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Red Sox reportedly shopping Benintendi
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Post by foreverred9 on Jan 27, 2021 21:55:49 GMT -5
It never made any sense to me. Pennies on the dollar for a guy making "only" 6m moved at absolute lowest point, then he was hurt to boot? Only reason he could have been moved in my thoughts was to clear salary for some OF replacement who would have cost $$ wise right at/over the salary cap and the Sox *HAD* to get back more than some AAAA piece in return and not eat every dime of Benny's deal, which wasn't gonna' happen. Long story short? Reason number 532 JBJ ain't wearing a RS uni.. I think this is a case of us not having enough context. We hear Beni is on the market and think that the Sox were just looking to get rid of him. It wouldn't surprise me that the Sox had him on the block and were serious about it, but my guess is that the goal was to arbitrage the market rather than purely selling Beni. If a team was willing to value him with more of a rebound to normal than the Sox valued him, they would have sold. That's at least what I would have been doing if I was in their shoes.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Jan 27, 2021 21:57:35 GMT -5
It seems to me that every supposed trade or free agent signing has missed the mark with all the prognosticators. Bloom has done a great job of diverting the attention from his actual deals except, I am guessing, Kiki Hernandez. I really was never on board with them trading Benny, but this board was filled with all the possibilities of who was interested and what they would give... Bravo to CB.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 28, 2021 0:41:07 GMT -5
It never made any sense to me. Pennies on the dollar for a guy making "only" 6m moved at absolute lowest point, then he was hurt to boot? Only reason he could have been moved in my thoughts was to clear salary for some OF replacement who would have cost $$ wise right at/over the salary cap and the Sox *HAD* to get back more than some AAAA piece in return and not eat every dime of Benny's deal, which wasn't gonna' happen. Long story short? Reason number 532 JBJ ain't wearing a RS uni.. I think this is a case of us not having enough context. We hear Beni is on the market and think that the Sox were just looking to get rid of him. It wouldn't surprise me that the Sox had him on the block and were serious about it, but my guess is that the goal was to arbitrage the market rather than purely selling Beni. If a team was willing to value him with more of a rebound to normal than the Sox valued him, they would have sold. That's at least what I would have been doing if I was in their shoes. I come back to how underrated Brantley is and how ridiculous his Fenway numbers have been.
Now, it is 100% true beyond any argument that there exists a Benny trade where the prospect return, if you could get it, makes trading him and signing Brantley a smart thing to do. For instance, you would trade him even up for Wander Franco, right? So in theory there is some (much) lesser prospect package that could actually happen that would still be better than keeping him.
It's malpractice not to shop him and see if such a deal exists. It's no surprise that it didn't, but to me that's what had to be going on. Given Brantley's great fit, you'd be upset if they didn't explore that possibility, as slim as it might be.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 28, 2021 2:13:38 GMT -5
I have a feeling that the Benintendi reports were a bit overblown. When we hear something will be done by the end of the weekend, and then nothing has happened weeks later, I start to question. I'm sure they talked with teams about a deal - they've talked with everyone about everything this offseason - but who knows how far talks actually got? Lol, well the 1 year anniversary of the trade of Mookie Betts is 3 weeks away. So I wouldn't hedge any bets that these talks aren't still serious. Bloom doesn't care about timing, that's for sure. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I still think there's more than a 50/50 chance he's gone even before spring training.
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Post by tdenehy01 on Jan 29, 2021 2:14:13 GMT -5
I feel like the Benny would be a great fit on the braves. Wouldnt shock me if he was sent there before ST
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Post by splendidsplinter on Jan 29, 2021 18:17:10 GMT -5
After listening to Bloom on the podcast there is little doubt imho that he is one sharp dude. He has a well analyzed rational on what Beni is worth and he’ll get it or keep him. No one one the Sox should feel Ike Delock secure. If he can obtain value he will make the deal.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 29, 2021 19:16:26 GMT -5
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 29, 2021 19:20:28 GMT -5
It never made any sense to me. Pennies on the dollar for a guy making "only" 6m moved at absolute lowest point, then he was hurt to boot? Only reason he could have been moved in my thoughts was to clear salary for some OF replacement who would have cost $$ wise right at/over the salary cap and the Sox *HAD* to get back more than some AAAA piece in return and not eat every dime of Benny's deal, which wasn't gonna' happen. Long story short? Reason number 532 JBJ ain't wearing a RS uni.. I think this is a case of us not having enough context. We hear Beni is on the market and think that the Sox were just looking to get rid of him. It wouldn't surprise me that the Sox had him on the block and were serious about it, but my guess is that the goal was to arbitrage the market rather than purely selling Beni. If a team was willing to value him with more of a rebound to normal than the Sox valued him, they would have sold. That's at least what I would have been doing if I was in their shoes. I agree with you. Talk costs nothing but time. I do not think the Red Sox were serious about trading Beni, and maybe just cast their line to see if they could catch anything of value (which would have been shocking if they did). As I said on January 10th... “I really doubt Benintendi gets traded.” “The Red Sox will need a left handed complement to Renfro, and that gives Benintendi more value to the Red Sox than what they can get for him. At this point he would bring back a midland prospect at best, so why dump Beni. Bloom has yet to give away a player that has more value than what he will receive (especially when you look at CONTROLLABILITY).”
