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Let’s Go Shopping - 2020-21 FAs
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 15:57:33 GMT -5
You do it to try and win a championship, just like 2013. The way you look at it, we'd have no 2013 Championship. They are going to spend money and it's likely not going to be massive deals on elite guys like Betts. That's the dumb part, letting Betts go and then just signing someone else to a similar contract. Which is what you seem to want them to do. Say you sign Springer, Stroman, a few bullpen pieces, resign Bradley for 4th OF and some Depth moves, say veteran to play 2B. That team has massive upside. By mid-season your rotation could be Sale, ERod, Stroman, Perez and Eovaldi. You have some guys for pitching depth, heck you have guys like Downs, Duran, Seabold, maybe Mata knocking on the door late in the season. Maybe those deals aren't there, yet maybe they are. Heck maybe they both take one year deals. Yet I'm 100% certain our owner is going to try and win next year. The debate is really how they do it. I never said sign anyone to a huge contract. But I would definitely prefer Bloom look into taking on money in trades than signing anyone in this FA class. I don’t think this is 2013, but I also don’t think Stroman/Springer would be the difference. They are virtually as good a team without them. Resign JBJ cheaper, get Benny straight. Really that latter point is essential... if he is what he was a few years ago, that is close to Springer and cheaper. I repeat again: I’m fine signing anyone to one year deals, but I don’t think that is what you are looking at with those guys. Then you are likely looking at logjamming Duran, carrying an aging Stroman etc. Hmmm really? You think Springer and Stroman do nothing? They are just as good without them?🤯 Those two had over 10 bwar combined in 2017 and 2019
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 11, 2020 16:04:13 GMT -5
It's going to be interesting to see what interest (if any) Springer draws this off season. He's the first Astro position player to hit free agency since the scandal. I'm sure there will be several teams that won't even kick the proverbial tires.
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 16:07:48 GMT -5
I never said sign anyone to a huge contract. But I would definitely prefer Bloom look into taking on money in trades than signing anyone in this FA class. I don’t think this is 2013, but I also don’t think Stroman/Springer would be the difference. They are virtually as good a team without them. Resign JBJ cheaper, get Benny straight. Really that latter point is essential... if he is what he was a few years ago, that is close to Springer and cheaper. I repeat again: I’m fine signing anyone to one year deals, but I don’t think that is what you are looking at with those guys. Then you are likely looking at logjamming Duran, carrying an aging Stroman etc. Hmmm really? You think Springer and Stroman do nothing? They are just as good without them?🤯 Those two had over 10 bwar combined in 2017 and 2019 They are a combined .9 bWAR this season and will likely be asking for $40-$50 million combined per year — as Springer will be nearing 32, and Stroman crossing 30.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 16:48:04 GMT -5
Hmmm really? You think Springer and Stroman do nothing? They are just as good without them?🤯 Those two had over 10 bwar combined in 2017 and 2019 They are a combined .9 bWAR this season and will likely be asking for $40-$50 million combined per year — as Springer will be nearing 32, and Stroman crossing 30. Look at it this way, break it down. First the contract part, second just the players. You can debate both right? Springer has averaged 4.6 bwar over the last five years, also he's from CT. This is baseball 38 games means nothing, yet he's still on close to a 4 bwar season. Stroman hasn't pitched and remember we are talking 2021. Don't look at anything but the players, how are we likely not better with those guys? I'll point out guys can have down years, happens all the time. Yet don't overlook upside either. Springer and Stroman add upsides, you have to see that right? Bradley has never been as good as Springer, Godley, heck even Perez have never reached Stroman's highs in his career. The were the same with or without them is dead wrong. They can want whatever they want, it's going to be a buyer's market though. I fully agree you don't go huge for them. Yet short to medium length contracts absolutely make sense given this team. In a normal year this isn't a debate, they both easily get way too much. This won't be a normal off-season though. We'll have cash to spend when a lot of teams won't. I'm 100% down for everything. Good free agent deals, trading for guys, taking salary for prospects. Don't limit yourself because you want to act cheap like the Ray's. Act like the Dodgers, Smart and 100% willing to use money to make things happen. Depending how things play out this could be the best free agent class to spend money on.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 11, 2020 16:50:19 GMT -5
Hmmm really? You think Springer and Stroman do nothing? They are just as good without them?🤯 Those two had over 10 bwar combined in 2017 and 2019 They are a combined .9 bWAR this season and will likely be asking for $40-$50 million combined per year — as Springer will be nearing 32, and Stroman crossing 30. There is a huge difference between asking and reality, I've been asking my boss to make me a millionaire coder for years. All kidding aside, the top echelon guys will still get their money, and I don't think Stroman or Springer fall into that category. Taking out the Astros controversy and just looking at both of them, and most of the actual free agent class, after Betts signed with the Dodgers I just don't see anyone else getting paid, there won't be a market with at least a sizable portion of the teams because of Covid-19 and limited revenue, and the teams with money (Sox, Yankees, Dodgers) aren't going to go out of their way to drive prices up for players, throw into that the collective bargaining agreement expiring and I just think we're going to see a ton of pillow contracts and the odd extension here and there when they make sense. Players aren't going to want to leave money on the table, and owners aren't going to want to open up the checkbook until everything around the game settles down. All this said, I'm very interested to see what kind of bargains can be found by Bloom and Company. It really is a perfect storm offseason to set a franchise with money up to be very competitive for a relative pittance compared to usual prices.
