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Let’s Go Shopping - 2020-21 FAs
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2020 18:18:56 GMT -5
Exactly. Same way they got Pillar on a 4m deal. no reason to overpay JBJ 6m+ on a 1, even a multi year deal when they should be able to find someone available and everyone should know by now Boras is going to look long and hard for every last cent before settling on any 1y deal. I think you're probably right on this. My estimates were just that - estimates. I actually think JBJ (and many other players of that caliber) will be by the phone as ST approaches. I like CB's ability to make the right decisions on choosing from that large pool. It might be analagous to 1995 after the work stoppage. DD was able to find guys on the cheap who contributed to a division championship: Troy O'leary, Eric Hanson, and Luis Alicea, to name a few. Wasn't the deal that Bloom looked into trading JBJ last offseason and was surprised at the general lack of interest? I think there's a possibility he values him more than most other GMs, which is plausible given that JBJ's value is of the less obvious sort.
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Post by blizzards39 on Sept 21, 2020 23:16:30 GMT -5
If you look at the Sox history and Blooms history, I think we can kind of assume that we will be looking at more trades than FAs. Not to say that they won’t fill holes with FAs, but we need arms. And arms with options. You don’t find these in FA. I’d say X, Devers and Verdugo are all back. Every other player on the roster ( JD most likely back, just because of the situation) is shopped. Chavis, Benny, Vazquez, Dalbec. I’d say these 4 are at the top of can we turn them into arms. As for FA LeMahieu is the guy I’m after
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Post by soxaddict on Sept 22, 2020 0:01:46 GMT -5
If you look at the Sox history and Blooms history, I think we can kind of assume that we will be looking at more trades than FAs. Not to say that they won’t fill holes with FAs, but we need arms. And arms with options. You don’t find these in FA. I’d say X, Devers and Verdugo are all back. Every other player on the roster ( JD most likely back, just because of the situation) is shopped. Chavis, Benny, Vazquez, Dalbec. I’d say these 4 are at the top of can we turn them into arms. As for FA LeMahieu is the guy I’m after LeMahieu is my #1 offseason target as well. I’d like to see a LH 1B-OF added like Joc Pederson, Jay Bruce or maybe even Jurickson Profar. I agree, I think Vazquez or Plawecki and one of Chavis or Dalbec is shopped. I think Benentindi’s value is at an all time low, I think we gotta keep him and hope he rebounds.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,982
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Post by jimoh on Sept 22, 2020 7:08:53 GMT -5
I don't know if there is something like this earlier in the thread, but this seems like a great sortable list of possible free agents. Ages, salaries, 2020 stats and links to more. www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 22, 2020 8:02:03 GMT -5
If you look at the Sox history and Blooms history, I think we can kind of assume that we will be looking at more trades than FAs. Not to say that they won’t fill holes with FAs, but we need arms. And arms with options. You don’t find these in FA. I’d say X, Devers and Verdugo are all back. Every other player on the roster ( JD most likely back, just because of the situation) is shopped. Chavis, Benny, Vazquez, Dalbec. I’d say these 4 are at the top of can we turn them into arms. As for FA LeMahieu is the guy I’m after LeMahieu is my #1 offseason target as well. I’d like to see a LH 1B-OF added like Joc Pederson, Jay Bruce or maybe even Jurickson Profar. I agree, I think Vazquez or Plawecki and one of Chavis or Dalbec is shopped. I think Benentindi’s value is at an all time low, I think we gotta keep him and hope he rebounds. Boy I don't know. The guys that you mentioned are all older than what we have and IMHO their performances don't knock the 'Sox' off, excepting LeMahieu. The grass isn't always greener. LeMahieu has found a home in N.Y....His swing is perfect for that stadium and he gives the Yanks what they had lacked until recently...a high average hitter amidst the bevy of strikeout prone sluggers. I believe that they will open the coffers to keep him.