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 29, 2021 19:32:01 GMT -5
I have a feeling that the Benintendi reports were a bit overblown. When we hear something will be done by the end of the weekend, and then nothing has happened weeks later, I start to question. I'm sure they talked with teams about a deal - they've talked with everyone about everything this offseason - but who knows how far talks actually got? Lol, well the 1 year anniversary of the trade of Mookie Betts is 3 weeks away. So I wouldn't hedge any bets that these talks aren't still serious. Bloom doesn't care about timing, that's for sure. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I still think there's more than a 50/50 chance he's gone even before spring training. IMO the only reason to trade Beni is if the RS are planning on resigning Bradley to play CF and keep Verdugo in RF. Renfro would then be in LF as the right handed half of a platoon.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 29, 2021 21:56:29 GMT -5
Jeremiah Jackson or Paris would be nice. Jackson could be a second baseman and has crazy power with the common K issues that come with it
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 29, 2021 22:13:45 GMT -5
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 29, 2021 22:19:15 GMT -5
I like Benintendi always will and he's still only 26 there's no reason he can't get back on track. That said I'll be okay with whatever they decide on him in terms of keeping him or trading him.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 30, 2021 4:45:47 GMT -5
This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Slim and not bulked up will help his defense.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 30, 2021 8:21:46 GMT -5
This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Slim and not bulked up will help his defense. ....speed and agility...Guys age 26 shouldn't be losing running speed and quickness unless other impeding factors operate.
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Post by greenmonster on Jan 30, 2021 8:52:24 GMT -5
This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Slim and not bulked up will help his defense. I haven't listened to it yet, but my son was telling me about a Barstool Podcast where they interview Alex Cora. Subject of Benintendi came up and Alex said he told Benny (paraphrased).....Don't try to hit homeruns, focus on hitting .300, getting onbase, and playing good defense. I believe that is the correct advice for Benny and was glad to hear Cora encouraging that approach. Of course they didn't ask him why Benny tryed to transform himself into a HR hitter. The guy is 5-9 and has plenty of skills that don't include hitting HR's..... I have come around on my thinking and now fully support the Benny-Bounce-Back approach.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 30, 2021 10:52:33 GMT -5
This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Slim and not bulked up will help his defense. I haven't listened to it yet, but my son was telling me about a Barstool Podcast where they interview Alex Cora. Subject of Benintendi came up and Alex said he told Benny (paraphrased).....Don't try to hit homeruns, focus on hitting .300, getting onbase, and playing good defense. I believe that is the correct advice for Benny and was glad to hear Cora encouraging that approach. Of course they didn't ask him why Benny tryed to transform himself into a HR hitter. The guy is 5-9 and has plenty of skills that don't include hitting HR's..... I have come around on my thinking and now fully support the Benny-Bounce-Back approach. I wonder if Mookie's success and path to it made Benny try for something beyond himself. Benny in '18 was substantially similar to Mookie's career line pre-MVP
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 30, 2021 12:32:13 GMT -5
This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Slim and not bulked up will help his defense. I haven't listened to it yet, but my son was telling me about a Barstool Podcast where they interview Alex Cora. Subject of Benintendi came up and Alex said he told Benny (paraphrased).....Don't try to hit homeruns, focus on hitting .300, getting onbase, and playing good defense. I believe that is the correct advice for Benny and was glad to hear Cora encouraging that approach. Of course they didn't ask him why Benny tryed to transform himself into a HR hitter. The guy is 5-9 and has plenty of skills that don't include hitting HR's..... I have come around on my thinking and now fully support the Benny-Bounce-Back approach. In my mind's eye, Benny was perhaps overstriding in an attempt to generate power coincident with his bulking up. That may have slowed or delayed his bat to the zone. I remember playing ball and trying to hit it farther. The harder I tried, 'the behinder I got'. Even when I hit the ball, there was no power left. I was overstriding.
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Post by greenmonster on Jan 30, 2021 13:35:42 GMT -5
Nowadays a level line drive swing is frowned upon. The launch angle revolution has altered the path of hitters swings so as to generate more loft and distance on fly balls. I wonder if Benny's launch angle data supports the idea that he altered his swing path........Eric??