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 16:59:59 GMT -5
They are a combined .9 bWAR this season and will likely be asking for $40-$50 million combined per year — as Springer will be nearing 32, and Stroman crossing 30. Look at it this way, break it down. First the contract part, second just the players. You can debate both right? Springer has averaged 4.6 bwar over the last five years, also he's from CT. This is baseball 38 games means nothing, yet he's still on close to a 4 bwar season. Stroman hasn't pitched and remember we are talking 2021. Don't look at anything but the players, how are we likely not better with those guys? I'll point out guys can have down years, happens all the time. Yet don't overlook upside either. Springer and Stroman add upsides, you have to see that right? Bradley has never been as good as Springer, Godley, heck even Perez have never reached Stroman's highs in his career. The were the same with or without them is dead wrong. They can want whatever they want, it's going to be a buyer's market though. I fully agree you don't go huge for them. Yet short to medium length contracts absolutely make sense given this team. In a normal year this isn't a debate, they both easily get way too much. This won't be a normal off-season though. We'll have cash to spend when a lot of teams won't. I'm 100% down for everything. Good free agent deals, trading for guys, taking salary for prospects. Don't limit yourself because you want to act cheap like the Ray's. Act like the Dodgers, Smart and 100% willing to use money to make things happen. Depending how things play out this could be the best free agent class to spend money on. Here’s what I don’t want the Sox to be: the Red Sox 2014. They had money and needs. So with a problem at 3B, they signed a guy who’d averaged over 4 bWAR per 162 games the previous 4 seasons. Was he a great 3B? No. The best FA in a weak market? Yes. Then they decide to bash a square peg into a round hole in LF. Take the guy who’d put up about 9 WAR in 200 games the previous two seasons. Is he a good fit? Of course not. Is he the best available hitter? You bet. Are these guys ok players? Sure. Are they what the team needs? Are they part of a forward thinking plan? Clearly I think no, and you think yes. That is as far as we’ll ever get.
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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 11, 2020 17:19:35 GMT -5
Dont forget developement, we have a good catalog of pitching very interesting since I been following the prospects. Yeah go that back.
I like to see one deal grabbing a pitcher from another team going a different direction. I cant wait for Duran.
Also its time to drop the hammer on Petey I love the guy but its over. Give him his one more year kiss in the mail. Castillo is done. You know Chaim is no Ben giving out deals to Pablo and Hanley. How bad was Pablo. You know what's worse he get cut and goes back to San Fran and gets a second wind. Are you kidding me on our dime.
Dont you guys think there may be a good market regarding trades. Free agents I would be scarred , what do they do cry collusion? LOL.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 11, 2020 17:31:01 GMT -5
Some thoughts subject to change:
- First, as others have pointed out, our three biggest positional needs for 2021 are at the positions of our top three position player prospects (1B – Casas, 2B – Downs, OF/CF – Duran). The extent to which the FO views these players as future starters, and their anticipated timelines affect how you attack this offseason. Personally, I like the potential for all three of these guys to be starters but none ready to do so to start the 2021 season (more comfortably Duran and Downs to begin 2022, Casas late in 2022).
