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4/19-4/21 Red Sox vs. Royals Series Thread
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 15:58:32 GMT -5
I just can't stand Salty hitting in the middle third of the lineup. To me, he's a garbage hitter with great power. I swear he just gets lucky or makes some good guesses on some of his walks, because he has such a terrible, high k, low-OBP plate approach. Couple that with his substandard defense and terrible pitch framing, and I'm just not that big on him as a player. I think he's a great guy, but I hope this is our last season with him. Anyways, I'm not trying to trash Salty, but my point is that he really shouldn't be hitting 5th or 6th. I honestly think Gomes, Carp, and WMB and Drew (once those two figure out their own problems, they're better hitters than Salty) need to move up over Salty, regardless of the handiness of the pitcher. Well, maybe not Drew for a while, but certainly the others. THIS. Saltalamacchia hit 25 home runs last season. That’s about all you can positively attribute to him. Salty threw out just 18.4% (18/98) of attempted base stealers, good for second to last in baseball among catchers with 90 starts under their belts (wow Rod Barajas, just wow). Salty has also surrendered 32 combined passed balls over the past two seasons. Offensively, he’s yet to reach base at a .300 clip in his two year Red Sox tenure, and has posted alarming K rates above 30% both years. Honestly, there is no worse feeling than having Salty come to the plate with runners on base in a clutch situation. It's just awful. I honestly have no idea why Farrell hasn't given David Ross more opportunities. There are so many damn reasons why Ross should be the starting catcher IMO. Pretty much how I feel. As for Ross, I do think he is really served best starting no more than 50% of the time, but I get where you're coming from. He's a terrific receiver all-around, and even though he doesn't have a great bat, I still feel better with him up just because of his approach. The thing with Salty is, he's not one dimensional towards hitting or catching like some catchers where he excels at one of them and struggles with the other aspect. He just sucks at both. Anyone who justifies him as an average hitter due to his power just doesn't get it. This isn't John Jaso who is a below-average receiver who has great AB's. This is a clunky catcher with terrible (and I mean terrible) pitch framing, a crappy arm, no plate discipline, and some great power. In other news, I got a good laugh out of this during Dempster's post-game interview: Reporter asks "Escobar's home run in the 1st, what happened with that?" Dempster: "Uh.. I threw a pitch out over the plate, he hit it out."
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 21, 2013 16:01:43 GMT -5
Reporter asks "Escobar's home run in the 1st, what happened with that?" Dempster: "Uh.. I threw a pitch out over the plate, he hit it out." It's totally the internet's fault that newspapers are dying.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 16:07:13 GMT -5
Reporter asks "Escobar's home run in the 1st, what happened with that?" Dempster: "Uh.. I threw a pitch out over the plate, he hit it out." It's totally the internet's fault that newspapers are dying. I appreciate the media in some ways, but I always wonder how I'd feel if I was in Farrell's position everyday, or any other player being interviewed with questions like that. Imagine, on a daily basis, just being asked the dumbest questions with no substance, and just having to answer with "I felt good" or "He picked us up" or "made a mistake." I feel like after a while I would get so angry just at the lack of decent questions, but I guess you need to feel for the media too? Or do you? Surely they can come up with better things to ask, or maybe they can't and are just trying to probe guys to say stuff. I don't know, I just know exactly what the player/manager/coach is going to say as soon as the question is asked with so many of those uncultivated inquiries, and that's not a good thing.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 16:10:59 GMT -5
I just can't stand Salty hitting in the middle third of the lineup. To me, he's a garbage hitter with great power. I swear he just gets lucky or makes some good guesses on some of his walks, because he has such a terrible, high k, low-OBP plate approach. Couple that with his substandard defense and terrible pitch framing, and I'm just not that big on him as a player. I think he's a great guy, but I hope this is our last season with him. Anyways, I'm not trying to trash Salty, but my point is that he really shouldn't be hitting 5th or 6th. I honestly think Gomes, Carp, and WMB and Drew (once those two figure out their own problems, they're better hitters than Salty) need to move up over Salty, regardless of the handiness of the pitcher. Well, maybe not Drew for a while, but certainly the others. I feel a little for Dempster. He's really pitched well, racking up a surprising amount of K's, and can go deep into games. If Drew reacted a little sooner and snagged that Perez liner, it would have been a much better line for Dempster, and hopefully a better result of the game overall. Still probably wouldn't change Salty swinging 2-0 on a guy who had thrown, what, 7 or 8 straight balls? Oh my god. He's promoted for game 2! Seriously, I would put Carp there. Even if he was 0 for 6 on the year, let alone his Cleveland game. Ellsbury CF Nava RF Pedroia 2B Napoli 1B Saltalamacchia DH Middlebrooks 3B Carp LF Ross C Ciriaco SS Webster RHP.
