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Red Sox Select Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake HS (CA)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 12, 2021 6:20:22 GMT -5
Casas is a nice prospect, but if Mayer isn’t immediately their number 1, then it’s either being overthought or there’s too much hype for the guy who should have been the first pick in the draft. I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 12, 2021 6:20:49 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 12, 2021 7:00:57 GMT -5
Simply ecstatic that the Sox got the one guy nobody really discussed getting because he was the consensus #1-3 pick. WOW, awesome fall. I, like many, will be watching your every move for the forseeable future, good luck. Now I guess the conversation changes to just how good can he be, how long will take it to get there and is he on pace to be a great, should be a lot of fun to prognosticate, follow it and read all about it here.
What a floor of 20+ war, yes I am aware that historically and statistically that isn't reasonable but hey it is what we would all expect from the highest pick in 50 years right. I think our expectations can be unreasonable at a time like this, why not the sky is the limit, have fut with it right. I mean really the Sox just got the best player in the draft right? Yup I am pretty excited.
In regards to money I am probably being naive but I say hey dude you went 4th you get 4th slot money or really close to it. Is he really going to pass up a 7 million dollar pay day to what go to college for a few years and leave those earning years on the table? I doubt it and I hope he agrees also so he can get going this year.
Yes I know those two paragraphs are diametrically opposed.
Now who do we get next at 40? Lets have a historically great draft, one to talk about for years?
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 12, 2021 7:16:39 GMT -5
Casas is a nice prospect, but if Mayer isn’t immediately their number 1, then it’s either being overthought or there’s too much hype for the guy who should have been the first pick in the draft. I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though. I was thinking about this earlier today. If we are going on pure talent alone, there's a good case for Mayer at #1, maybe 1A. But putting him ahead of guys in AAA who have legit shots at being good everyday players (Duran, Downs) just doesn't seem right. I think 4 is his floor, with a good argument for being #2.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2021 7:42:09 GMT -5
Casas is a nice prospect, but if Mayer isn’t immediately their number 1, then it’s either being overthought or there’s too much hype for the guy who should have been the first pick in the draft. I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though. I was covering proximity to majors in the being overthought part of it. I use a simple question when rankings guys. Who would you rather have in the system? Obviously, all the analysis goes into it, like the question you mentioned, but if Mayer’s skill set is what’s being discussed then it’s an easy answer. You want the guy with legitimate franchise player upside at short stop vs the power gutting first baseman in AA who projects as an average regular who’s not hitting for power.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 12, 2021 7:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by geostorm on Jul 12, 2021 7:56:27 GMT -5
Casas is a nice prospect, but if Mayer isn’t immediately their number 1, then it’s either being overthought or there’s too much hype for the guy who should have been the first pick in the draft. I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though. theathletic.com/2701354/2021/07/11/red-sox-ecstatic-after-projected-top-pick-marcelo-mayer-falls-to-them/?source=rss&redirected=1(Behind paywall, w/ Chris' Tweet making it into the article) “Obviously, what we think we’re going to pay Marcelo will impact some of what we do going forward,” Toboni said. “But the goal remains the same, just to build as much value as we can and bring as much value as we can into the system.” The Red Sox believe they’ve done that with their top pick, a high-upside talent who immediately will rank among the top three-or-so prospects in their system. There’s a case for ranking him No. 1. Asked to give big-league comps to the kind of player Mayer could become, Toboni mentioned Dodgers shortstop Corey Seager and the Giants’ Brandon Crawford.
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Post by unitspin on Jul 12, 2021 8:05:19 GMT -5
I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though. I was covering proximity to majors in the being overthought part of it. I use a simple question when rankings guys. Who would you rather have in the system? Obviously, all the analysis goes into it, like the question you mentioned, but if Mayer’s skill set is what’s being discussed then it’s an easy answer. You want the guy with legitimate franchise player upside at short stop vs the power gutting first baseman in AA who projects as an average regular who’s not hitting for power. I agree casas gets some real love on this board. His power hopefully is still developing bcs 4hrs in 160 PA is not going to cut it. Mayer is clearly the higher ranked prospect right out the gate. When mlb.com does their end of the yr rankings id say you will see that on paper.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 12, 2021 8:09:50 GMT -5
This could also be a part of the roster crunch issue that BA recently talked about. Given that there are fewer minor league teams combined with clubs still evaluating draftees and international signings the last couple of years who have limited playing time due to the pandemic, why push some 2021 picks into about a month of playing at the expense of possibly releasing some other recently signed players?