- That said, I think they should try to be competitive next year and find stopgaps who can help for next year, and potentially beyond. So with that mind, I think one of my favorite targets next year is:
DJ LeMahieu – 2B: Logic – Shouldn’t break the bank although I imagine we’d have to outbid the Yanks which could be tough if he has incentive to stay. Maybe the Yanks are ready to move on though if they’re trying to reset their luxury tax penalties? Regardless, I see great fit for him over the next 2 years although probably will need a 3 year contract. He can step in as the starting 2B next year, give us a .300 hitter to put at the top of the lineup, and if Downs plays his way to the 2B position in 2022, LeMahieu has the positional flexibility to play 1B should we need a stopgap to Casas until say 2023. He’s only going to be 32 next year and his production in NY hopefully suggests his COL production was no fluke (yes, he’s even hit on the road while in the AL).
Aside from that:
- Give Springer, Brantley, and Ozuna looks. If one is available at what is perceived to be good value…you roll out FA, Benintendi, and Verdugo to begin 2021 with Duran applying pressure. That said, if we pick up a LeMahieu level infielder, not sure I’d go all in for a top OF. I’d also be fine with a JBJ-level or equivalent 1-year type to bridge to Duran.
Pitchers: Starting pitching is as obvious as a need as any. That said, with the natural progression of our own prospects, plus the acquisition of Pivetta and Seabold….our depth is actually looking solid. Consider that the Worcester staff could include Mata, Houck, Seabold, and potentially Ward or Groome later in the year. I’m probably looking to add one SP projected for the major league rotation and another SP with upside willing to sign a minor league deal or take a flex starter/reliever role depending on need.
My favorite SP targets to pencil in rotation: Jake Odorizzi, Mike Minor, Kevin Gausman My favorite SP targets to serve as depth: Alex Wood, Aaron Sanchez (coming back from injury), Anthony DeSclafani (coming off rough year, could buy low)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 18:13:55 GMT -5
Look at it this way, break it down. First the contract part, second just the players. You can debate both right? Springer has averaged 4.6 bwar over the last five years, also he's from CT. This is baseball 38 games means nothing, yet he's still on close to a 4 bwar season. Stroman hasn't pitched and remember we are talking 2021. Don't look at anything but the players, how are we likely not better with those guys? I'll point out guys can have down years, happens all the time. Yet don't overlook upside either. Springer and Stroman add upsides, you have to see that right? Bradley has never been as good as Springer, Godley, heck even Perez have never reached Stroman's highs in his career. The were the same with or without them is dead wrong. They can want whatever they want, it's going to be a buyer's market though. I fully agree you don't go huge for them. Yet short to medium length contracts absolutely make sense given this team. In a normal year this isn't a debate, they both easily get way too much. This won't be a normal off-season though. We'll have cash to spend when a lot of teams won't. I'm 100% down for everything. Good free agent deals, trading for guys, taking salary for prospects. Don't limit yourself because you want to act cheap like the Ray's. Act like the Dodgers, Smart and 100% willing to use money to make things happen. Depending how things play out this could be the best free agent class to spend money on. Here’s what I don’t want the Sox to be: the Red Sox 2014. They had money and needs. So with a problem at 3B, they signed a guy who’d averaged over 4 bWAR per 162 games the previous 4 seasons. Was he a great 3B? No. The best FA in a weak market? Yes. Then they decide to bash a square peg into a round hole in LF. Take the guy who’d put up about 9 WAR in 200 games the previous two seasons. Is he a good fit? Of course not. Is he the best available hitter? You bet. Are these guys ok players? Sure. Are they what the team needs? Are they part of a forward thinking plan? Clearly I think no, and you think yes. That is as far as we’ll ever get. I give you props for always trying to prove your point, war based on 162 is a good one.😁
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Post by juanfatj on Sept 11, 2020 18:22:52 GMT -5
I am in the camp that we are not competitive next season, so no long term deals, and stay under the tax. I do think we should move on from benny. Big no on Springer, I would rather have Ozuna on a 1 year deal. Then when Duran is ready you could possibly move Ozuna at the deadline if he was having a good season and eat salary for a better return. Taijuan Walker on a 2 year deal would be a nice addition to the staff.