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Post by soxaddict on Sept 22, 2020 13:35:17 GMT -5
LeMahieu is my #1 offseason target as well. I’d like to see a LH 1B-OF added like Joc Pederson, Jay Bruce or maybe even Jurickson Profar. I agree, I think Vazquez or Plawecki and one of Chavis or Dalbec is shopped. I think Benentindi’s value is at an all time low, I think we gotta keep him and hope he rebounds. Boy I don't know. The guys that you mentioned are all older than what we have and IMHO their performances don't knock the 'Sox' off, excepting LeMahieu. The grass isn't always greener. LeMahieu has found a home in N.Y....His swing is perfect for that stadium and he gives the Yanks what they had lacked until recently...a high average hitter amidst the bevy of strikeout prone sluggers. I believe that they will open the coffers to keep him. I'm really surprised the Yanks haven't locked him up already. But, they've got pitching issues with Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ being free agents. Judge, Sanchez and Urshela in their 2nd year of arb, Torres and Voit in 1st year of arb, so all of those guys are going to start getting expensive. I expect them to focus on starting pitching. Well see. We currently have zero LH 1B options to platoon with Chavis or Dalbec. Pederson is 28, Bruce 33 and Profar 27. I think any of those guys could be had reasonably on 1 year deals. This is what I would like to see. 2B - LeMahieu RF - Verdugo DH - Martinez 3B - Devers SS - Bogaerts 1B - Dalbec or Chavis LF - Benny C - Vazquez CF - Munoz (until Duran is called up or could play RF and use Verdugo in CF) C - Plawecki, Grullon or Wong UT - Arroyo, Arauz, Peraza, or Lin 1B-OF - Pederson, Bruce, or Profar OF - Puello
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Post by jkfer98 on Sept 22, 2020 23:57:26 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans tend to be anti-Springer?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 23, 2020 0:28:18 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans tend to be anti-Springer? Astros ring any bells ?
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 23, 2020 11:25:27 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans tend to be anti-Springer? Astros ring any bells ? I can't hear any bells ringing but I do hear a vague thumping sound.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 23, 2020 16:19:08 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans tend to be anti-Springer? I'm not anti-Springer. But I'm anti-exceeding the LT threshold in 2021. I'm anti-giving up a 2021 second-round pick and $500,000 in int. signing money for the decline years of a big-money FA. You make those moves when you're ready to seriously contend for a WS title, not this off-season. Springer is sure to get a QO from the Astros, triggering the draft pick loss if we sign him. That second-round pick will be particularly valuable, given our crap 2020 season.
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Post by soxin8 on Sept 23, 2020 17:10:29 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me why Red Sox fans tend to be anti-Springer? I'm not anti-Springer. But I'm anti-exceeding the LT threshold in 2021. I'm anti-giving up a 2021 second-round pick and $500,000 in int. signing money for the decline years of a big-money FA. You make those moves when you're ready to seriously contend for a WS title, not this off-season. Springer is sure to get a QO from the Astros, triggering the draft pick loss if we sign him. That second-round pick will be particularly valuable, given our crap 2020 season. This I think is an interesting topic for debate. On the pregame radio broadcast, Lou Merloni suggested the Sox should stay under the tax this year and go over in 2022 to begin their 3 year window before resetting. It is also a question for debate how much value you place on a high second round pick compared to a free agent receiving a QO.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 24, 2020 21:56:04 GMT -5
I'm not anti-Springer. But I'm anti-exceeding the LT threshold in 2021. I'm anti-giving up a 2021 second-round pick and $500,000 in int. signing money for the decline years of a big-money FA. You make those moves when you're ready to seriously contend for a WS title, not this off-season. Springer is sure to get a QO from the Astros, triggering the draft pick loss if we sign him. That second-round pick will be particularly valuable, given our crap 2020 season. This I think is an interesting topic for debate. On the pregame radio broadcast, Lou Merloni suggested the Sox should stay under the tax this year and go over in 2022 to begin their 3 year window before resetting. It is also a question for debate how much value you place on a high second round pick compared to a free agent receiving a QO. The problem with that is you're assuming the same system is in place under the new CBA. If it's not you've "wasted" a year for nothing.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 24, 2020 23:04:11 GMT -5
This I think is an interesting topic for debate. On the pregame radio broadcast, Lou Merloni suggested the Sox should stay under the tax this year and go over in 2022 to begin their 3 year window before resetting. It is also a question for debate how much value you place on a high second round pick compared to a free agent receiving a QO. The problem with that is you're assuming the same system is in place under the new CBA. If it's not you've "wasted" a year for nothing. Not true. Yes, the CBA that would go into effect in 2022 could, for all we know, eliminate the LT (though I think that's highly unlikely) or it could raise the thresholds substantially (which would be my bet). Either way, one of the handful of worst teams in MLB shouldn't be larding up its payroll with big contracts that nearly always result in massive overpay for decline years. Even without a LT, decisions like that compromise your ability to compete down the road. And the loss of the draft pick and $500,000 in int. signing money would hit in 2021. The new CBA wouldn't save us from losing those assets. The front office should not be in GFIN mode this off-season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 25, 2020 1:09:19 GMT -5