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 30, 2021 13:43:33 GMT -5
Lol, well the 1 year anniversary of the trade of Mookie Betts is 3 weeks away. So I wouldn't hedge any bets that these talks aren't still serious. Bloom doesn't care about timing, that's for sure. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I still think there's more than a 50/50 chance he's gone even before spring training. IMO the only reason to trade Beni is if the RS are planning on resigning Bradley to play CF and keep Verdugo in RF. Renfro would then be in LF as the right handed half of a platoon. This only follows logically if Renfroe were a bad defender, which he isn't. They easily could trade Benintendi to sign a left fielder.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 30, 2021 13:47:11 GMT -5
The thing to keep in mind with Benintendi and his physique is that his sophomore breakout is credited in part to the fact he was hurt the summer before and couldn't play summer ball (quad injury or somesuch), so he spent it in the weight room and got stronger. It's not like he got to the pros and was like "ahhhhhh I have to hit home runs now time to lift heavy." It's a balance. You need strength to impact the ball. His issues weren't a launch angle/swing path thing, at least not in any way that sticks out in the numbers. baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
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Post by manfred on Jan 30, 2021 14:03:54 GMT -5
I wonder if we are over analyzing it. Beni in 2019 slashed .266/.343/.431. In 2017 he slashed .271/.352/.424.
Maybe that is about what he is? That looking at his peak year in 2018 makes us feel like 2019 was the beginning of a decline that ended in the pit of 2020 instead of simply a return to normal in 2019.
In which case, instead of thinking he’s on a season and a part slide, we can say he had one aberration of 14 games and 39 ABs. Isn’t it highly possible that he had some combination of physical and mental discomfort that made it a rough stretch that could well vanish with nothing more than an off-season? In some ways, I take his higher walk rate (more than twice his previous high) as a bad sign — or at least a sign that he was not feeling good, making him passive — or just confused.
I think if they just let Benny get his ABs, he’ll be back to that .270//.350/.430 — now, if that is good *enough* is a different debate.
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Post by greenmonster on Jan 30, 2021 14:04:23 GMT -5
Thanks Chris....I am by no means a statistic expert but the link you shared showed Benny's average launch angle for 2018 at 12.8 deg and 17.3 deg for 2019. That seems like a significant increase to me. What am I missing?
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Post by incandenza on Jan 30, 2021 14:18:09 GMT -5
Thanks Chris....I am by no means a statistic expert but the link you shared showed Benny's average launch angle for 2018 at 12.8 deg and 17.3 deg for 2019. That seems like a significant increase to me. What am I missing? He also hit the ball harder, hit more fly balls, and struck out more, which kind of sounds like a guy trying to hit home runs?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 30, 2021 14:25:44 GMT -5
I wonder if we are over analyzing it. Beni in 2019 slashed .266/.343/.431. In 2017 he slashed .271/.352/.424. Maybe that is about what he is? That looking at his peak year in 2018 makes us feel like 2019 was the beginning of a decline that ended in the pit of 2020 instead of simply a return to normal in 2019. In which case, instead of thinking he’s on a season and a part slide, we can say he had one aberration of 14 games and 39 ABs. Isn’t it highly possible that he had some combination of physical and mental discomfort that made it a rough stretch that could well vanish with nothing more than an off-season? In some ways, I take his higher walk rate (more than twice his previous high) as a bad sign — or at least a sign that he was not feeling good, making him passive — or just confused. I think if they just let Benny get his ABs, he’ll be back to that .270//.350/.430 — now, if that is good *enough* is a different debate. 3 full seasons 2017 - AB 573, BA .271, OBP .352, OPS .776 2018 - AB 579, BA .290, OBP .366, OPS .830 2019 - AB 541, BA .266, OBP .343, OPS .774 Agreed, maybe Beni is an outfielder who hits BA .276, OBP .353, OPS .780, and that would be good enough depending on who else is available and at what price. The small incremental gain in the replacements hitting may not be worth the additional cost given other needs on the team.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jan 30, 2021 15:15:02 GMT -5
I wonder if we are over analyzing it. Beni in 2019 slashed .266/.343/.431. In 2017 he slashed .271/.352/.424. Maybe that is about what he is? That looking at his peak year in 2018 makes us feel like 2019 was the beginning of a decline that ended in the pit of 2020 instead of simply a return to normal in 2019. In which case, instead of thinking he’s on a season and a part slide, we can say he had one aberration of 14 games and 39 ABs. Isn’t it highly possible that he had some combination of physical and mental discomfort that made it a rough stretch that could well vanish with nothing more than an off-season? In some ways, I take his higher walk rate (more than twice his previous high) as a bad sign — or at least a sign that he was not feeling good, making him passive — or just confused. I think if they just let Benny get his ABs, he’ll be back to that .270//.350/.430 — now, if that is good *enough* is a different debate. 3 full seasons 2017 - AB 573, BA .271, OBP .352, OPS .776 2018 - AB 579, BA .290, OBP .366, OPS .830 2019 - AB 541, BA .266, OBP .343, OPS .774 Agreed, maybe Beni is an outfielder who hits BA .276, OBP .353, OPS .780, and that would be good enough depending on who else is available and at what price. The small incremental gain in the replacements hitting may not be worth the additional cost given other needs on the team. This has been said many times, but on Aug 16, 2019, Benintendi was at .290 .363 .475 .839 (although with only 12 hrs), then he had a putrid final six weeks, hitting .151 .250 .215 .465. He had had some weak stretches earlier, but the last six weeks were the killer. The defensive and base running drop-off may have been consistent, but was he too bulked up when he was hitting .290 .363 .475 .839?
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