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8/30-9/2 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on Sept 3, 2021 11:56:06 GMT -5
Garrett Richards as a reliever: 13.1IP 10.8K/9 2.7BB/9 0.68ERA 1.66FIP 3.52xFIP 3.04SIERA 0.6WAR His WAR as a starter (110IP) is 0.4. Among RS relievers with more than 10 IP he ranks: 1st in ERA 1st in FIP 4th in xFIP 3rd in SIERA If he can gain another ~0.3 WAR throughout the rest of the season, he would be worth what the RS pay him...that's staggering considering everything that happend with him this season...his FIP probably won't stay that low though... Richards has been filthy since the BP demotion right, so what is his future? Just so baffling how a switch went off and he is borderline unhittable, what is his value next year? These are the questions I have. Who is the real Garrett Richards, is he the perfect piggyback starter with Houck who seems great for 4 also. Give me Houck and Richards every 5th day and I think you have a top of the rotation starter. Although it might be better to have a lefty lined up as a piggyback guy with those 2. I feel like a pretty large percentage of starting pitchers would do much better in the bullpen, where velocity plays up, and you don't need to rely on a third pitch, and you're almost exclusively going first time through the order, and the opposing lineup isn't optimized for facing you, and the manager is choosing spots where he thinks you'd be most effective. (This has implications for my thinking on whether relievers of the non-Mariano variety belong in the Hall of Fame.)
Also, it's only 13 innings so far. Hopefully he keeps it up, but we'll see...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2021 12:05:44 GMT -5
I get how enticing this13 inning stretch is, but in the off season, people loved Richards. Then he sucked. Then he seemed to turn it around, and people were back on the Richards train. Then he sucked again. And now he’s… had a good stretch? Turned it around (for reals?)? And we are back on the roller coaster? Hard pass. What did a great mind once say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won’t get fooled again? I think he's pitching with a lot more confidence. As Hunter Renfroe has said at times, it's all in Garrett's head. So is his pitching well inspiring confidence from him or is it the other way around? The chicken or the egg? Either way, I'm hoping that he can be a trustworthy high leverage guy or at least a Whitlock type reliever who can be effective in a close game, but after a year of the Garrett Richards experience I don't see the need for the Sox to pick up his option to repeat it. If he pitches well in relief a smaller deal could be reasonable, but I think somebody will dangle more money and a starting gig....and I'm alright with that. Let it be another team.
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art
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Post by art on Sept 3, 2021 12:16:11 GMT -5
I get how enticing this13 inning stretch is, but in the off season, people loved Richards. Then he sucked. Then he seemed to turn it around, and people were back on the Richards train. Then he sucked again. And now he’s… had a good stretch? Turned it around (for reals?)? And we are back on the roller coaster? Hard pass. What did a great mind once say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won’t get fooled again? ... fool me twice shame on me.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 3, 2021 12:16:24 GMT -5
I get how enticing this13 inning stretch is, but in the off season, people loved Richards. Then he sucked. Then he seemed to turn it around, and people were back on the Richards train. Then he sucked again. And now he’s… had a good stretch? Turned it around (for reals?)? And we are back on the roller coaster? Hard pass. What did a great mind once say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won’t get fooled again? We can hope that our children is not learning that...
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Post by vokuhila on Sept 3, 2021 12:17:18 GMT -5
Yeah it's SSS for sure.
His FB velo is up by 0.5 MPH...that's marginal at best.
I still think it may have to do with his sticky stuff issues. He said it was difficult for him to adjust, because of the limited work he can put in while being expected to start every fifth day. His workload has been reduced...that would give him time to work on stuff off the field.
Very interesting case for sure.
It's still hard to imagine the RS picking up his option. Then again...he costs 8.5M$ next year...that's Ottavino money...let's see what he does till the end of the season.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 3, 2021 12:17:43 GMT -5
I saw only a bit of last night's game, but it was clearly utterly delightful. Let's see if we can keep the fires burning...thinking back on the season, amazing how issues have oscillated - starters, pen, defense, offense - but here we are with only a handful of games left, and if we can get through this COVID mess OK, seems like all parts may be hitting some sort of stride concurrently for the stretch run!
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 3, 2021 12:20:53 GMT -5
Dalbec is up to .241 with a .765 OPS. Great to see obviously as it helps the team and him and his eventual trade value. I still think it's possible that, if Martinez moves on, he might be given the opportunity to rotate between first, third, and DH when Casas makes his way to Boston. Devers and Casas could also take turns as designated hitters in that arrangement with Dalbec spelling them in the field.
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 3, 2021 13:18:03 GMT -5
Great to see obviously as it helps the team and him and his eventual trade value. I still think it's possible that, if Martinez moves on, he might be given the opportunity to rotate between first, third, and DH when Casas makes his way to Boston. Devers and Casas could also take turns as designated hitters in that arrangement with Dalbec spelling them in the field. Not disagreeing but many here point out his defense at 1st is not good so do we really want to see his D at 3rd? Myself I think he is so so, not bad but is he better at 3rd because of experience. Mt other thought beyond him being a good backup at those 3 positions is would his trade value be greater than his utility. Which would depend on the trade. Either way it is great to see him get his season numbers up to a reasonable level. I still think he could be a good player who hits 3o+ HRs but K's 30% of the time rather than the 35% he is at now. If he could have more of his hot streaks than the slumps, which I would expect with experience, he could have a good career.
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Post by voiceofreason on Sept 3, 2021 13:34:35 GMT -5
When I paid Richards some respect for what he is doing and posed the questions about his future I was going to say, not at the current contract option for sure. But release him like they did with Perez and see what happens. If he continues to shine for the rest of the season I say sure if he is willing to embrace the 3,4 inning role and see if he can be stretched out. What is 100-120 innings of solid pitching worth?