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Post by foreverred9 on Sept 11, 2020 18:38:08 GMT -5
Here’s what I don’t want the Sox to be: the Red Sox 2014. They had money and needs. So with a problem at 3B, they signed a guy who’d averaged over 4 bWAR per 162 games the previous 4 seasons. Was he a great 3B? No. The best FA in a weak market? Yes. Then they decide to bash a square peg into a round hole in LF. Take the guy who’d put up about 9 WAR in 200 games the previous two seasons. Is he a good fit? Of course not. Is he the best available hitter? You bet. Are these guys ok players? Sure. Are they what the team needs? Are they part of a forward thinking plan? Clearly I think no, and you think yes. That is as far as we’ll ever get. This. As much as I blame Dombrowski for getting us into this mess (and not having an exit strategy), these contracts got the ball rolling and didn't help. It's incredibly hard to stay under the threshold with dead money on the books, and it will now be a stretch of 5 years where we head into the year with 15-20M of dead money (Pablo 2018/2019, Price 2020/2021/2022).
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 11, 2020 18:54:26 GMT -5
What do you mean by this? You can debate whether or not Mookie would have re-signed, but he definitely wasn't going to re-sign for a four year deal. I mean the money they’d be spending on 4-year deals (say) for Springer and Stroman would be the savings they have from not paying Mookie in those four years. I’m not being literal. My point is, we just had to do painful things to clear salary money. It isn’t worth it to turn around and spend on guys who are not going to put us over now and aren’t part of a longer term vision. Okay yeah I agree with the point in general
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Post by unitspin on Sept 11, 2020 19:13:18 GMT -5
Some thoughts subject to change: - First, as others have pointed out, our three biggest positional needs for 2021 are at the positions of our top three position player prospects (1B – Casas, 2B – Downs, OF/CF – Duran). The extent to which the FO views these players as future starters, and their anticipated timelines affect how you attack this offseason. Personally, I like the potential for all three of these guys to be starters but none ready to do so to start the 2021 season (more comfortably Duran and Downs to begin 2022, Casas late in 2022). - That said, I think they should try to be competitive next year and find stopgaps who can help for next year, and potentially beyond. So with that mind, I think one of my favorite targets next year is: DJ LeMahieu – 2B: Logic – Shouldn’t break the bank although I imagine we’d have to outbid the Yanks which could be tough if he has incentive to stay. Maybe the Yanks are ready to move on though if they’re trying to reset their luxury tax penalties? Regardless, I see great fit for him over the next 2 years although probably will need a 3 year contract. He can step in as the starting 2B next year, give us a .300 hitter to put at the top of the lineup, and if Downs plays his way to the 2B position in 2022, LeMahieu has the positional flexibility to play 1B should we need a stopgap to Casas until say 2023. He’s only going to be 32 next year and his production in NY hopefully suggests his COL production was no fluke (yes, he’s even hit on the road while in the AL). Aside from that: - Give Springer, Brantley, and Ozuna looks. If one is available at what is perceived to be good value…you roll out FA, Benintendi, and Verdugo to begin 2021 with Duran applying pressure. That said, if we pick up a LeMahieu level infielder, not sure I’d go all in for a top OF. I’d also be fine with a JBJ-level or equivalent 1-year type to bridge to Duran. Pitchers: Starting pitching is as obvious as a need as any. That said, with the natural progression of our own prospects, plus the acquisition of Pivetta and Seabold….our depth is actually looking solid. Consider that the Worcester staff could include Mata, Houck, Seabold, and potentially Ward or Groome later in the year. I’m probably looking to add one SP projected for the major league rotation and another SP with upside willing to sign a minor league deal or take a flex starter/reliever role depending on need. My favorite SP targets to pencil in rotation: Jake Odorizzi, Mike Minor, Kevin GausmanMy favorite SP targets to serve as depth: Alex Wood, Aaron Sanchez (coming back from injury), Anthony DeSclafani (coming off rough year, could buy low) So you think the yanks will go over the cap for a third year in a row and be the first to take all the hits in the draft and international spending.
