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4/11-4/13 Red Sox @ Tigers Series Thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 12, 2022 10:40:25 GMT -5
Benintendi remains me and my Wifes current favorite player probably. I hope he wins some MVP's Hey, if Chaim,'s cool with (over)paying JBJ for the money he wouldn't pay him initially then why not buy Beni this off season? I'd be down with that. I mean, keep in mind that in both deals it was more than trading away/not signing the guy. JBJ came back with two very good prospects, and Benintendi with a pu pu platter of guys while he had significant concerns. Whether they want to go get Benintendi depends on whether they re-sign Kiké (which potentially depends on whether Xander leaves and Story slides over to short, although not entirely of course) and how Duran's season goes as well. Duran could very well be Benintendi on a pre-arb contract if things go right.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 10:41:03 GMT -5
hmm... Benni off to a nice start in KC. .538-1-4, 10 TB. Still only 27. gave up on him too soon. Suzuki off to a good start in Chi - .375-1-6. Doesn't feel like we were even in the running. I know our guys will hit. I think I know they will. Eventually. Somehow. You know this kills me because I love Benni but i’ll keep dreaming that Franchy will get called up and take over that 4th OF position and start next year and hit better then him! I think Franchy is the new Rusney Castillo, except with out all that flashy salary. No matter how good he plays, it's unlikely he's added to the 40 man and brought up unless the OF is decimated with injuries. He might be well served spending a year in Japan. And he'd get paid.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 10:48:17 GMT -5
Hey, if Chaim,'s cool with (over)paying JBJ for the money he wouldn't pay him initially then why not buy Beni this off season? I'd be down with that. I mean, keep in mind that in both deals it was more than trading away/not signing the guy. JBJ came back with two very good prospects, and Benintendi with a pu pu platter of guys while he had significant concerns. Whether they want to go get Benintendi depends on whether they re-sign Kiké (which potentially depends on whether Xander leaves and Story slides over to short, although not entirely of course) and how Duran's season goes as well. Duran could very well be Benintendi on a pre-arb contract if things go right. I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 12, 2022 10:51:35 GMT -5
I mean, keep in mind that in both deals it was more than trading away/not signing the guy. JBJ came back with two very good prospects, and Benintendi with a pu pu platter of guys while he had significant concerns. Whether they want to go get Benintendi depends on whether they re-sign Kiké (which potentially depends on whether Xander leaves and Story slides over to short, although not entirely of course) and how Duran's season goes as well. Duran could very well be Benintendi on a pre-arb contract if things go right. I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension If you don't buy into specific prospects that's fine, but saying every sub-top 10 prospect is organizational filler is just wildly inaccurate.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2022 10:57:53 GMT -5
I mean, keep in mind that in both deals it was more than trading away/not signing the guy. JBJ came back with two very good prospects, and Benintendi with a pu pu platter of guys while he had significant concerns. Whether they want to go get Benintendi depends on whether they re-sign Kiké (which potentially depends on whether Xander leaves and Story slides over to short, although not entirely of course) and how Duran's season goes as well. Duran could very well be Benintendi on a pre-arb contract if things go right. I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler."
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2022 11:03:59 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere?
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2022 11:06:15 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere? The prospect scouting scale. Binelas has a ceiling of 6.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 12, 2022 11:06:22 GMT -5
Only two competent LH bats in the lineup. Too many RH bats vs RHP. OPS on the road vs RHP (career)
Kiki .621 Dalbec .657 Vazquez .660 Arroyo .652 I don't think Arroyo will start very often vs. RHP and you can't really do anything about Vazquez/Plawecki. Which side of the plate a C stands on is much less important than what he does crouching behind it.
Dalbec seemed to have figured some things out in Fla., so you give him some rope and see if Casas is ready later on. Yesterday Shaw started; have to wonder how long his leash will be after being given a roster spot based on faith. [N.B. I am fully confident that when Shaw is at his nadir, AC will put him in a situation where all the numbers argue against him and Shaw will hit a game-winning HR.]
Hernandez is so good in CF you just have to hope he improves in that category (about 1/3 of games?). But wasn't the problem that the OF was too LHH? Now we need a LHH platoon in CF? Maybe Duran comes up and forces his way into some playing time...
