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Let’s Go Shopping - 2020-21 FAs
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2020 9:51:59 GMT -5
OK, Sox now have cash and, if they want to spend it, could actually be contenders next year. If no one gets locked up in the exclusive period with their current team, whom would you advocate the Red Sox of Boston acquiring in the off season? Since I am throwing this out there I will go first:
All In George Springer 5 yrs Liam Hendrick 3 yrs
Maybe Marcus Stroman 4 yrs
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Post by dangermike on Sept 11, 2020 10:01:43 GMT -5
Id love to stay very far away from springer- I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’ll perform well in Fenway for whatever money he gets
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 10:07:29 GMT -5
Pass. I’d consider low-cost contracts for Trevor Rosenthal and JBJ, if possible. Otherwise, I’d be more inclined to use savings on extensions and taking on salary from teams looking to dump. Then make a play the following year, when the market is better.
I ain’t here for trading Mookie’s 28-32 seasons for Springer and Stroman.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Sept 11, 2020 10:08:59 GMT -5
I would stay far far away from stroman. I wouldn’t give anyone big money or a long term contract this offseason save ur money and flexibility for the 21-22 offseason
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Sept 11, 2020 10:35:21 GMT -5
I think absorbing a bad contract with minor league pitching talent might be the best option. If JBJ takes off a couple high contract outfielders who could handle Fenways outfield are Jason Heyward, Dexter Fowler and Kevin Kiermaier. All dependent if a team would give Bloom a decent enough prospect return.
As far as FA pitching Mike Minor, Jose Quintana and Jake Odorizzi on prove it contracts might be worth a look.
As far as high prices free agency, just wait for the 2022 shortstop class.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 11, 2020 10:47:40 GMT -5
Are there any specific reports of teams wanting to dump bad contracts this offseason? It seemed to me that Bloom was trying very hard to buy prospects at the trade deadline and didn't find much action.
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Post by lennsakata on Sept 11, 2020 11:06:49 GMT -5
I think he’s probably permanently broken but I’d give Kluber 9-10 mil for one year If we’re not spending, avoiding length in this market and his shoulder and everything else checks out . The upside is higher than most, one year is appealing and I don’t imagine he’d get much more than that after the last two years of injuries and ineffectiveness. Sounded like he looked good this spring training and in the summer camp before another injury.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Sept 11, 2020 11:16:57 GMT -5
I would stay far far away from stroman. I wouldn’t give anyone big money or a long term contract this offseason save ur money and flexibility for the 21-22 offseason
I would not be willing to take Stroman either. It seems that he has had a lot of injuries lately. Not sure we would be rewarded with a few good years from him with his injury concerns.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2020 11:21:15 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Sept 11, 2020 11:23:00 GMT -5
I would stay far far away from stroman. I wouldn’t give anyone big money or a long term contract this offseason save ur money and flexibility for the 21-22 offseason I would not be willing to take Stroman either. It seems that he has had a lot of injuries lately. Not sure we would be rewarded with a few good years from him with his injury concerns.
The maybe on Stroman is price and years. If they could get him for 3 x $15M or less it may be worth it.
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Post by jbsox on Sept 11, 2020 11:28:27 GMT -5
I’m assuming we will go over the tax but who knows. Let’s say we do I prefer guys on short deals.
1) starting pitching. Trevor Bauer has been having a fantastic season, and has been signing 1 year deals recently. Maybe we can get him on 1 or 2 year deal with a team option or something like that. If he pitches to his potential It could really help the top of the rotation. John Lester is a sentimental choice but he is having a terrible season, and was only averagish last year. If we got him very cheap on a 1 or 2 year deal maybe. I would guess Stroman wants a long term deal so I would stay away. Other than that finding another Perez on short deal whoever that might be. Odorizzi could be a bounce back candidate.
2) OF. I really wouldn’t be opposed to bringing JBJ back on a reasonable deal. Even if Duran is ready at some point next year the extra depth gives us options for another trade. I think Springer would want a long term deal so I think I would stay away. What about buying low on someone like Joc Pederson? Maybe he can be get back to the .240 30 hr guy (just realized he bats lefty so that wouldn’t be ideal for our OF). I could see Pillar coming back on another 1 year deal.