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Post by manfred on Sept 11, 2020 19:15:37 GMT -5
Here’s what I don’t want the Sox to be: the Red Sox 2014. They had money and needs. So with a problem at 3B, they signed a guy who’d averaged over 4 bWAR per 162 games the previous 4 seasons. Was he a great 3B? No. The best FA in a weak market? Yes. Then they decide to bash a square peg into a round hole in LF. Take the guy who’d put up about 9 WAR in 200 games the previous two seasons. Is he a good fit? Of course not. Is he the best available hitter? You bet. Are these guys ok players? Sure. Are they what the team needs? Are they part of a forward thinking plan? Clearly I think no, and you think yes. That is as far as we’ll ever get. I give you props for always trying to prove your point, war based on 162 is a good one.😁 He’d been hurt a bit. Hey, I’m giving the positive spin to what was obviously a bad signing.... but he was the best *available* option.. I look at the current free agent market as a similar down one. Stroman and Springer epitomize the “best available” — not best *possible* — distinction.
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Post by jclmontana on Sept 11, 2020 19:35:14 GMT -5
The difficulty with this thread and others like it is the fundamental difference of opinion between posters on whether the Sox are/should be in the middle of a tear down, and those who think the sox can reload on the fly and be reasonably competitive next year. I am firmly in the reload-on-the-fly camp. The Sox should try hard to get the assets to compete next year, but (of course!) avoid the Sandoval type albatrosses, and even the Price type albatrosses. I think tear-down advocates are ignoring the simple fact that baseball is a high variance sport—that you can increase the odds of success, but you can’t stack the odds like in basketball In basketball, teams can get a certain number of stars and be reasonably sure of dominating. That’s way tougher to do in baseball. Hell, it’s hard to do in basketball (Hello Philadelphia!). Wasting the current core or trading them out for a fistful of lottery tickets and future value while looking forward to 2023 is bad business. There are just too many variables to punt the next season or two in search of a sure thing.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 11, 2020 20:05:39 GMT -5
The difficulty with this thread and others like it is the fundamental difference of opinion between posters on whether the Sox are/should be in the middle of a tear down, and those who think the sox can reload on the fly and be reasonably competitive next year. I am firmly in the reload-on-the-fly camp. The Sox should try hard to get the assets to compete next year, but (of course!) avoid the Sandoval type albatrosses, and even the Price type albatrosses. I think tear-down advocates are ignoring the simple fact that baseball is a high variance sport—that you can increase the odds of success, but you can’t stack the odds like in basketball In basketball, teams can get a certain number of stars and be reasonably sure of dominating. That’s way tougher to do in baseball. Hell, it’s hard to do in basketball (Hello Philadelphia!). Wasting the current core or trading them out for a fistful of lottery tickets and future value while looking forward to 2023 is bad business. There are just too many variables to punt the next season or two in search of a sure thing. I agree ppl keep passing over how good this lineup could be. We need pitching but adding a couple guys in the off-season and guys getting back healthy could see something insane like winning it all. If jdm was hitting wed be fighting for the playoffs right now.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 11, 2020 20:17:00 GMT -5
Some thoughts subject to change: - First, as others have pointed out, our three biggest positional needs for 2021 are at the positions of our top three position player prospects (1B – Casas, 2B – Downs, OF/CF – Duran). The extent to which the FO views these players as future starters, and their anticipated timelines affect how you attack this offseason. Personally, I like the potential for all three of these guys to be starters but none ready to do so to start the 2021 season (more comfortably Duran and Downs to begin 2022, Casas late in 2022). - That said, I think they should try to be competitive next year and find stopgaps who can help for next year, and potentially beyond. So with that mind, I think one of my favorite targets next year is: DJ LeMahieu – 2B: Logic – Shouldn’t break the bank although I imagine we’d have to outbid the Yanks which could be tough if he has incentive to stay. Maybe the Yanks are ready to move on though if they’re trying to reset their luxury tax penalties? Regardless, I see great fit for him over the next 2 years although probably will need a 3 year contract. He can step in as the starting 2B next year, give us a .300 hitter to put at the top of the lineup, and if Downs plays his way to the 2B position in 2022, LeMahieu has the positional flexibility to play 1B should we need a stopgap to Casas until say 