How much will he get on the open market and would he want to come back in his current role? He seems like the kind of guy Bloom would want for 100 quality innings. Take his numbers in his current role along with Houck and Whitlock totaling up to 300 innings along with Sale, Eovoldi, maybe ERod and the Sox have 800 quality innings. TBay, and hence Bloom, succeeds by not asking guys to pitch too many innings and excelling the way Richards is right now.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 3, 2021 15:32:40 GMT -5
When I paid Richards some respect for what he is doing and posed the questions about his future I was going to say, not at the current contract option for sure. But release him like they did with Perez and see what happens. If he continues to shine for the rest of the season I say sure if he is willing to embrace the 3,4 inning role and see if he can be stretched out. What is 100-120 innings of solid pitching worth? How much will he get on the open market and would he want to come back in his current role? He seems like the kind of guy Bloom would want for 100 quality innings. Take his numbers in his current role along with Houck and Whitlock totaling up to 300 innings along with Sale, Eovoldi, maybe ERod and the Sox have 800 quality innings. TBay, and hence Bloom, succeeds by not asking guys to pitch too many innings and excelling the way Richards is right now. About 3/4 of a guy who pitches 160-200 innings! Sorry couldn't resist. I'll see myself out.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 3, 2021 16:18:17 GMT -5
I get how enticing this13 inning stretch is, but in the off season, people loved Richards. Then he sucked. Then he seemed to turn it around, and people were back on the Richards train. Then he sucked again. And now he’s… had a good stretch? Turned it around (for reals?)? And we are back on the roller coaster? Hard pass. What did a great mind once say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won’t get fooled again? I think he's pitching with a lot more confidence. As Hunter Renfroe has said at times, it's all in Garrett's head. So is his pitching well inspiring confidence from him or is it the other way around? The chicken or the egg? Either way, I'm hoping that he can be a trustworthy high leverage guy or at least a Whitlock type reliever who can be effective in a close game, but after a year of the Garrett Richards experience I don't see the need for the Sox to pick up his option to repeat it. If he pitches well in relief a smaller deal could be reasonable, but I think somebody will dangle more money and a starting gig....and I'm alright with that. Let it be another team. I concur. I think it's all about confidence with him. He needs to see success to manifest it. When he has failure he's not a guy who can easily pick himself up off the carpet. I underestimated the impact the presence of Chris Sale would have on the entire club. He's a dude who has supreme confidence, in himself, and I think he instills that in those around him. Not only does he take the ball every 5 days, but he's there the other 4 days in everyone's ear, as a cheerleader, motivator, and when need be to hold people accountable. If they re-up Schwarber I get similar vibes from him.
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 3, 2021 16:25:31 GMT -5
I still think it's possible that, if Martinez moves on, he might be given the opportunity to rotate between first, third, and DH when Casas makes his way to Boston. Devers and Casas could also take turns as designated hitters in that arrangement with Dalbec spelling them in the field. Not disagreeing but many here point out his defense at 1st is not good so do we really want to see his D at 3rd? Myself I think he is so so, not bad but is he better at 3rd because of experience. Mt other thought beyond him being a good backup at those 3 positions is would his trade value be greater than his utility. Which would depend on the trade. Either way it is great to see him get his season numbers up to a reasonable level. I still think he could be a good player who hits 3o+ HRs but K's 30% of the time rather than the 35% he is at now. If he could have more of his hot streaks than the slumps, which I would expect with experience, he could have a good career. I'm in ride the streak territory with Bobby D. I'll eat my crow, I wanted him in Worcester at the beginning of August and he had a monster month. Until he proves to me that at least offensively he can put up the numbers he has been over a longer portion of the season, and in multiple campaigns I don't see my opinion on him changing. Don't get me wrong, I love the kid. It's hard not to root for him. The Sox basically put him in a sink or swim scenario with almost no life vests, and he's managed even through adversity to keep his head just above water. In July he looked like the Oboe player on the Titanic, resigned to the fact he was going to drown with the ship, and then in August he showed fight like Rocky versus Ivan Drago. If he could clean up his defense even marginally @ 1B then he could be a net positive player even if he is streaky. I wonder if he, like Devers takes his defensive miscues into the box.
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Post by patford on Sept 3, 2021 16:25:58 GMT -5
I get how enticing this13 inning stretch is, but in the off season, people loved Richards. Then he sucked. Then he seemed to turn it around, and people were back on the Richards train. Then he sucked again. And now he’s… had a good stretch? Turned it around (for reals?)? And we are back on the roller coaster? Hard pass. What did a great mind once say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice won’t get fooled again? It's not about one of us being right. If he continues to pitch well everyone will want him and if he does not then everyone will want him gone. He's not a rookie. He's been around a good amount of time so he needs to get it done now.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Sept 3, 2021 17:13:19 GMT -5
I was teaching Homer's Iliad today and we got to the part where Achilles' friend Patroklos has been killed and the Greeks and Trojans are fighting over his body, and the one who stands astride his dead body and fights off the Trojans is... Menelaos. Menelaos, shown often earlier in the poem to be a weaker fighter, who says things like "people say I am a weak fighter but I'm not," who volunteers at one point to fight Hector in a dual and his brother Agamemenon says 'Ah, bro, shouldn't we maybe pick someone else?" and whose masculinity is also suspect in the poem for letting his wife Helen be carried off by Paris. Menelaos! The one you would least expect to be the hero. Love the Greek epics. More of this please. Where can I get an Odysseus jersey?
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