3) relief help. I hate spending on RP as they are so volatile, but if we can get good ones on 1 or year deals I’m for it.
Even if we made these type of moves I would think we would still have plenty of room for extensions (assuming we are going over the tax for the next couple years). Then within 2 years we would have plenty of salary coming off the books with no longer paying Price, NE, Pedroia, and JD along with whoever else we signed on short money this offseason.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 11:40:40 GMT -5
I’ve outlined my plan many times, but regarding FA pitching this off season, I don’t care who they sign to one-year contracts. The corpse of Corey Kluber? Sure. Someone has to pitch next year. But I don’t see any FA at any position who matches a dire need I’d go long-term on. I’d potentially sign relief pitchers to short-end multiyear contracts (2-3) at affordable prices. That’s about it.
The best improvements the Sox can make for next year will be health (ERod, Sale) and development (esp Dalbec). They should not trade a generational player to create savings and then blow it immediately because it is there. I hope Bloom has a bit more vision than that.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 11, 2020 12:08:28 GMT -5
Pass. I’d consider low-cost contracts for Trevor Rosenthal and JBJ, if possible. Otherwise, I’d be more inclined to use savings on extensions and taking on salary from teams looking to dump. Then make a play the following year, when the market is better. I ain’t here for trading Mookie’s 28-32 seasons for Springer and Stroman. What do you mean by this? You can debate whether or not Mookie would have re-signed, but he definitely wasn't going to re-sign for a four year deal.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 13:00:16 GMT -5
Pass. I’d consider low-cost contracts for Trevor Rosenthal and JBJ, if possible. Otherwise, I’d be more inclined to use savings on extensions and taking on salary from teams looking to dump. Then make a play the following year, when the market is better. I ain’t here for trading Mookie’s 28-32 seasons for Springer and Stroman. What do you mean by this? You can debate whether or not Mookie would have re-signed, but he definitely wasn't going to re-sign for a four year deal. I mean the money they’d be spending on 4-year deals (say) for Springer and Stroman would be the savings they have from not paying Mookie in those four years. I’m not being literal. My point is, we just had to do painful things to clear salary money. It isn’t worth it to turn around and spend on guys who are not going to put us over now and aren’t part of a longer term vision.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 11, 2020 13:09:00 GMT -5
Just because we’re under the tax doesn’t mean spending like drunken midshipmen is wise. I’d be looking to sign some legitimate big league pitching depth, and then extending core youngsters. Re-sign JBJ, and then call up Duran in May or June. Having quality defensive depth and capable base running in all four outfielders is, to me, invaluable.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 11, 2020 13:11:48 GMT -5
What do you mean by this? You can debate whether or not Mookie would have re-signed, but he definitely wasn't going to re-sign for a four year deal. I mean the money they’d be spending on 4-year deals (say) for Springer and Stroman would be the savings they have from not paying Mookie in those four years. I’m not being literal. My point is, we just had to do painful things to clear salary money. It isn’t worth it to turn around and spend on guys who are not going to put us over now and aren’t part of a longer term vision. I agree with the overall point you're making. Unless it's a core guy, I wouldn't prefer to see them spend big bucks just to plug holes. Save the big bucks for when you're looking for a player to put you over the top. Maybe they won't have to spend huge bucks to get a guy like Springer or even Stroman. At this point I'm not sure the big $ deals will be out there in this market. Mookie got it, but these guys aren't Mookie. I'm sure Bloom will be looking at value for FAs, but the bulk of his team building will be through trades. I don't think he's going to be the guy handing out huge contracts during a quiet free agent winter. Nor should he be.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 14:05:57 GMT -5
You have to project the free agent market and what teams will spend. Will teams just eat losses and still look for deals? The NBA and NFL can set limits while spreading out the losses. The MLB has zero ways of doing that as they have no salary cap. It's literally up to each owner.
I wouldn't want to be an Agent this off-season having to decide to take the best long-term offer versus the best one year offer. Especially on older guys like Springer. Heck how many QO do teams even offer?