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Post by unitspin on Jul 12, 2021 8:10:54 GMT -5
I don't like the seager or Crawford comparison bcs his stand alone skill is power neither have ever been that type of ss. His defense might be a good comp for them but his hitting tool is more along the line of lindor.
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Post by huskies15 on Jul 12, 2021 8:11:31 GMT -5
Maybe because we were picking in the top 5, but it's very rare that this board is unanimously happy. Very excited to begin following young Marcelo's development.
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Post by evanstonredsox on Jul 12, 2021 8:18:14 GMT -5
In the Pirates’ blurb: “Late word had Mayer demanding an at-slot deal with any pick” Can’t imagine his bonus is anywhere near 8 mil. I’m thinking 7.2/slot at 3 at most, not like he was the slam-dunk number one pick. blogs.fangraphs.com/day-1-draft-recap-2/
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 12, 2021 8:26:03 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts.
First, in terms of prospects, I would group Mayer in with Moncada, Westmoreland in terms of hype. Moncada, obviously, with the 21 million price tag, was a must follow, and Westmoreland signed for $2 million, jumped the GCL to Lowell, where he slashed almost 900 as an 18 YO before he broke his wrist. My thoughts were originally to also include Betts, but he was an afterthought in the draft, who generated hype only after his first season at Lowell (a sub 700 ops), and therefore did not have the immediate spotlight of "check box score as its happening." It's arbitrary, and guess Xander also hit the ground running pretty well stateside by skipping the GCL, but his bonus kept him under the radar his first year. I don't recall Benintendi as being more than an afterthought even though he was the top 10 pick and hit the ground running at Lowell, maybe because he was stuck behind the other prospects. Maybe I'm just misremembering.
Second, this brings home the odd minor league contraction without low minor teams. It sounds like Mayer will not be playing in the GCL, but he's at the same stage as Brainer, and next year, where will Brainer play? Not like he's lighting the GCL on fire in the first two weeks, but will he repeat short season while Mayer goes to Salem?
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Post by jchang on Jul 12, 2021 9:07:23 GMT -5
In the Pirates’ blurb: “Late word had Mayer demanding an at-slot deal with any pick” Can’t imagine his bonus is anywhere near 8 mil. I’m thinking 7.2/slot at 3 at most, not like he was the slam-dunk number one pick. blogs.fangraphs.com/day-1-draft-recap-2/it could be his way of telling the Pirates or other to not use him as a way getting extra room for other draftees, but also that he does not expect the team drafting him to have to pick a bunch of college seniors to make room for him seems like a reasonable person to me, I am also good for slot + 5%
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 12, 2021 9:16:02 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 12, 2021 9:37:06 GMT -5
Some glimpses into the war room:
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 12, 2021 10:01:52 GMT -5
Pudgy guy with Rollie Fingers mustache analyzes (last Friday) Mayer's swing, especially how he uses his pelvis and how he's a good ball-striker:
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Post by benzinger on Jul 12, 2021 10:05:57 GMT -5
5 percent of the total bonus pool of $11,359,600 is $567,980. If they use the full 5% they could get to $7,227,980 or a little above 3rd slot $. They can easily save enough to get close to $7.5 with the late 9th and 10th pick and stay on value for picks 2 through 8. This of course leaves no excess over $125,000 for picks 11 to 20. I think $7.25 might get it done. Leaving between $200,000 and $250,000 potential savings with a few senior signs to spread around. I don’t think this necessarily precludes them from going slot on pick 2 because of the 5% extra. I think they may go under at 2 more for the ability to get a few more values in a deep draft with the later picks. I hate the bonus money rules. Just a way for small markets to not invest where they should and to keep high end talent out of the game. This is so true. What’s $11m in baseball terms anyway? The Red Sox are flushing more than that down the toilet on Dustin Pedroia(and David Price for that matter) this year. Baseball should want more talent in the top of the funnel.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 12, 2021 10:26:15 GMT -5
5 percent of the total bonus pool of $11,359,600 is $567,980. If they use the full 5% they could get to $7,227,980 or a little above 3rd slot $. They can easily save enough to get close to $7.5 with the late 9th and 10th pick and stay on value for picks 2 through 8. This of course leaves no excess over $125,000 for picks 11 to 20. I think $7.25 might get it done. Leaving between $200,000 and $250,000 potential savings with a few senior signs to spread around. I don’t think this necessarily precludes them from going slot on pick 2 because of the 5% extra. I think they may go under at 2 more for the ability to get a few more values in a deep draft with the later picks. I hate the bonus money rules. Just a way for small markets to not invest where they should and to keep high end talent out of the game. I hate billionaires crying poverty. If you cant afford a sports franchise then sell. There are plenty of Steve Cohens out there.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 12, 2021 10:31:58 GMT -5
