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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 13, 2021 18:25:47 GMT -5
Yeah if you don't think any of them should get in, more power to you. I get it. My point is one at the exclusion of the others.
I actually feel the same way about the no-brainers. I think I'd be a small Hall guy if it weren't for the fact that I think that's just not reasonable given who's already in.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jan 15, 2021 20:08:11 GMT -5
It's highly unlikely that Schilling will make it this year. With 37.1 percent of the ballots known, he's at 74.8 percent. Last year, he dropped 7.3 percent once all the votes were in.
His failure this year is a major surprise to me. He got 70 percent last year and guys who get to that level almost always gain a bit and get elected.
I have to think that the emphasis on social justice and crushing bigorty has caused some voters to shy away from him. I can't think of any other reason a qualified candidate would drop like this. I can tell you that while I'd be reluctant to omit someone because of the character clause, I have no problem with voters who use it. It's available for them to factor into their vote if they choose.
And now even I would probably omit him for character reasons. His praise for the Capitol riot pushed me there.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 15, 2021 21:49:44 GMT -5
It's highly unlikely that Schilling will make it this year. With 37.1 percent of the ballots known, he's at 74.8 percent. Last year, he dropped 7.3 percent once all the votes were in. His failure this year is a major surprise to me. He got 70 percent last year and guys who get to that level almost always gain a bit and get elected. I have to think that the emphasis on social justice and crushing bigorty has caused some voters to shy away from him. I can't think of any other reason a qualified candidate would drop like this. I can tell you that while I'd be reluctant to omit someone because of the character clause, I have no problem with voters who use it. It's available for them to factor into their vote if they choose. And now even I would probably omit him for character reasons. His praise for the Capitol riot pushed me there. Yeah - he's clearly a hall of famer who should have been in years ago based off performance. I'm in the same boat as you, in the past i would have voted him as 'yeah, he has selfish and loud political views, plus he screwed over some people due to his business, but there are a lot of ignorant and/or bad people in the hall of fame'. But the more recent stuff...makes me feel bad for cheering for him during his years on the Red Sox. At this point, I feel the veterans committee electing him the year after he passes away would be most appropriate. Sorry if that sounds cruel, but he makes it so hard to support him as a fan.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 16, 2021 11:55:59 GMT -5
The ballots were due to be mailed by EOY, right?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jan 16, 2021 12:27:21 GMT -5
fixed
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Post by Coreno on Jan 16, 2021 12:43:59 GMT -5
lol
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Post by rminns10 on Jan 16, 2021 17:32:35 GMT -5
I think Schilling should be in and used to love him doing baseball analysis on ESPN. I dont pay much attention to his politics and his twitter persona but heard him on a podcast recently and he did not sound well at all. Just an angry guy nowadays.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 18, 2021 9:20:38 GMT -5
It's highly unlikely that Schilling will make it this year. With 37.1 percent of the ballots known, he's at 74.8 percent. Last year, he dropped 7.3 percent once all the votes were in. His failure this year is a major surprise to me. He got 70 percent last year and guys who get to that level almost always gain a bit and get elected. He only gained three votes among returning voters and lost four votes among returning voters. He only picked is only on 4 of the 7 ballots of voters that did not vote last year. he is trending away from rather than towards election. I would be surprised if he gets elected this year.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 18, 2021 9:23:14 GMT -5
The ballots were due to be mailed by EOY, right? Yes. I thought I read somewhere there was also an electronic submission option this year, but I could be mistaken.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 26, 2021 13:29:40 GMT -5
So I am guessing we’re are getting no one elected this year.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 26, 2021 18:41:10 GMT -5
It is telling how much more space there is on the ballot than there was a couple years ago. Hudson and Buehrle had long, interesting careers that fall short in my eyes but deserve a long look. That they get that look where guys like Johan Santana and Kenny Lofton did not is a little crazy.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,990
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Post by jimoh on Jan 26, 2021 18:56:04 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 26, 2021 19:09:07 GMT -5
The voters let in Bud Selig with 93 percent of the vote back in 2017 but refuse to let in guys like Clemens and Bonds because of steroids. I find that a wee bit hypocritical but maybe that's just me.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 26, 2021 19:10:05 GMT -5
No surprise there.