The problem with that is you're assuming the same system is in place under the new CBA. If it's not you've "wasted" a year for nothing. Not true. Yes, the CBA that would go into effect in 2022 could, for all we know, eliminate the LT (though I think that's highly unlikely) or it could raise the thresholds substantially (which would be my bet). Either way, one of the handful of worst teams in MLB shouldn't be larding up its payroll with big contracts that nearly always result in massive overpay for decline years. Even without a LT, decisions like that compromise your ability to compete down the road. And the loss of the draft pick and $500,000 in int. signing money would hit in 2021. The new CBA wouldn't save us from losing those assets. The front office should not be in GFIN mode this off-season. The giant elephant in the CBA might not be in the room yet. If the owners approve the sale of the Mets to Cohen, it's going to be thank God the Mets are in the National League. Cohen has more money than the combined next 4 richest owners and no corporation to answer to. Why on Earth would he concern himself whatsoever with the Luxury Tax penalties including draft penalties ?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 25, 2020 9:57:10 GMT -5
If you look at the Sox history and Blooms history, I think we can kind of assume that we will be looking at more trades than FAs. Not to say that they won’t fill holes with FAs, but we need arms. And arms with options. You don’t find these in FA. I’d say X, Devers and Verdugo are all back. Every other player on the roster ( JD most likely back, just because of the situation) is shopped. Chavis, Benny, Vazquez, Dalbec. I’d say these 4 are at the top of can we turn them into arms. As for FA LeMahieu is the guy I’m after We already traded the veterans that we could trade, except for JBJ who they didn’t trade for some reason even those he has all but said he is gone. Our farm system still needs some serious re-stocking. As for Springer, I don’t think a 32 year old OFer is a good idea at this time. None of the OF options make a ton of sense to me except JBJ who is apparently leaving... maybe Billy Hamilton? We’re not in a one or two pieces away situation where Springer makes sense. Id go out and get Kevin Gausman and some relievers. Maybe 2B like Kolten Wong (if available) or Jurickson Profar who someone else mentioned.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 25, 2020 10:56:32 GMT -5
The problem with that is you're assuming the same system is in place under the new CBA. If it's not you've "wasted" a year for nothing. Not true. Yes, the CBA that would go into effect in 2022 could, for all we know, eliminate the LT (though I think that's highly unlikely) or it could raise the thresholds substantially (which would be my bet). Either way, one of the handful of worst teams in MLB shouldn't be larding up its payroll with big contracts that nearly always result in massive overpay for decline years. Even without a LT, decisions like that compromise your ability to compete down the road. And the loss of the draft pick and $500,000 in int. signing money would hit in 2021. The new CBA wouldn't save us from losing those assets. The front office should not be in GFIN mode this off-season. 1) To clarify, I wasn't advocating for going all-in or "larding up the payroll," but was simply saying that the "let's wait to get into our window of going over the CBT" is flawed because it assumes the same system will be in place after 2021. 2) There is no IFA cap penalty for going over the CBT. There is one for signing a QO free agent and it goes up from $500k to $1M if the team is over the CBT, which might be what you're thinking of. 3) There is no draft pick penalty for going over the CBT until you get to the third CBT level, in which case your pick is pushed back 10 spots. Again, going over the CBT changes the draft pick penalty for signing a player who rejected a QO. For the Red Sox, they would lose their second-highest pick no matter what, but going over the CBT would mean they lose their fifth-highest pick as well.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 25, 2020 11:19:15 GMT -5
If you look at the Sox history and Blooms history, I think we can kind of assume that we will be looking at more trades than FAs. Not to say that they won’t fill holes with FAs, but we need arms. And arms with options. You don’t find these in FA. I’d say X, Devers and Verdugo are all back. Every other player on the roster ( JD most likely back, just because of the situation) is shopped. Chavis, Benny, Vazquez, Dalbec. I’d say these 4 are at the top of can we turn them into arms. As for FA LeMahieu is the guy I’m after We already traded the veterans that we could trade, except for JBJ who they didn’t trade for some reason even those he has all but said he is gone. Our farm system still needs some serious re-stocking. He has? How has he indicated this exactly?
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Post by soxin8 on Sept 25, 2020 12:27:33 GMT -5
This I think is an interesting topic for debate. On the pregame radio broadcast, Lou Merloni suggested the Sox should stay under the tax this year and go over in 2022 to begin their 3 year window before resetting. It is also a question for debate how much value you place on a high second round pick compared to a free agent receiving a QO. The problem with that is you're assuming the same system is in place under the new CBA. If it's not you've "wasted" a year for nothing. You have sold me on going over the tax for next year, as the Sox have seemed to indicate they might do when they said they plan to be competitive next year. What is your personal opinion on spending a high second rounder on a player like Bauer? I understand the odds are not great a player in the second round is a star, but also know there is a chance it could be a Pedroia or Lester.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Sept 25, 2020 19:56:08 GMT -5
Important to note that DJ LeMahieu didn't get the qualifying offer by the Rockies 2 years ago, so New York will definitely be giving him the QO no matter what happens. It lessons the chance of the Sox pursuing him.
There's a lot of free agents that will get QO attached to them that would interest the Sox.
