That was a slider. At the end of the game Correa was incredulous to parpahrase and asked Altuve "How did you do it? You sat on his slider?" Altuve said "yes." Correa went on in disbelief and told the reporter to paraprase "WHo would sit on a slider from a pitcher that throws over 100 mph fastballs?" Though MLB explained it-- said Altuve is so damn smart. He must've known Chapman didn't have his fastball command. What can you say about Altuve? The small dude is as big of player as you'll ever find. He almost had that big blast vs us last year. He's a likable maniac. Altuve actually admitted he was looking fastball on postgame. He said he was sitting on the fastball, "but I guess I was late, because I hit a slider."
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Post by incandenza on Oct 20, 2019 11:43:20 GMT -5
For some of us Sox fans seeing the Yankees lose is a good consolation prize. I think we all need to pause and take a moment to consider what an enormous victory this was for the Red Sox. We had a 108-win season last year, the most dominant season in Red Sox history. Magical. And of course it involved slaying the Yankees along the way. The Yankees, meanwhile, came right back in 2019 with the weirdest, most improbable, near-magical season of their own. The ridiculous rash of injuries, and then the even more ridiculous run of overperforming nobodies... it was completely insane. If they had parlayed this into a championship, they could have laid claim to having had as remarkable and great a season as the Sox did in 2018. It would have suuuuucked. But it didn't happen. (And who knows but that it might have, by the way, if Cashman had added a starter at the trade deadline; that could've come in handy in game 6.) And they've been locked out of the World Series for a full decade now. And we can all rest easy for at least the next 5 months. Personal bonus for me, too, as the Astros are my #2 team.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 20, 2019 13:07:02 GMT -5
For some of us Sox fans seeing the Yankees lose is a good consolation prize. Especially after ousting them last year. For all the luck they had (bad with injuries, terrific with fill-ins), I’m sure a lot of NY fans had that “this is our year” feeling. Of course, makes one wonder if they’ll finally break with their new MO and spend wildly in FA. Gotta think Cole is their #1 target, especiallysince they’d poach him from Houston. I have no beef with Houston. I'm rooting for the Nats/Expos because they're first timers, but the Astros winning would be fine with me. They were even kind enough in their dominance to win 1 less game than the 2018 Red Sox so if the Astros win, they'll wind up with 118 wins. The truth is that they actually had the same record as their pythag projection so they're truly as great as they've played, where as the 2018 Red Sox overshot their projection by about 5 or 6 games. I mean the Astros are among the top teams in a 3 year stretch since the Yankee dynasty of the 90s. If you get down to it, should Houston win the Series, that would give them 7 post-season series wins out of 8 post-season series with the only blemish coming against our 2018 Red Sox, a series where Houston wasn't really whole (Altuve and Correa were shells of themselves) and the Red Sox, after Game 1, could do no wrong. As it turned out 2018 was simply meant to be for the Red Sox. And I am totally thankful to Houston for preventing any Yankee championships. This Astros team eliminated the Yankees in the Wild Card game in - was it 2016, I believe? The Astros won the big Game 7 in 2017 against the Yankees and now this year they sent the Yankees home with a devastating loss. These Houston Astros have been true Yankee killers! And if they kill the Yankees, I can't help but like them, especially when the Red Sox were able to beat them to win in 2018 - the 2017 loss to them doesn't bother me. Can't be mad at a franchise trying to win their first world series.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Oct 20, 2019 15:57:48 GMT -5
If the Nats beat the Astros, the happy narrative of victorious Cinderella teams continues this century: Sox, Gigantes, Cubs, Astros, Nats. Did I miss anyone? The Dogers could be next. Their historic rivals the NYFY, despite a thus far unfulfilled 21st century (2001-2019) can’t be a loveable Cinderalla team for about 50 more years of struggle. Only a few of us would still be around to understand its significance though, and that would be just fine.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 20, 2019 16:04:13 GMT -5
If the Nats beat the Astros, the happy narrative of victorious Cinderella teams continues this century: Sox, Gigantes, Cubs, Astros, Nats. Did I miss anyone? The Dogers could be next. Their historic rivals the NYFY, despite a thus far unfulfilled 21st century (2001-2019) can’t be a Cinderalla team for about 50 more years of struggle. Only a few of us would still be around to understand its significance though, and that would be just fine. The other Sox, too. And would the Royals count? The Mariners are now the only team that's never been to the World Series.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 20, 2019 16:37:02 GMT -5
If the Nats beat the Astros, the happy narrative of victorious Cinderella teams continues this century: Sox, Gigantes, Cubs, Astros, Nats. Did I miss anyone? The Dogers could be next. Their historic rivals the NYFY, despite a thus far unfulfilled 21st century (2001-2019) can’t be a Cinderalla team for about 50 more years of struggle. Only a few of us would still be around to understand its significance though, and that would be just fine. The other Sox, too. And would the Royals count? The Mariners are now the only team that's never been to the World Series. Yet, they've won 116 games in a regular season. Very weird.
