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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 13:05:43 GMT -5
So far, Iglesias has continued to swing the bat well, going 9 for 14. It is early, and he could be in a good streak, but does anyone think that he is beginning to learn to hit at the MLB level and deserves the everyday job even when Drew is back? It would be very difficult to option him with the way he is hitting right now. Then again, where would Drew go? Reply for your thoughts.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 7, 2013 13:10:41 GMT -5
I was never a fan of giving 9 million to a broken down Stephen Drew and would have sunk or swim to see what I had with Iglesias with little expectations for this club. This team could have spent 9 million more efficiently than on Drew even if it was for one year.
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Post by njsox on Apr 7, 2013 13:19:24 GMT -5
So far, Iglesias has continued to swing the bat well, going 9 for 14. It is early, and he could be in a good streak, but does anyone think that he is beginning to learn to hit at the MLB level and deserves the everyday job even when Drew is back? It would be very difficult to option him with the way he is hitting right now. Then again, where would Drew go? Reply for your thoughts. I think Stephen Drew will serve the Sox well over the course of the season. His high offensive ceiling is worth rolling the dice on. Being a lefty, he adds some balance to the Sox lineup and if he produces at an above average offensive level I think this team could be special. He is also no slouch defensively. Even with Iglesieas producing now I think he would be well served to spend some more time in AAA especially after gainng some confidence by producing at the major league level. Best case scenario would be for Drew to earn a qualifying offer from the Sox and maybe get a pick for him when he leaves and then let Iglesias start his legacy next year.
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Post by jmei on Apr 7, 2013 13:26:49 GMT -5
Like I mentioned in one of the series threads, almost all his hits have been of the ground ball variety (and most have been pulled)-- a couple bunt hits, a couple infield hits, a couple through the hole, a couple down the left field line. He is certainly making better contact than he was last year, but he hasn't been transcendent or anything.
His home-to-first speed is good enough that he'll be able to continue to leg out a few cheap drag bunts hits and infield hits, but he'll still struggle with plate discipline (no walks yet) and hit for minimal power. Because of those limitations, it's crucial that he keeps his batting average reasonably high, and to do so, he needs to continue to make good contact and avoid strikeouts. He'll probably never be anything other than an empty batting average guy, but if he keeps that BA closer to .270 as opposed to .230, he'll be a major league starter (whether that will be in Boston or elsewhere will still need to be determined, however).
Drew, when healthy, will slide in as the starter and Iglesias will be optioned to AAA even if he continues to hit well. The front office has made a commitment to Drew and a handful of infield hits/bunt singles isn't going to change their mind on Iglesias so quickly. More importantly, Iglesias still needs to prove he can stay healthy over a whole season-- his PA totals in the last three seasons have been 284, 393, and 482. If he stays healthy and productive in AAA this year, the SS spot will be his to lose next year (and he'll obviously continue to be called upon if Drew is injured this year).
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Post by ray88h66 on Apr 7, 2013 14:32:41 GMT -5
I think that's a pretty good overview of the situation, jmei. I do think Iggy will hit enough to be an above average starting SS. I hope it's with Boston.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 14:50:04 GMT -5
bogaerts will be knocking on the door next year. if iglesias can put his offensive game together, and with WMB at 3B, does that mean that xb moves to left field? where does that put brentz? kalish? will ellsbury be back after next year? im still not putting any money down on iggy. bogaerts may be able to be at ss in the early years, but maybe not years down the road. brentz and kalish still can be very productive players. the infield and outfield situation could get interesting soon, but i am all for the young guys taking over.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Apr 7, 2013 14:53:19 GMT -5
I was never a fan of giving 9 million to a broken down Stephen Drew and would have sunk or swim to see what I had with Iglesias with little expectations for this club. This team could have spent 9 million more efficiently than on Drew even if it was for one year. That would leave you one injury away from Pedro Ciriaco being a full time player with no viable backup. Jmei already mentioned Iglesias's issues staying healthy so far and shortstop is a position which sees a lot of injuries. I wanted Drew from the beginning of the offseason, I thought it would be for around $7m but the team was in the position to overspend...it's not like they can reallocate their extra money on the draft and international free agents. Acquiring depth at a position that's extremely scarce isn't the worst thing. The Ortiz contract was more inefficient, even if it was a lifetime achievement deal.