JT Realmuto LeMahieu Bauer
Marcell Ozuna won't have the QO attached since he's already been offered it however.
Not sure I would want to lose a second round pick for anyone but Realmuto.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Sept 26, 2020 0:01:48 GMT -5
I don’t want Bauer just because he’s the type of guy the radio hacks/sports media in this city will be insufferable about if he doesn’t have an ERA better than 3.50
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 26, 2020 0:18:26 GMT -5
I'm thinking that if Cohen's purchase of the Mets is confirmed, there aren't going to be any big time free agents for the next few years and he's not going to care about a QO.
Realmuto, Bauer and LeMahieu will all be wearing Mets gear.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Sept 26, 2020 1:42:29 GMT -5
Add George Springer to the list of free agents that the Sox could be interested in that should definitely get the QO. I wouldn't be interested in losing a second round pick for him either. Can't believe I forgot to add him to the list.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Sept 26, 2020 2:15:02 GMT -5
Last post. The big two free agent targets I think they should be all over is Kirby Yates and Liam Hendricks. I think the bullpen needs more help than any area on this team. Getting two plus arms like these 2 would help for the next 3-4 years.
I like the Whit Merrifield trade idea for the second base hole on the team. Versatile guy that can move around and help the team in that area too. Maybe headline Hudson Potts in a trade package for him since Potts seems kind redundant with Casas, JDM, Dalbec, and Chavis ahead of him in the depth chart the next couple of years.
Don't think the Sox should spend big outside the organization the next couple of years. Devers Verdugo Eduardo Rodriguez (maybe) Benintendi
All need big raises in the near term and should get contract extensions. I listed them the way that I did in terms of importance of extending. Devers first on the list and so on. This is going to take a huge chunk of the payroll to get done.
Correction- Yates might not be a free agent until 2021. He had a arm injury in 2020. Don't think the Padres have much financial room with no fans this year. Definitely a trade candidate before the non tender deadline.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 26, 2020 16:52:40 GMT -5
I think you're probably right on this. My estimates were just that - estimates. I actually think JBJ (and many other players of that caliber) will be by the phone as ST approaches. I like CB's ability to make the right decisions on choosing from that large pool. It might be analagous to 1995 after the work stoppage. DD was able to find guys on the cheap who contributed to a division championship: Troy O'leary, Eric Hanson, and Luis Alicea, to name a few. Wasn't the deal that Bloom looked into trading JBJ last offseason and was surprised at the general lack of interest? I think there's a possibility he values him more than most other GMs, which is plausible given that JBJ's value is of the less obvious sort. I can see where Boras will probably get some GM to give JBJ a multi year deal now possibly at the 11m he's currently making over 2-3y since he's finished strong this season. It won't be a wise decision IMO for a guy who really only has had 1 other productive season with his bat other than the shortened 2020 one. Think myself bringing in some low cost player.. Another Pillar type.. Even pushing Duran into a starter role after ST would be preferable to giving JBJ anything north of 6m and more than 1y. Myself? Believe, as a fallback plan Benintendi could play the position if had to. Chavis some LF. Munoz some OF, Verdugo is a capable CF and RF. Other options than throwing bad money at fluke seasons, or short spurts. Remember Sandoval? Joe Kelly? Don't fall for JBJ LT deal. It ain't real.
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Post by manfred on Sept 26, 2020 17:04:11 GMT -5
Wasn't the deal that Bloom looked into trading JBJ last offseason and was surprised at the general lack of interest? I think there's a possibility he values him more than most other GMs, which is plausible given that JBJ's value is of the less obvious sort. I can see where Boras will probably get some GM to give JBJ a multi year deal now possibly at the 11m he's currently making over 2-3y since he's finished strong this season. It won't be a wise decision IMO for a guy who really only has had 1 other productive season with his bat other than the shortened 2020 one. Think myself bringing in some low cost player.. Another Pillar type.. Even pushing Duran into a starter role after ST would be preferable to giving JBJ anything north of 6m and more than 1y. Myself? Believe, as a fallback plan Benintendi could play the position if had to. Chavis some LF. Munoz some OF, Verdugo is a capable CF and RF. Other options than throwing bad money at fluke seasons, or short spurts. Remember Sandoval? Joe Kelly? Don't fall for JBJ LT deal. It ain't real. I can see this latter case, but let’s face it: unless everything comes up aces, that is a baaaadddd outfield. Benny needs a legit turnaround, and Chavis and Munoz are huge risks. I can’t see being serious about competing and not bringing in a starter — maybe JBJ, maybe someone even better. But Chavis/Benny/AV is not an outfield you trot out to say “we’re in it this year.” Of course, I also don’t think they are in it next year without massive, costly moves, so bagging, going with that sub-par outfield and saving money wouldn’t bother me that much.
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