My best guess is very few big deals if any frankly. The Yankees and big market teams if they are smart might use this to lock up the few top guys to good deals. They have to go after pitching. Yet the mid to low tier guys aren't going to do well. If you're Springer your looking for what a 150 million plus? I don't see anything close to that unless we have a vaccine before free agency and teams have clarity about the 2021 season. That would change everything. It will still be a down market, yet not some wasteland type crap.
If I'm GM I look for value, both short and long-term. I hate the idea of going into this market saying I'm not giving out any long-term deals. That wouldn't be my goal, yet if a good deal is sitting their I'm not turning it down. If Stroman could actually take a 3 year 45 million deal I'd jump on that all day. That's almost half of Eovaldi's deal for a better pitcher. A guy who's been a 3 bwar guy in 2017 and 2019. Yet I doubt he signs a deal like that. I'd look at Springer, yet again the deal I offer is something he'll likely not accept. Yet I'm 100% in on these guys seeing if some shorter good deal is there. That's just being smart. What if you can get Springer for three years 60 million? You have to seriously think about contracts like that if they are available.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 11, 2020 14:09:54 GMT -5
I could see the Sox bringing Workman back on a 1-year deal. I don't believe they'll go longer than 2 years with anyone.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 14:20:12 GMT -5
What do you mean by this? You can debate whether or not Mookie would have re-signed, but he definitely wasn't going to re-sign for a four year deal. I mean the money they’d be spending on 4-year deals (say) for Springer and Stroman would be the savings they have from not paying Mookie in those four years. I’m not being literal. My point is, we just had to do painful things to clear salary money. It isn’t worth it to turn around and spend on guys who are not going to put us over now and aren’t part of a longer term vision. I'd just point out what it really is, as in a top draft pick, along with higher picks in every round and a massive amount of pool money, reset the luxury tax, Verdugo, Downs, Wong Plus Springer and Stroman. If you want to be fair that's really what it is. You can certainly debate if we should sign those guys, yet you can't just say it's Betts versus them without including everything else. I'd also point out that trading Betts was the long-term vision part. They weren't going to give him a contract that long. You did that so you can spend in small spurts again. I know you don't see it, yet a 2013 team is certainly possible.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Sept 11, 2020 14:26:52 GMT -5
I think they go for 1 mid-rotation guy like Kevin Gausman, Garrett Richards, Jake Odorizzi, maybe buying low on Mike Minor.. if they don't trade for one. They will certainly sign 1 or 2 depth starters and probably some interesting but not elite bullpen arms. I think they will be in on Springer and Realmuto to see where those markets end up, if they reasonable I think they are in, if not I think they would be fine with JBJ/Vaz again. Probably need a 2B for a year while we wait on Downs, maybe Cesar Hernandez?
I'm guessing this exercise will be moot and there will be non-tenders and salary dumping around the league that the Sox will take advantage of rather than being big free agent players. Goign to be a wild November and December.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 11, 2020 14:28:49 GMT -5
I'm bringing in as many cheap bullpen arms possible. Id like to see a one year deal even if its for 7 mil on David Robertson. Then Greg holland and I'd give workman 3 years at 5 per year. Id bring back collin McHugh and take a swing at Bauer for a one year deal as well. From what ive seen from the Al east you as one of the worse teams in baseball this season could win the division next year.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 11, 2020 14:37:11 GMT -5
I think the best place to upgrade will be in the non-tendered player pool which is an unknown at this point.We could also make a fantastic AAA team with minor/major league split contracts.