2023. He’s only going to be 32 next year and his production in NY hopefully suggests his COL production was no fluke (yes, he’s even hit on the road while in the AL). Aside from that: - Give Springer, Brantley, and Ozuna looks. If one is available at what is perceived to be good value…you roll out FA, Benintendi, and Verdugo to begin 2021 with Duran applying pressure. That said, if we pick up a LeMahieu level infielder, not sure I’d go all in for a top OF. I’d also be fine with a JBJ-level or equivalent 1-year type to bridge to Duran. Pitchers: Starting pitching is as obvious as a need as any. That said, with the natural progression of our own prospects, plus the acquisition of Pivetta and Seabold….our depth is actually looking solid. Consider that the Worcester staff could include Mata, Houck, Seabold, and potentially Ward or Groome later in the year. I’m probably looking to add one SP projected for the major league rotation and another SP with upside willing to sign a minor league deal or take a flex starter/reliever role depending on need. My favorite SP targets to pencil in rotation: Jake Odorizzi, Mike Minor, Kevin GausmanMy favorite SP targets to serve as depth: Alex Wood, Aaron Sanchez (coming back from injury), Anthony DeSclafani (coming off rough year, could buy low) So you think the yanks will go over the cap for a third year in a row and be the first to take all the hits in the draft and international spending. No I don't, that's why I left it as an open-ended question. Truth be told, I didn't take the time to see how much space they have projected to stay under the lowest threshold. I know they're not expected to be super aggressive in free agency, but I think they have room to do a little.
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Post by kingstephanos on Sept 11, 2020 22:00:38 GMT -5
ramireja, To play 'Devil's Advocate', how likely are any of Red Sox pitching prospects to reach the ceiling of a rotation arm? Bloggers/scouts like the contrarian Keith Law, for example, don't see any sure-fire starting pitching in our system outside of Groome who's only pitched 60 innings of actual minor league baseball.
At a time when money is and will be scarce in baseball, perhaps trading the 'average' players on the current roster, ala Vasquez (13th in fWAR) for more bites at the prospect apple would be a better strategy in these weird times. In addition to taking on larger contracts from cash-strapped teams - which has been discussed ad nauseam in previous threads.
Giving out high salary one or two-year deals for multiple starters (i.e. Stroman, Minor, Semien, or even the hated Baur) could be advantageous, especially if other teams are less likely to fork over cash next season.
For all of the Red Sox fault's, they are still Top 10 in: batting avg, slugging, wOBA, position player age, and wins above avg at 1B and all outfield positions. Getting better on the mound with extremely short term contracts could be a market inefficiency, where Sale's deal is the only mega-contract on the books. This could keep the team nimble enough to make numerous changes at the margins without another David Price-like deal hampering future investments.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 23:01:35 GMT -5
Here’s what I don’t want the Sox to be: the Red Sox 2014. They had money and needs. So with a problem at 3B, they signed a guy who’d averaged over 4 bWAR per 162 games the previous 4 seasons. Was he a great 3B? No. The best FA in a weak market? Yes. Then they decide to bash a square peg into a round hole in LF. Take the guy who’d put up about 9 WAR in 200 games the previous two seasons. Is he a good fit? Of course not. Is he the best available hitter? You bet. Are these guys ok players? Sure. Are they what the team needs? Are they part of a forward thinking plan? Clearly I think no, and you think yes. That is as far as we’ll ever get. This. As much as I blame Dombrowski for getting us into this mess (and not having an exit strategy), these contracts got the ball rolling and didn't help. It's incredibly hard to stay under the threshold with dead money on the books, and it will now be a stretch of 5 years where we head into the year with 15-20M of dead money (Pablo 2018/2019, Price 2020/2021/2022). Come on those aren't the same, the Red Sox improved releasing Sandoval. Bloom traded Price and ate that money. He didn't have to trade him to get under. Price was overpaid, yet still a useful piece. I'm not evening say the move was wrong, yet that was our current GM.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2020 23:06:54 GMT -5
I give you props for always trying to prove your point, war based on 162 is a good one.😁 He’d been hurt a bit. Hey, I’m giving the positive spin to what was obviously a bad signing.... but he was the best *available* option.. I look at the current free agent market as a similar down one. Stroman and Springer epitomize the “best available” — not best *possible* — distinction. Is that it? Kinda seems like you're trying to act like they are similar when they aren't. Have zero issues if you don't want Springer, yet he's not Sandoval.