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 11:07:37 GMT -5
Line-up (Story Still Sick)
Hernández CF, Devers 3B, Bogaerts SS, Martinez DH, Dalbec 1B, Arroyo RF, Verdugo LF, Plawecki C, Araúz 2B
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 12, 2022 11:24:09 GMT -5
Is Brasier 3 for 3 in giving up inherited runners this year? 4 for 6 -- on Opening Day, he came in with the bases loaded and allowed one of the three runners to score. Second appearance he allowed both inherited runners to score and yesterday the one runner. According to the 40-man roster page, he has one option remaining, so he's on track to be sent down when rosters go back to 26.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 11:29:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I always check the SoxProspects scouting report and rankings as I see it as definitive for our guys. First, neither of these guys is even ranked in the Sox Prospects Top 20. Second, Binelas us a third-round guy and Hamilton an eight-round guy. That gives both less than a 2% and 1% chance of becoming an MLB regular, respectively. I love ceilings as much as anyone, but I'm also realistic. I am always anxious to change my mind, but until they show they are more ceiling- than mean-projection, I'll stick with org guys for these two.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 12, 2022 11:31:28 GMT -5
The Red Sox have given up 16 runs through 4 games; 10 of those have scored on HRs. Gotta keep the ball in the ballpark. The Red Sox have scored 12 runs through 4 games. Currently slashing .173/.243/.308 as a team. Do better, Red Sox. LFG.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 12, 2022 11:32:56 GMT -5
I mean, keep in mind that in both deals it was more than trading away/not signing the guy. JBJ came back with two very good prospects, and Benintendi with a pu pu platter of guys while he had significant concerns. Whether they want to go get Benintendi depends on whether they re-sign Kiké (which potentially depends on whether Xander leaves and Story slides over to short, although not entirely of course) and how Duran's season goes as well. Duran could very well be Benintendi on a pre-arb contract if things go right. I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension 7th round pick...
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Post by manfred on Apr 12, 2022 11:33:21 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere? Binelas appears to be the only truly promising get in the combined Benny/Renfroe deal. I think it is fair to be critical of a series of moves that have demonstrably weakened the team — there is *no* arguing our OF is better — while creating long odds on future improvement. A few of those additions are already working their way down the prospect rankings. Will there likely come a day when we say “it was worth fielding a bad OF to have Grant Gambrell on this squad”?
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 11:34:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the quality of the prospects, Chris. Weren't they both sub-top 10 organizational prospects in an organization that is in the bottom quarter of MLB organizational rankings? Not sure either of those guys get more than a cup of coffee unless they undergo some drastic development spikes. Could happen but they seem more like standard org filler right now. I am still a believer in Duran, although I was hoping they would move him back to 2nd to relax him. Just because he has wheels doesn't mean he can run good routes to balls (see: Cordero, Franchy). I do agree with you that LF may be his best spot but I'm saving that for Dalbec once Devers signs his extension 7th round pick... Outlier who's proven he is at least an MLB 4th OF.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2022 11:40:18 GMT -5
I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere? Binelas appears to be the only truly promising get in the combined Benny/Renfroe deal. I think it is fair to be critical of a series of moves that have demonstrably weakened the team — there is *no* arguing our OF is better — while creating long odds on future improvement. A few of those additions are already working their way down the prospect rankings. Will there likely come a day when we say “it was worth fielding a bad OF to have Grant Gambrell on this squad”? I take it you're not high on our 12th-ranked prospect?