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Post by jmei on Apr 7, 2013 14:59:01 GMT -5
bogaerts will be knocking on the door next year. if iglesias can put his offensive game together, and with WMB at 3B, does that mean that xb moves to left field? where does that put brentz? kalish? im still not putting any money down on iggy. bogaerts may be able to be at ss in the early years, but maybe not years down the road. brentz and kalish still can be very productive players. the infield and outfield situation could get interesting soon, but i am all for the young guys. You're looking way too far into the future. I know it's tempting to see how all the pieces fit together a few years down the road, but those problems will sort themselves out in due time.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 7, 2013 15:07:43 GMT -5
bogaerts will be knocking on the door next year. if iglesias can put his offensive game together, and with WMB at 3B, does that mean that xb moves to left field? where does that put brentz? kalish? will ellsbury be back after next year? im still not putting any money down on iggy. bogaerts may be able to be at ss in the early years, but maybe not years down the road. brentz and kalish still can be very productive players. the infield and outfield situation could get interesting soon, but i am all for the young guys taking over. That's pretty far down the road, but it is interesting to think about now. WMB seems like he'll stick a while at 3B, and I'm not sure if it's best to move him 1B, even if XB does seem best suited for 3B over the course of his career. XB in left field would seem to be a fit, considering JBJ will be in CF long-term with Ellsbury having virtually no chance of returning. Still, it does seem like a little bit of a waste to stash a capable infielder like XB in LF. I'm sure he could pick it up well though. As for SS, I'm pretty supportive of the Drew signing, and the decision to immediately reinstate him as the starting SS. Iggy has been impressive, but we all know that average is going to sink to .260 territory at best (I see it being lower), and the plate discipline isn't good enough. That's not anything we didn't know, and I absolutely love his defense, but from a strictly offensive standpoint, it will be nice to replace him with a solid all around left handed hitter who has a great eye for pitches. As much as Drew may seem overpaid, his 1-year deal really doesn't hurt us at all.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 8, 2013 9:12:57 GMT -5
Iggy has been impressive against what we expected. As pointed out his hits haven't been driven, but its improvement. As for the future, there are a number of possibilities and options, which is good. Lets not put Bogaerts in the lineup just yet. Show me a full year at AA and higher.
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Post by tjb21 on Apr 8, 2013 9:39:06 GMT -5
I was never a fan of giving 9 million to a broken down Stephen Drew and would have sunk or swim to see what I had with Iglesias with little expectations for this club. This team could have spent 9 million more efficiently than on Drew even if it was for one year. That would leave you one injury away from Pedro Ciriaco being a full time player with no viable backup. Jmei already mentioned Iglesias's issues staying healthy so far and shortstop is a position which sees a lot of injuries. I wanted Drew from the beginning of the offseason, I thought it would be for around $7m but the team was in the position to overspend... it's not like they can reallocate their extra money on the draft and international free agents. Acquiring depth at a position that's extremely scarce isn't the worst thing. The Ortiz contract was more inefficient, even if it was a lifetime achievement deal. I think these 2 points are exactly right. Iglesias really hadn't earned the right to be the starting SS before this season, and getting Drew on a 1 year deal for that money was a good move all around (even if he struggles to fully regain his pre-injury form). Where else would the Red Sox spend the $9 more effectively?
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Post by sdiaz1 on Apr 8, 2013 12:03:01 GMT -5
I believe that Iglesias has shown us many of the things that we could have reasonably wanted to see from him so far in the brief season.