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Post by tyler3 on Sept 11, 2020 23:17:42 GMT -5
I’d like Brantley and Bauer. You get good outfielder and bat, and if Trevor is really interested in a year deal you get it done. I’m fine for just letting this year go, but you need some additional talent on both sides of the ball for next year. Benintendi and JD were horrible this year, hopefully they bounce back. Sale and E Rod may not be themselves right away (and Sale’s not projected to back till early summer). You need something that boosts the short term talent so we don’t completely waste another year of Devers, Bogaerts, Verdugo, and maybe Dalbec now.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 12, 2020 2:15:19 GMT -5
The difficulty with this thread and others like it is the fundamental difference of opinion between posters on whether the Sox are/should be in the middle of a tear down, and those who think the sox can reload on the fly and be reasonably competitive next year. I am firmly in the reload-on-the-fly camp. The Sox should try hard to get the assets to compete next year, but (of course!) avoid the Sandoval type albatrosses, and even the Price type albatrosses. I think tear-down advocates are ignoring the simple fact that baseball is a high variance sport—that you can increase the odds of success, but you can’t stack the odds like in basketball In basketball, teams can get a certain number of stars and be reasonably sure of dominating. That’s way tougher to do in baseball. Hell, it’s hard to do in basketball (Hello Philadelphia!). Wasting the current core or trading them out for a fistful of lottery tickets and future value while looking forward to 2023 is bad business. There are just too many variables to punt the next season or two in search of a sure thing. This is a really good point. And I want to make a further one: the team 100% believes they can contend next year, and they will be committed to trying to do so.
So the minority folks who propose a tear-it-all-down program will be amusing themselves, but not really adding to an interesting conversation for the rest of us, about what the team might actually do.
Projected rotation depth chart for next year:
Chris Sale (established ace) Eduardo Rodriguez (established #2) Nathan Eovaldi (established #3 / #4 with upside Acquisition (ditto, likely) Martin Perez (ditto) Nick Pivetta (#5 with tantalizing #3 or better upside) Connor Seabold (projected #4).
You have depth, and 4 candidates to step forward and be the starter in game 3 of a playoff.
They've gotten just 15 starts from these guys, none from the #1 and #2, and as recently as August 20 they were 6-5 in their games while they were 2-13 in games started the others, a bunch of guys who project to get zero starts next year. (Subsequently they've lost all 4 of Perez's games but have gone 8 - 8 in the games started by the nobodies. That corresponds to an OPS split by the offense of 744 and then 824 -- the latter obviously much more in line with expectations. If FG stops being buggy, I'll report those in wRC+, with ranks among all teams.)
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2020 8:02:24 GMT -5
I’d like Brantley and Bauer. You get good outfielder and bat, and if Trevor is really interested in a year deal you get it done. I’m fine for just letting this year go, but you need some additional talent on both sides of the ball for next year. Benintendi and JD were horrible this year, hopefully they bounce back. Sale and E Rod may not be themselves right away (and Sale’s not projected to back till early summer). You need something that boosts the short term talent so we don’t completely waste another year of Devers, Bogaerts, Verdugo, and maybe Dalbec now. I like Bauer, too, but excluded him because of the one-year deal. My guess is he wants to sign with what he sees as a sure-thing play-off team - i..e LA Dodgers, Atlanta, NYY, Cubs, etc. I don’t think Tampa would have the $25-30M. A team with a ticket punched or one pitcher away. My guess is Sale and ERod would have to look very healthy and Sox would need to buck the offense for him to want to sign with Boston.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 12, 2020 8:04:27 GMT -5
LOL, A rebel without a clue.
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Post by jdb on Sept 12, 2020 8:05:35 GMT -5
I think we can compete with some more luck on the injury front but I don’t want another huge contract that would require us losing a high second round pick either. Also with this market players might just accept the QO and a one year deal and test the market next year. If Bauer is said to want to go year to year I think that would be an option for him bc he likes Cincy.
Ozuna is a guy I want to kick the tires on and don’t think he’ll get more than 3-4 years since he settled for 1 and $18M this year. Also it takes two but I try and lock up Devers and Verdugo. I think he following FA class is one to go into with more high end options.
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