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Post by p23w on Oct 21, 2019 9:55:58 GMT -5
For some of us Sox fans seeing the Yankees lose is a good consolation prize. I think we all need to pause and take a moment to consider what an enormous victory this was for the Red Sox. We had a 108-win season last year, the most dominant season in Red Sox history. Magical. And of course it involved slaying the Yankees along the way. The Yankees, meanwhile, came right back in 2019 with the weirdest, most improbable, near-magical season of their own. The ridiculous rash of injuries, and then the even more ridiculous run of overperforming nobodies... it was completely insane. If they had parlayed this into a championship, they could have laid claim to having had as remarkable and great a season as the Sox did in 2018. It would have suuuuucked. But it didn't happen. (And who knows but that it might have, by the way, if Cashman had added a starter at the trade deadline; that could've come in handy in game 6.) And they've been locked out of the World Series for a full decade now. And we can all rest easy for at least the next 5 months.Personal bonus for me, too, as the Astros are my #2 team. Cashman whiffed twice. He could have had Cole 2 years ago, and he could have procured Corbin this year. Now both pitchers will participate in the Fall Classic and Cashman will be doing his couch potato impersonation. Going forward it will be doubtful that Cashman doesn't try to rectify his mistakes with respect to pitching in the future.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2019 10:37:39 GMT -5
I think we all need to pause and take a moment to consider what an enormous victory this was for the Red Sox. We had a 108-win season last year, the most dominant season in Red Sox history. Magical. And of course it involved slaying the Yankees along the way. The Yankees, meanwhile, came right back in 2019 with the weirdest, most improbable, near-magical season of their own. The ridiculous rash of injuries, and then the even more ridiculous run of overperforming nobodies... it was completely insane. If they had parlayed this into a championship, they could have laid claim to having had as remarkable and great a season as the Sox did in 2018. It would have suuuuucked. But it didn't happen. (And who knows but that it might have, by the way, if Cashman had added a starter at the trade deadline; that could've come in handy in game 6.) And they've been locked out of the World Series for a full decade now. And we can all rest easy for at least the next 5 months.Personal bonus for me, too, as the Astros are my #2 team. Cashman whiffed twice. He could have had Cole 2 years ago, and he could have procured Corbin this year. Now both pitchers will participate in the Fall Classic and Cashman will be doing his couch potato impersonation. Going forward it will be doubtful that Cashman doesn't try to rectify his mistakes with respect to pitching in the future. I would anticipate either Cole or Strasburg in pinstripes this offseason. Having a bullpen game occur during an elimination game screams that you're short of starting pitching. It's true that had German not done what he did, he would have been a starter they needed. Perhaps the Yankees could have won but karma has had its fingerprints all over this ALCS. Domestic abuse is repulsive and not only what he did personally was horrendous (I'd like to use much stronger words than repulsive and horrendous but my mediocre vocabulary is failing me), but as far as a far lesser impact goes, he left his employers in a lurch when they could have used his presence. Now the Yankees have to replace Sabathia's spot in the rotation, so it's quite obvious they're going to go after an ace to front the rotation with Severino, Tanaka, and Paxton.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 21, 2019 10:40:55 GMT -5
I don't know that the Yankees would've been any further along if they traded Torres for Cole, though. It's possible they'd have been able to build a package around Andujar, but it's been pretty well established that the Pirates turned down the Sheffield/Frazier package and like the Astros package better. And while that wasn't consensus at the time, I have to say I'd take Musgrove/Feliz right now, too, even though if Moran ended up a tweener.