From a scouting perspective he has demonstrated that he does in fact have the much reported but little seen bat speed, that sox scouts have been telling us about for a while, this has allowed him to turn on several pitches and make solid contact. He also has shown us that while his speed is not anything special, that he has excellent accleration and quickness allowing him to get from home to first in short time. In this way he reminds me of Luis Castillo, another guy who was not conventionally fast, but would leg out 30-40 infield hits a season. Lastly Iglesias has also shown that he can in fact bunt. I know that this will make several people smirk and shake their heads, and I whole-heartedly agree with the mantra that the only productive out is made when your guy is on the mound. But his two bunts were beautiful, expertly done, and were placed with the intention of getting on base. Players with the ability to bunt for base hits without having 70-80 speed are rare, but from Iglesias' two attempts this week, I could envision him using it as a tool to sneak in an extra dozen or so hits a season.
Statistically, not much really matters at this point with the sample being soo miniscule. I would point out however that he has lowered his O-Swing% by 9% according to PitchFX (Granted BIS says the xact oppossite - so really that is SSS noise) additionaly while I initially thouht that he had been doing a better job at seeing pitches this season, he is actually seeing slightly less pitches (granted it does seem like everything in the zone he swings at he also hits) than he did last year, and his K% has plummeted 17%. Again with the SSS, I would honestly ignore the K and BB rates from both his 18PA this season and 77 PA last season and focus on the almost 400 he tallied in Pawtucket where he walked in 7% of his PA's and K'ed in 12% of the time.
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Post by onbase on Apr 8, 2013 17:53:29 GMT -5
Speaking as a fan - after watching Jose for a week, how do you stand watching anyone else at SS?
I guess I'm about to find out starting Wednesday, but much as I'll love watching him in AA, I'll worry about Xander when he's in Pawtucket and busting down the door.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 8, 2013 22:22:49 GMT -5
I hate when people (not really here but generally) say that the salary of Drew means he is going to start all year. The money spent on Drew indicates what the Red Sox thoughts are on Iglesias and Drew respectively, as someone pointed out in another thread, and Jmei noted above. Nevertheless, since that 9 million is a sunk cost, if Iglesias demonstrates that he is ready to be a contributor later in the year and Drew is playing poorly, I would expect Iglesias to claim the starting shortstop position. The relative salaries should be immaterial to the actual decision, since money is going to be spent regardless of who plays.
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Post by Luke Lavoie on Apr 9, 2013 0:21:02 GMT -5
As much as we would all love for Iglesias to start asserting himself offensively, I think we can safely chalk this up to a small sample size.
I was a big fan of the Drew signing. He should be the guy unless he a) can't stay healthy or b) doesn't hit enough. Both scenarios are not out of the realm of possibility by any means.
If Iglesias does find his way as the everyday SS I don't think there's any reason to expect more than a .250 average. Not sure if he has a long track record of bunting for hits or if he's just getting lucky. If it's the former I'd like to see him attempt a bunt at least once or twice a week.
Seems to me the most likely outcome for Iglesias is a strong defensive SS who hits enough for a middling ML club (probably in the NL) to justify starting him.
I know comps are a tricky business but can he be Brendan Ryan? You could do worse than Brendan Ryan.
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Post by awall on Apr 9, 2013 8:08:56 GMT -5
If Iglesias could hit .250 for the next 5-6 years, I'll be quite happy to watch him every day. Drew could easily be moved during the season if the club decides to stick with Iglesias.