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Post by taiwansox on Apr 12, 2022 11:46:15 GMT -5
Is Brasier 3 for 3 in giving up inherited runners this year? 4 for 6 -- on Opening Day, he came in with the bases loaded and allowed one of the three runners to score. Second appearance he allowed both inherited runners to score and yesterday the one runner. According to the 40-man roster page, he has one option remaining, so he's on track to be sent down when rosters go back to 26. Sorry I meant 3 for 3 in appearances he did strand a few in the first Yankees game. He’s never had good peripherals so I think he’s still riding on his 2018 success
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2022 11:48:39 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I always check the SoxProspects scouting report and rankings as I see it as definitive for our guys. First, neither of these guys is even ranked in the Sox Prospects Top 20. Second, Binelas us a third-round guy and Hamilton an eight-round guy. That gives both less than a 2% and 1% chance of becoming an MLB regular, respectively. I love ceilings as much as anyone, but I'm also realistic. I am always anxious to change my mind, but until they show they are more ceiling- than mean-projection, I'll stick with org guys for these two. So what's your theory of Bloom's strategy, then? If these guys are just org filler, do you think Bloom thought JBJ at $12 million was just a better deal than Renfroe at $7 million? Binelas and Hamilton were just thrown in for the heck of it?
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Post by benzinger on Apr 12, 2022 11:51:30 GMT -5
You know this kills me because I love Benni but i’ll keep dreaming that Franchy will get called up and take over that 4th OF position and start next year and hit better then him! I think Franchy is the new Rusney Castillo, except with out all that flashy salary. No matter how good he plays, it's unlikely he's added to the 40 man and brought up unless the OF is decimated with injuries. He might be well served spending a year in Japan. And he'd get paid. I’d like to think of Franchy as the new Wily Mo Pena. BTW, Rusney should have gotten a shot with an MLB club after his deal with the Sox expired. He had a decent skill set and excellent numbers in AAA. He seemed like a good potential 4th OF for someone. He might have been a victim of his own hype and was just viewed as a bust.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 12, 2022 11:53:10 GMT -5
Chaim Bloom definitely did not pay $5 million - the difference in salary between Renfroe and JBJ - on "organizational filler." I always check the SoxProspects scouting report and rankings as I see it as definitive for our guys. First, neither of these guys is even ranked in the Sox Prospects Top 20. Second, Binelas us a third-round guy and Hamilton an eight-round guy. That gives both less than a 2% and 1% chance of becoming an MLB regular, respectively. I love ceilings as much as anyone, but I'm also realistic. I am always anxious to change my mind, but until they show they are more ceiling- than mean-projection, I'll stick with org guys for these two. These debates do get so much faster when one side says that all non-elite prospects are irrelevant in their consideration. Not even a point in arguing, we'll just never see eye-to-eye on deals like this. Not a knock on your view of the world, it might well be better for team building, but it seems as long as Bloom is here you'll always have a problem with a big portion of his deals because he clearly does not see things this way.
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Post by benzinger on Apr 12, 2022 12:00:15 GMT -5
I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere? Binelas appears to be the only truly promising get in the combined Benny/Renfroe deal. I think it is fair to be critical of a series of moves that have demonstrably weakened the team — there is *no* arguing our OF is better — while creating long odds on future improvement. A few of those additions are already working their way down the prospect rankings. Will there likely come a day when we say “it was worth fielding a bad OF to have Grant Gambrell on this squad”? Benintendi needed a change of scenery. That deal made some sense since he just looked lost here. Renfroe was a completely different story, though. He had(arguably) his best season last year and really looked comfortable in Boston. He fit the team well and looked to be on an upward trajectory. I’ll never understand that deal to acquire the worst player in MLB from 2021. Even if they got a decent prospect in the deal it still leaves them with a gaping hole in the OF on the Major League roster. I am a big believer in Bloom, but I hated that trade on day 1(and still do).