The thing that makes me glad is the support that Scott Rolen is getting. It gives me hope for Chase Utley when his time comes up. The balloting is moving towards how good players were and away from how much good copy they inspired.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,916
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Post by nomar on Jan 26, 2021 19:21:46 GMT -5
The hall of fame mattered to me a lot more when I was a little kid than it does now. Its goalposts are basically on a tilt-a-whirl.
Nowadays the real fun, however intangible, is the nostalgia I feel when certain players’ names come up.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jan 26, 2021 19:28:24 GMT -5
Looks like Schilling got Nightengale'd...
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,916
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Post by nomar on Jan 26, 2021 19:33:04 GMT -5
Looks like Schilling got Nightengale'd... I can’t believe this guy didn’t get laid off this year
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Post by incandenza on Jan 26, 2021 20:01:18 GMT -5
Speaking of Nightengale...
This f'in guy.
I'm fine with people who vote for Schilling for on-the-field reasons. But his whining about how journalists mistreat him, after he has advocated physical violence against journalists... boy I don't know. If he considers himself a courageous patriot or whatever the least he can do is accept the consequences for his words and actions.
You can adopt a bunch of hateful rhetoric and bray about how it's your principles, or you can complain about being treated unfairly despite being one of the most privileged people on earth, but you can't do both.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jan 26, 2021 20:18:01 GMT -5
Speaking of Nightengale...
This f'in guy.
I'm fine with people who vote for Schilling for on-the-field reasons. But his whining about how journalists mistreat him, after he has advocated physical violence against journalists... boy I don't know. If he considers himself a courageous patriot or whatever the least he can do is accept the consequences for his words and actions.
You can adopt a bunch of hateful rhetoric and bray about how it's your principles, or you can complain about being treated unfairly despite being one of the most privileged people on earth, but you can't do both.
Yeah, real courageous move by Curt. He types up a crybaby letter saying he doesn't want the voters to consider him again. But he sticks in a drawer and waits to see how this year's voting goes. Once he sees he didn't make it, he makes the letter public. If he's so principled up there on his high horse, why didn't he disclose the letter before voters submitted their ballots? I'd be wild with joy if Luis Tiant made the HOF. He deserves it. Based on his on-field accomplishments, Schilling also deserves it. But I'm at the point where he disgusts me so much I'd feel nothing if he made it.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 26, 2021 20:27:08 GMT -5
Bumping this from a month ago. The writers have treated Schilling's on-field more objectively than the Veterans Committee seems likely to, at least while his contemporaries are still making up the Veterans Committee.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 26, 2021 21:01:49 GMT -5
Bumping this from a month ago. The writers have treated Schilling's on-field more objectively than the Veterans Committee seems likely to, at least while his contemporaries are still making up the Veterans Committee. Had not seen this before. That's about as stark as it gets. Everyone but... Add: It says volumes when the people that you've threatened with violence are willing to cut you more slack than your co-workers.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 26, 2021 22:19:20 GMT -5
My nephew served in Iraq and Afghanistan. While on duty, Curt visited the soldiers and autographed a Sox cap that my nephew gave to me. The act of my nephew giving me the hat has more significance to me than the fact the he signed it, but it is noteworthy that he visited the soldiers during conflict, and it is a valued gift to me.