I guess he could've been in on Corbin, but it's also not like the Nationals got him on the cheap - very, very possible they were simply outbid, and that Corbin (to his credit) made that contract worthwhile. It wasn't a universally-held opinion at the time that signing Corbin was a can't-miss move. For some dark humor, check out the offseason thread where people are showing genuine shock and amazement that Corbin got twice as much money as Eovaldi. And the Yankees did that knowing that signing Corbin would've made it unlikely they'd get a chance to make a run at Cole this year.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 21, 2019 12:24:49 GMT -5
I don't feel bad for the Yankees about German, because banking on all your starters being healthy and effective in October was a stupid gamble to make (especially with Severino coming back after missing almost the entire season). It could've just as easily been an injury to Paxton or a Severino setback. Last year Dombrowski added Eovaldi despite already having Sale, Price, Porcello, and Rodriguez, so when Sale struggled and had health issues they were in position to give Eovaldi a huge role and he thrived. Compare that to Cashman, who again passed on starting pitchers like Stroman this deadline, stating a guy like Stroman would be stuck in their postseason bullpen. Ironically, they got eliminated in a bullpen game because they didn't have a viable starting pitcher to throw when they absolutely needed a win.
Also, giving Happ 2/34m with a vesting option in the same offseason where Charlie Morton got 2/30 with a club option looks bad (lets not bring up the Eovaldi contract, please).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 21, 2019 12:31:46 GMT -5
Given the Yankees ability to spend and what they had long-term on the payroll for starters last off season it seems crazy to say you can't sign Corbin, because you want Cole. They have Tanaka for two more years at 22 and 23 million. Plus Happ who they signed over Corbin at 17 million. The true Yankees I grew up watching would have signed both and had a guy like Paxton and Tanaka as 4th starters.
They have had so many chances to add starters and really haven't. They could have traded for Stroman if they wanted a cost controlled guy.
I love watching the Yankees pinch pennies and not trade for guys year after year. The fact that some projections show the Astros might start spending as much as the Yankees is crazy.
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Post by p23w on Oct 21, 2019 14:19:46 GMT -5
I don't know that the Yankees would've been any further along if they traded Torres for Cole, though. It's possible they'd have been able to build a package around Andujar, but it's been pretty well established that the Pirates turned down the Sheffield/Frazier package and like the Astros package better. And while that wasn't consensus at the time, I have to say I'd take Musgrove/Feliz right now, too, even though if Moran ended up a tweener. I guess he could've been in on Corbin, but it's also not like the Nationals got him on the cheap - very, very possible they were simply outbid, and that Corbin (to his credit) made that contract worthwhile. It wasn't a universally-held opinion at the time that signing Corbin was a can't-miss move. For some dark humor, check out the offseason thread where people are showing genuine shock and amazement that Corbin got twice as much money as Eovaldi. And the Yankees did that knowing that signing Corbin would've made it unlikely they'd get a chance to make a run at Cole this year. If you realize your needs you make the deal. Cole has pitched 200+ (mostly effective) innings for 3 consecutive years. Corbin has pitched 200+ quality innings in his career three time (twice in the last two years.) Severino has pitched one quality 190IP year, period. Tanaka pitched his second most career IP in 2019, at 182 innings. Paxton has NEVER pitched more than 160 innings in any year. I don't care about the finances (or the trade deals). Cashman whiffed, plain and simple. Houston let Keuchel walk and took on Greinke. Rizzo splurged on Corbin despite having Sherzer, Straussberg and zip zilch for a bullpen. Seems to me Cashman decided that the best bullpen in history could overcome the shortage of quality innings from his starters. Think again. Stay with the Yankees Brian.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 21, 2019 14:40:52 GMT -5
1. The MLBTR projection on Corbin was $129M and the Nationals paid $140M. Unless you're going to do a whole talk radio "YOU CAN'T GET OUTBID" yelling session... sometimes you get outbid for the guy you want and you have to move on to option two. Corbin got a lot of money. 2. The Yankees won 103 games. Pretty hard to criticize the allocation of resources. 3. They still probably lose that series with Corbin.