The buy price on these players should be considerably less than what they would have made in arbitration.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 14:43:41 GMT -5
I mean the money they’d be spending on 4-year deals (say) for Springer and Stroman would be the savings they have from not paying Mookie in those four years. I’m not being literal. My point is, we just had to do painful things to clear salary money. It isn’t worth it to turn around and spend on guys who are not going to put us over now and aren’t part of a longer term vision. I'd just point out what it really is, as in a top draft pick, along with higher picks in every round and a massive amount of pool money, reset the luxury tax, Verdugo, Downs, Wong Plus Springer and Stroman. If you want to be fair that's really what it is. You can certainly debate if we should sign those guys, yet you can't just say it's Betts versus them without including everything else. I'd also point out that trading Betts was the long-term vision part. They weren't going to give him a contract that long. You did that so you can spend in small spurts again. I know you don't see it, yet a 2013 team is certainly possible. As I said... I wasn’t being literal. How about this: I don’t see why you reset, restock the system, etc etc and then sign a relatively expensive 3rd-ish starter who isn’t even playing this season and a 31-year-old who is not having an especially good season. Forget the Mookie part. I don’t think either of those guys is looking for a “small spurt.” If Stroman wants a 1-year deal, have at it. He and Eovaldi are pretty certain to get at least one full season between the two of them. But as a multiyear ramp up to the next big club? Nah.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 15:31:56 GMT -5
I'd just point out what it really is, as in a top draft pick, along with higher picks in every round and a massive amount of pool money, reset the luxury tax, Verdugo, Downs, Wong Plus Springer and Stroman. If you want to be fair that's really what it is. You can certainly debate if we should sign those guys, yet you can't just say it's Betts versus them without including everything else. I'd also point out that trading Betts was the long-term vision part. They weren't going to give him a contract that long. You did that so you can spend in small spurts again. I know you don't see it, yet a 2013 team is certainly possible. As I said... I wasn’t being literal. How about this: I don’t see why you reset, restock the system, etc etc and then sign a relatively expensive 3rd-ish starter who isn’t even playing this season and a 31-year-old who is not having an especially good season. Forget the Mookie part. I don’t think either of those guys is looking for a “small spurt.” If Stroman wants a 1-year deal, have at it. He and Eovaldi are pretty certain to get at least one full season between the two of them. But as a multiyear ramp up to the next big club? Nah. You do it to try and win a championship, just like 2013. The way you look at it, we'd have no 2013 Championship. They are going to spend money and it's likely not going to be massive deals on elite guys like Betts. That's the dumb part, letting Betts go and then just signing someone else to a similar contract. Which is what you seem to want them to do. Say you sign Springer, Stroman, a few bullpen pieces, resign Bradley for 4th OF and some Depth moves, say veteran to play 2B. That team has massive upside. By mid-season your rotation could be Sale, ERod, Stroman, Perez and Eovaldi. You have some guys for pitching depth, heck you have guys like Downs, Duran, Seabold, maybe Mata knocking on the door late in the season. Maybe those deals aren't there, yet maybe they are. Heck maybe they both take one year deals. Yet I'm 100% certain our owner is going to try and win next year. The debate is really how they do it.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 15:48:53 GMT -5
As I said... I wasn’t being literal. How about this: I don’t see why you reset, restock the system, etc etc and then sign a relatively expensive 3rd-ish starter who isn’t even playing this season and a 31-year-old who is not having an especially good season. Forget the Mookie part. I don’t think either of those guys is looking for a “small spurt.” If Stroman wants a 1-year deal, have at it. He and Eovaldi are pretty certain to get at least one full season between the two of them. But as a multiyear ramp up to the next big club? Nah. You do it to try and win a championship, just like 2013. The way you look at it, we'd have no 2013 Championship. They are going to spend money and it's likely not going to be massive deals on elite guys like Betts. That's the dumb part, letting Betts go and then just signing someone else to a similar contract. Which is what you seem to want them to do. Say you sign Springer, Stroman, a few bullpen pieces, resign Bradley for 4th OF and some Depth moves, say veteran to play 2B. That team has massive upside. By mid-season your rotation could be Sale, ERod, Stroman, Perez and Eovaldi. You have some guys for pitching depth, heck you have guys like Downs, Duran, Seabold, maybe Mata knocking on the door late in the season. Maybe those deals aren't there, yet maybe they are. Heck maybe they both take one year deals. Yet I'm 100% certain our owner is going to try and win next year. The debate is really how they do it. I never said sign anyone to a huge contract. But I would definitely prefer Bloom look into taking on money in trades than signing anyone in this FA class. I don’t think this is 2013, but I also don’t think Stroman/Springer would be the difference. They are virtually as good a team without them. Resign JBJ cheaper, get Benny straight. Really that latter point is essential... if he is what he was a few years ago, that is close to Springer and cheaper. I repeat again: I’m fine signing anyone to one year deals, but I don’t think that is what you are looking at with those guys. Then you are likely looking at logjamming Duran, carrying an aging Stroman etc.
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