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Post by larrycook on Apr 9, 2013 13:46:32 GMT -5
That would leave you one injury away from Pedro Ciriaco being a full time player with no viable backup. Jmei already mentioned Iglesias's issues staying healthy so far and shortstop is a position which sees a lot of injuries. I wanted Drew from the beginning of the offseason, I thought it would be for around $7m but the team was in the position to overspend... it's not like they can reallocate their extra money on the draft and international free agents. Acquiring depth at a position that's extremely scarce isn't the worst thing. The Ortiz contract was more inefficient, even if it was a lifetime achievement deal. I think these 2 points are exactly right. Iglesias really hadn't earned the right to be the starting SS before this season, and getting Drew on a 1 year deal for that money was a good move all around (even if he struggles to fully regain his pre-injury form). Where else would the Red Sox spend the $9 more effectively? If Drew is struggling at what point do the Sox turn SS back over to Iglaisias? It took major league pitchers about ten at bats to figure out that Bradley can't hit anything on the inner third of the plate, but through 6 games, they have not been able to keep Iglasias off the bases. His swing looks a bit tighter this year and he seems a bit stronger. A little more discipline and maybe Iglasias can be a consistent 220 to 240 hitter to go along with tremndous hands in the field.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 10, 2013 8:40:51 GMT -5
Iglesias sent to Pawtuckett and Drew will be activated for tonight's game. Iggy shouldn't bother renting an apartment as he will likely be back up within the next couple of weeks when Drew breaks down again.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 10, 2013 9:42:54 GMT -5
Iglesias sent to Pawtuckett and Drew will be activated for tonight's game. Iggy shouldn't bother renting an apartment as he will likely be back up within the next couple of weeks when Drew breaks down again. Stephen is not J.D. The only injuries he's had since being drafted that have caused him to miss more than 10 games are hamstring strains in 2005 and 2009 and the horrible ankle injury (seriously, go watch the video) that cost him most of 2010 and 2011. He got to 600 PAs every year from 2006-2010. Don't hold J.D's history--only got to 600 PAs once in his pro career from 1997-2011 (this includes minors)--against Stephen because they share genes.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 10, 2013 10:31:07 GMT -5
I've absolutely loved watching Iglesias' defense. The left side of that infield has been locked down tighter than a nunnery. And the hitting sample has also been tantalizing. But while the bat speed is there, the BABIP has been way out of whack. This is not who he is, but it is a promise of a little of what might be.
Right now, Drew gives the Sox a nice right/left balance, one that will get even better when Ortiz is back in the batter's box. But I really hope we see Igglesias up sooner rather than later. Watching him play shortstop is just a joy.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 10, 2013 11:01:03 GMT -5
Stephen is not J.D. The only injuries he's had since being drafted that have caused him to miss more than 10 games are hamstring strains in 2005 and 2009 and the horrible ankle injury (seriously, go watch the video) that cost him most of 2010 and 2011. He got to 600 PAs every year from 2006-2010. Don't hold J.D's history--only got to 600 PAs once in his pro career from 1997-2011 (this includes minors)--against Stephen because they share genes. I agree with everything here except for the part that says to watch the video of Drew being injured. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being Kevin Ware, it's a solid 8.5.
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Post by nunibunny on Apr 10, 2013 11:06:48 GMT -5
I've absolutely loved watching Iglesias' defense. The left side of that infield has been locked down tighter than a nunnery. And the hitting sample has also been tantalizing. But while the bat speed is there, the BABIP has been way out of whack. This is not who he is, but it is a promise of a little of what might be. Right now, Drew gives the Sox a nice right/left balance, one that will get even better when Ortiz is back in the batter's box. But I really hope we see Igglesias up sooner rather than later. Watching him play shortstop is just a joy. I enjoy watching Iglesias' D also - I look forward to the day he is back up here or somewhere else for good. srpat (aka nunibunny)
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Post by mainesox on Apr 10, 2013 11:35:12 GMT -5
Stephen is not J.D. The only injuries he's had since being drafted that have caused him to miss more than 10 games are hamstring strains in 2005 and 2009 and the horrible ankle injury (seriously, go watch the video) that cost him most of 2010 and 2011. He got to 600 PAs every year from 2006-2010. Don't hold J.D's history--only got to 600 PAs once in his pro career from 1997-2011 (this includes minors)--against Stephen because they share genes. I agree with everything here except for the part that says to watch the video of Drew being injured. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being Kevin Ware, it's a solid 8.5. Yeah seriously, don't do it, it's a trap. It makes me physically ill to watch it...
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 10, 2013 13:52:22 GMT -5
What were you guys saying . . . I guess I had passed out just thinking about what that video would look like.
I have no stomach for that stuff. I was one that did throw up while watching the replay of Kevin Ware's injury. (I didn't see the play live - only a guy injured and wanted to see what happened - the announcers at that stage were not saying anything about the severity of the injury or the replay). I even remember watching the Monday Night Footbal game where Joe Thiessman's leg was cut in half.
I'm out.
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Post by patrmac04 on Apr 10, 2013 15:01:36 GMT -5
Am I the only one seeing Iglesias being showcased for a future trade
Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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