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Post by p23w on Oct 21, 2019 15:47:51 GMT -5
1. The MLBTR projection on Corbin was $129M and the Nationals paid $140M. Unless you're going to do a whole talk radio "YOU CAN'T GET OUTBID" yelling session... sometimes you get outbid for the guy you want and you have to move on to option two. Corbin got a lot of money. 2. The Yankees won 103 games. Pretty hard to criticize the allocation of resources. 3. They still probably lose that series with Corbin. At the risk of repeating myself.... I don't care about the money (implying that the objective is to know your assets). The Yankees won 103 games and they're run differential projected 97 wins.... The differential was the result of incredible luck (good fortune?) with respect to their offensive production. The pitching (all things considered) was mediocre and certainly did not propel them to 103 wins or even represent a shrewd allocation of resources based on both the free agent signings and the pitching talent available via trades. With respect to Corbin. Speculation either way. With Corbin in the rotation the bullpen is less stressed out (Octavino?) In any case we will see how Corbin fares and is used by Martinez against the Astro's. Making SABERMETRIC excuses/rationalizations for Cashman is to ignore his results. Bullpens are nice. Going long into games (especially in the playoffs) is better. As an aside, sports talk radio is 95% buffoonery from what little of it I have heard.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 21, 2019 18:31:12 GMT -5
With respect to Corbin. Speculation either way. With Corbin in the rotation the bullpen is less stressed out (Octavino?) In any case we will see how Corbin fares and is used by Martinez against the Astro's. Making SABERMETRIC excuses/rationalizations for Cashman is to ignore his results. Bullpens are nice. Going long into games (especially in the playoffs) is better. "They would have won with Corbin" = speculation. "We can't say for sure if they would have won with Corbin" = statement of fact, not speculative. If people want to think that Cashman is actually a bad GM who's teams are somehow always fatally flawed despite winning a zillion games, and not just a real good GM who hasn't won in a while, well... I guess whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 21, 2019 20:25:12 GMT -5
Given the Yankees ability to spend and what they had long-term on the payroll for starters last off season it seems crazy to say you can't sign Corbin, because you want Cole. They have Tanaka for two more years at 22 and 23 million. Plus Happ who they signed over Corbin at 17 million. The true Yankees I grew up watching would have signed both and had a guy like Paxton and Tanaka as 4th starters. They have had so many chances to add starters and really haven't. They could have traded for Stroman if they wanted a cost controlled guy. I love watching the Yankees pinch pennies and not trade for guys year after year. The fact that some projections show the Astros might start spending as much as the Yankees is crazy. Just wait. Yankee's big rotation acquisition will be Zack Wheeler.
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Post by p23w on Oct 21, 2019 20:54:20 GMT -5
With respect to Corbin. Speculation either way. With Corbin in the rotation the bullpen is less stressed out (Octavino?) In any case we will see how Corbin fares and is used by Martinez against the Astro's. Making SABERMETRIC excuses/rationalizations for Cashman is to ignore his results. Bullpens are nice. Going long into games (especially in the playoffs) is better. "They would have won with Corbin" = speculation. "We can't say for sure if they would have won with Corbin" = statement of fact, not speculative. If people want to think that Cashman is actually a bad GM who's teams are somehow always fatally flawed despite winning a zillion games, and not just a real good GM who hasn't won in a while, well... I guess whatever helps you sleep at night. Another swing and miss. Corbin speculation is based on shrewd GM decision making. WITH Corbin, the Nationals won the NLCS. Without Corbin the Yankee bullpen was overused. Cashman could have had Corbin, wherein the speculation lies. Speculation now rests with how Martinez uses Corbin (the Astros' crush LHPSP) Again repeating myself for the Cashman apologists.... he whiffed 2 years in a row with respect to staring pitching. Counting on the Fat Man for X number of quality IP was a mistake. Not signing proven quality starting pitching (when much was available). Counting on Tanaka AND Paxton for Corbin and Cole like IP was sheer foolhardiness. Cashman put all his eggs in the bullpen, got really, really lucky with the offense and paid the price for his inability to respect what quality SP means to the success of the team. How you use your SP in the post season is the managers decision. Boone never got the chance that Cora or Cash had because Cashman whiffed when he failed to procure the assets to bring to bear (and please don't tell me the Twins were justification for Cashman. That would be compounding dumb with dumber.
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