To me, Curt fits the textbook definition of psychological projection. His insecurities (along with a golden arm) led him to achieve what he did, and there are substantial achievements. i have cringed when i have heard some of the things he has said since retirement, but i actually have some empathy here. I think he is frustrated with the process and he is disappointed. Wont get too deep in value judgments on foolish things people say, it is obvious that they are not appropriate. However, I think, as far as him being in the Hall, he probably deserves to be there.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 26, 2021 23:50:09 GMT -5
My nephew served in Iraq and Afghanistan. While on duty, Curt visited the soldiers and autographed a Sox cap that my nephew gave to me. The act of my nephew giving me the hat has more significance to me than the fact the he signed it, but it is noteworthy that he visited the soldiers during conflict, and it is a valued gift to me. To me, Curt fits the textbook definition of psychological projection. His insecurities (along with a golden arm) led him to achieve what he did, and there are substantial achievements. i have cringed when i have heard some of the things he has said since retirement, but i actually have some empathy here. I think he is frustrated with the process and he is disappointed. Wont get too deep in value judgments on foolish things people say, it is obvious that they are not appropriate. However, I think, as far as him being in the Hall, he probably deserves to be there. It's just so damn difficult. I mean a person's political beliefs, whether they differ from you or not, shouldn't matter, and I don't think it does. I think democrats and a lot of republicans recoiled at what they saw on Jan 6th but if you don't....I don't know how that doesn't count against somebody's character. I mean, I read what he had to say and he wasn't wrong about a lot of what he wrote. I mean, as far as I can tell, no he didn't cheat while many others did (note that the two biggest stars who were never suspended for cheating still haven't made the HOF, so they're paying their price too). He was never arrested for DWI. He never physically assaulted anybody. We have three candidates that had problems with the previous two issues I mentioned. There are a lot of flawed human beings up for election. But you're not there to judge a player's character, but if you're a writer you do have that morals clause you can use, not that the write himself/herself necessarily deserves to be a judge on that. If it were just about the numbers, it should be such a clear cut case that Schilling deserves to be in. When he won the World Series I remember him with his arms around David Ortiz and Pedro Martinez. His reputation was for being a stodgy no nonsense type of guy, not for being racist. So I try to reconcile his views he puts out there, which he refuses to acknowledge the company he's keeping, with what he was with Boston. If I had a vote I would have voted for him - until now. I guess that's where I draw the line. Everybody has a different line they draw in the sand and as to whether it's been crossed or not. I guess I'm just glad I'm not a voter. It's hard to reconcile. I mean players have been trying to get an edge for years. Whitey Ford was scuffing the ball. It's not like you're going to kick him out, so that makes it difficult to judge against the PEDs era players. Is Sheffield acceptable if you believe he didn't knowingly cheat, or Pettitte who used just so briefly (according to him) so he can heal quicker? Are Bonds and Clemens acceptable because they were legitimately great before the PEDs? Should Sosa and McGuire be given a longer look because it wasn't illegal back then? Does Manny deserve to be in, knowing he got popped twice AFTER testing was put into place? Where is that line drawn? I'm at the point I don't even know anymore. Man, I wish we were debating whether Kenny Lofton or Mark Buehrle or Scott Rolen were or were not HOFers. It's not that simple anymore. Or fun.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 26, 2021 23:51:38 GMT -5
Speaking of Nightengale...
This f'in guy.
I'm fine with people who vote for Schilling for on-the-field reasons. But his whining about how journalists mistreat him, after he has advocated physical violence against journalists... boy I don't know. If he considers himself a courageous patriot or whatever the least he can do is accept the consequences for his words and actions.
You can adopt a bunch of hateful rhetoric and bray about how it's your principles, or you can complain about being treated unfairly despite being one of the most privileged people on earth, but you can't do both.
On the field is what voters should base their vote in ONLY!
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 26, 2021 23:55:09 GMT -5
Speaking of Nightengale...
This f'in guy.
I'm fine with people who vote for Schilling for on-the-field reasons. But his whining about how journalists mistreat him, after he has advocated physical violence against journalists... boy I don't know. If he considers himself a courageous patriot or whatever the least he can do is accept the consequences for his words and actions.
You can adopt a bunch of hateful rhetoric and bray about how it's your principles, or you can complain about being treated unfairly despite being one of the most privileged people on earth, but you can't do both.
On the field is what voters should base their vote in ONLY! Pete Rose should be in the HOF as a player. (I can’t stand the SOB as a person), but he deserves the HOF as a player. Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, Palmeiro all cheated on the field as player IMO they are a NOGO for the HOF.
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