Watching a FA 2020 Zoom 24-minute interview with Mayer and he talks about his uncle Hector Mayer who played SS in the Mexican League ("a legend") after being in the Cardinals system. He says his whole extended family has long lived on both sides of the Arizona/ Mexico border I think this is the uncle: www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Héctor_MayerHe says the pandemic gave him more time to "work out", but in this or another tape he mentions pushups, sit-ups, medicine balls, and says since the gyms are closed he works out in his bedroom. His room wall has a crucifix (his family has been doing Mass by computer during the pandemic), a USC poster, and a "Mickey Mantle Dr" street sign. The Globe story today says he gave up switch-hitting (like Mantle) in the eighth grade. Has played golf a few times, limited by the expense. Once shot a 107. Played some middle school soccer and basketball.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 12, 2021 10:39:43 GMT -5
I think this reasoning, for one thing, ignores the value of proximity to the majors. It absolutely could be true that Mayer was properly regarded and that Casas and/or Duran are better prospects right now. On pure upside, yeah you'd pick Mayer. There's more to it than upside though. I was covering proximity to majors in the being overthought part of it. I use a simple question when rankings guys. Who would you rather have in the system? Obviously, all the analysis goes into it, like the question you mentioned, but if Mayer’s skill set is what’s being discussed then it’s an easy answer. You want the guy with legitimate franchise player upside at short stop vs the power gutting first baseman in AA who projects as an average regular who’s not hitting for power. Comparing Mayer's upside to Casas' average projection is certainly one way to make Mayer look better! But Casas' upside is all-star slugger, which is not too shabby. And Casas may be slumping right now, but I hope you don't get too down on Mayer when he goes through the inevitable growing pains...
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Post by incandenza on Jul 12, 2021 10:43:42 GMT -5
Watching a FA 2020 Zoom 24-minute interview with Mayer and he talks about his uncle Hector Mayer who played SS in the Mexican League ("a legend") after being in the Cardinals system. He says his whole extended family has long lived on both sides of the Arizona/ Mexico border So cool. Having grown up in the border region myself this makes me like him all the more.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 12, 2021 11:08:19 GMT -5
I hate the bonus money rules. Just a way for small markets to not invest where they should and to keep high end talent out of the game. This is so true. What’s $11m in baseball terms anyway? The Red Sox are flushing more than that down the toilet on Dustin Pedroia(and David Price for that matter) this year. Baseball should want more talent in the top of the funnel. I don’t mind it. It makes the draft more strategic, which creates more interest, I think. But also: $11 million means something different in Boston and in Kansas City. If there weren’t set numbers, the Red Sox (or someone) could say to Leiter, hey, we’ll give you $15 million if you hold out to our second round pick. It might not always work, but it would go a long way to undermining a team like Pittsburgh at #1.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2021 11:57:43 GMT -5
I hate the bonus money rules. Just a way for small markets to not invest where they should and to keep high end talent out of the game. I hate billionaires crying poverty. If you cant afford a sports franchise then sell. There are plenty of Steve Cohens out there. The reality is that the best way to keep payrolls down long term and have success is to invent in amateur talent. The biggest crime of limiting bonus money is keeping talent out of the sport.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2021 11:58:37 GMT -5
This is so true. What’s $11m in baseball terms anyway? The Red Sox are flushing more than that down the toilet on Dustin Pedroia(and David Price for that matter) this year. Baseball should want more talent in the top of the funnel. I don’t mind it. It makes the draft more strategic, which creates more interest, I think. But also: $11 million means something different in Boston and in Kansas City. If there weren’t set numbers, the Red Sox (or someone) could say to Leiter, hey, we’ll give you $15 million if you hold out to our second round pick. It might not always work, but it would go a long way to undermining a team like Pittsburgh at #1. This didn’t happen in all the years the draft was set up this way.
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