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Post by huskies15 on Apr 21, 2013 16:16:28 GMT -5
if salty goes K, 1-3, K in this game im calling BC and requesting that salty transition from #5 hitter to released
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 21, 2013 16:17:05 GMT -5
I appreciate the media in some ways, but I always wonder how I'd feel if I was in Farrell's position everyday, or any other player being interviewed with questions like that. Imagine, on a daily basis, just being asked the dumbest questions with no substance, and just having to answer with "I felt good" or "He picked us up" or "made a mistake." I feel like after a while I would get so angry just at the lack of decent questions, but I guess you need to feel for the media too? Or do you? Surely they can come up with better things to ask, or maybe they can't and are just trying to probe guys to say stuff. I don't know, I just know exactly what the player/manager/coach is going to say as soon as the question is asked with so many of those uncultivated inquiries, and that's not a good thing. I think they're just stuck in a paradigm that's no longer relevant in the current media environment. No one needs a beat reporter to find out "what happened" on that home run anymore. They can get a reply of it on their phone instantly and break down the pitch itself in incredibly granular detail with pitchF/X if they're actually curious. There's a million examples of this, where the information that we used to rely on beat reporters for is now available in so many other, better ways. This isn't to say that there's no point in having reporters in the clubhouse and traveling with the team. But if the institution is going to survive, they need to seriously re-think the roll of those reporters. They can't just continue to do the same thing they've been doing for 50 years and then complain about Twitter when people don't care anymore.
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 21, 2013 16:18:26 GMT -5
[/quote]Oh my god. He's promoted for game 2! Seriously, I would put Carp there. Even if he was 0 for 6 on the year, let alone his Cleveland game.
Ellsbury CF Nava RF Pedroia 2B Napoli 1B Saltalamacchia DH Middlebrooks 3B Carp LF Ross C Ciriaco SS
Webster RHP.[/quote]
Honestly, if we still had Josh Beckett I'd put him there. At least Webster is throwing to a legitimate catcher.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 21, 2013 16:25:10 GMT -5
It's totally the internet's fault that newspapers are dying. If you don't ask the question you definitely won't get the answer. If he hadn't asked that question how else could it have been framed? "Can you talk a little about Escobar's home run in the first?" "What pitch did you throw to Escobar on that home run?" The point is as a reporter questions need to be asked and sometimes there's no good way to ask it. It just so happens that Dempster didn't feel like talking about it. Sometimes you ask that question and the pitcher will tell you "Well the scouting report said he struggled with (insert pitch description here) so I tried to sneak one past him and he just made a good adjustment. I already told Webster the deal though, if he gets beat there too he's buying me dinner." And there you've got your quote. Don't mean to go off on you, but I studied journalism for a planned career in sports journalism and know how tough these guys have it.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 16:29:12 GMT -5
I think they're just stuck in a paradigm that's no longer relevant in the current media environment. No one needs a beat reporter to find out "what happened" on that home run anymore. They can get a reply of it on their phone instantly and break down the pitch itself in incredibly granular detail with pitchF/X if they're actually curious. There's a million examples of this, where the information that we used to rely on beat reporters for is now available in so many other, better ways. This isn't to say that there's no point in having reporters in the clubhouse and traveling with the team. But if the institution is going to survive, they need to seriously re-think the roll of those reporters. They can't just continue to do the same thing they've been doing for 50 years and then complain about Twitter when people don't care anymore. Well said. I do think many beat writers have adapted well to the new way of reporting, utilizing Twitter, etc. Mostly, I'm just perplexed by some of the questions that just make you scratch your head and ask if the reporter knows what baseball is. It shouldn't be that hard to switch it up and ask some more substantive questions. At least Webster is throwing to a legitimate catcher.[/quote] I thought the same thing. It's definitely a huge plus -- one that many probably won't report/realize -- to have a young and anxious starter throwing to a guy as comforting, educated, and skilled as Ross. Really looking forward to seeing what Webster brings tonight. This offense better get some things going against Guthrie.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 16:34:59 GMT -5