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 12, 2022 12:14:30 GMT -5
Binelas appears to be the only truly promising get in the combined Benny/Renfroe deal. I think it is fair to be critical of a series of moves that have demonstrably weakened the team — there is *no* arguing our OF is better — while creating long odds on future improvement. A few of those additions are already working their way down the prospect rankings. Will there likely come a day when we say “it was worth fielding a bad OF to have Grant Gambrell on this squad”? Benintendi needed a change of scenery. That deal made some sense since he just looked lost here. Renfroe was a completely different story, though. He had(arguably) his best season last year and really looked comfortable in Boston. He fit the team well and looked to be on an upward trajectory. I’ll never understand that deal to acquire the worst player in MLB from 2021. Even if they got a decent prospect in the deal it still leaves them with a gaping hole in the OF on the Major League roster. I am a big believer in Bloom, but I hated that trade on day 1(and still do). The JBJ plus prospects for Renfroe in a vacuum makes sense to me as a trade for Bloom as Hamilton and binelas look like good lottery tickets and personally I'm not high on renfroe. I'm even less high on JBJ but if Bloom thought the OF defense needed a boost sure whatever. The problem I have is the deal isn't in a vacuum and I have to watch JBJ bat when he quite frankly stinks. So the folly was not replacing renfroe during the offseason and having to force Cora to basically pencil JBJ the lineup almost every day.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 12, 2022 12:16:20 GMT -5
I always check the SoxProspects scouting report and rankings as I see it as definitive for our guys. First, neither of these guys is even ranked in the Sox Prospects Top 20. Second, Binelas us a third-round guy and Hamilton an eight-round guy. That gives both less than a 2% and 1% chance of becoming an MLB regular, respectively. I love ceilings as much as anyone, but I'm also realistic. I am always anxious to change my mind, but until they show they are more ceiling- than mean-projection, I'll stick with org guys for these two. So what's your theory of Bloom's strategy, then? If these guys are just org filler, do you think Bloom thought JBJ at $12 million was just a better deal than Renfroe at $7 million? Binelas and Hamilton were just thrown in for the heck of it? I have no idea on Bloom's strategy with this trade - or the Benintendi trade - and I think I said when they were done. So far I am not impressed with Bloom or his strategy - I think he got lucky last year, didn't improve the team this year and is really looking at serious deficits next year, particularly with starting pitching, no matter how much money he'll have to spend because the market is really thin. But I am a realist, and if some of these moves bear out I'll become a fan. Regarding the Benintendi trade, I heard a lot of chatter that Beni "needed a change in scenery" but I didn't buy that spin. It was a salary dump, and not even a smart one. He essentially had one true down year (I reject anyone who uses 2020 as definitive in any way other than injuries - a ridiculous, short season with too many external variables). I also recall him saying when he got to KC that he went back to the swing he had in his rookie year. I honestly think the only "change in scenery" was moving from one org that was trying to make him something he wasn't (a 30+HR a year guy) to another that let him play his game and was rewarded for it. I think that trade was Bloom dumping salary and thinking he/the org could "fix" Franchy. It was somewhere between ill-advised and hubris. I still can't figure out the Renfroe move. I love JBJ, but at this point I think he's an overpaid spot starter/late-inning defensive replacement/4th OF. I genuinely hope I am wrong and he goes back to being a .300 OBP/20 HR guy. I think Binelas and Hamilton were sub-Top 10 prospects in an org ranked in the bottom tier of MLB minor league org prospects and worth it for a team like Milwaukee to save $5M. It was like if the Sox traded two guys from their sub-15 prospects. Some of us would groused, but for the most part, those guys are pure lottery tickets. Intriguing with potential, but a loooooong way to climb to ever crack the roster as more than cup-of-coffee guys, never mind MLB regulars. As for wasting $7M, talk to me about Wacha...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 12, 2022 12:16:57 GMT -5
I guess I'm missing it but where does it call Binelas an impact bat? I see platoon bat, but that's it. So maybe I'm missing it somewhere? Binelas appears to be the only truly promising get in the combined Benny/Renfroe deal. I think it is fair to be critical of a series of moves that have demonstrably weakened the team — there is *no* arguing our OF is better — while creating long odds on future improvement. A few of those additions are already working their way down the prospect rankings. Will there likely come a day when we say “it was worth fielding a bad OF to have Grant Gambrell on this squad”? I like Hamilton more than Binelas, since the day of the trade. You can't coach speed and he also has baserunning instincts. Makes contact, gets on base, can get to that speed. Good glove, according to the scouting reports.
With a little seasoning he's a more valuable UT/PR than Arauz. With a little more, maybe a starting 2B who steals 30+ bases.
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Post by kjkramer on Apr 12, 2022 12:18:26 GMT -5
I am starting to thi k the Sox needed another 10 days of ST. They just do not seem consistent with the bats all. Now they seem to be pressing a bit to add to the issue?
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