It's totally the internet's fault that newspapers are dying. If you don't ask the question you definitely won't get the answer. If he hadn't asked that question how else could it have been framed? "Can you talk a little about Escobar's home run in the first?" "What pitch did you throw to Escobar on that home run?" The point is as a reporter questions need to be asked and sometimes there's no good way to ask it. It just so happens that Dempster didn't feel like talking about it. Sometimes you ask that question and the pitcher will tell you "Well the scouting report said he struggled with (insert pitch description here) so I tried to sneak one past him and he just made a good adjustment. I already told Webster the deal though, if he gets beat there too he's buying me dinner." And there you've got your quote. Don't mean to go off on you, but I studied journalism for a planned career in sports journalism and know how tough these guys have it. I acknowledge that it's tough. But it was a terrible hanging fast ball right over the plate. Literally a meatball. The way that reporter asked the question, he might as well have been saying "So you threw a garbage meatball right over the plate that any MLB hitter could crush. Why'd you do that?" It's obviously a huge mistake pitch. I know many of us on here know more than the average audience to popular media outlets, but this particular question and and the issue with the pitch just seem so elementary. Obviously if they aren't going to ask any of these seemingly simple questions, I get that you aren't going to get the "quote" you want. But you can't deny that some of these reporters could step it up a notch or re-evaluate what they're looking for when questioning reporters. There's always going to be reporters to ask the simple things that players probably get annoyed answer. I'd just like to see more reporters change up a bit.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 21, 2013 16:47:53 GMT -5
I acknowledge that it's tough. But it was a terrible hanging fast ball right over the plate. Literally a meatball. The way that reporter asked the question, he might as well have been saying "So you threw a garbage meatball right over the plate that any MLB hitter could crush. Why'd you do that?" It's obviously a huge mistake pitch. I know many of us on here know more than the average audience to popular media outlets, but this particular question and and the issue with the pitch just seem so elementary. Obviously if they aren't going to ask any of these seemingly simple questions, I get that you aren't going to get the "quote" you want. But you can't deny that some of these reporters could step it up a notch or re-evaluate what they're looking for when questioning reporters. There's always going to be reporters to ask the simple things that players probably get annoyed answer. I'd just like to see more reporters change up a bit. If you watched the game are you reading the game story? I'd say that the game recaps are primarily read by those who couldn't/didn't watch the game. So getting a pitchers opinion on what ended up being a fairly important home run is something that needs to be done. We as "hardcore" fans don't need these questions answered, sure. But a casual fan who may or may not have watched today's game might be curious about that pitch. You say "There's always going to be reporters to ask the simple things that players probably get annoyed answer," then act incredulous that someone asked the question. This is a basic, surface level question to ask but I don't see any harm in asking it. It just so happens that Ryan Dempster either isn't the kind of guy to give you anything more than that or didn't feel like giving any more than that. I just don't think that newspapers as a whole should be villified because some guy asked a question that honestly should be asked.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 21, 2013 16:53:38 GMT -5
It's totally the internet's fault that newspapers are dying. If you don't ask the question you definitely won't get the answer. If he hadn't asked that question how else could it have been framed? "Can you talk a little about Escobar's home run in the first?" "What pitch did you throw to Escobar on that home run?" The point is as a reporter questions need to be asked and sometimes there's no good way to ask it. It just so happens that Dempster didn't feel like talking about it. Sometimes you ask that question and the pitcher will tell you "Well the scouting report said he struggled with (insert pitch description here) so I tried to sneak one past him and he just made a good adjustment. I already told Webster the deal though, if he gets beat there too he's buying me dinner." And there you've got your quote. Don't mean to go off on you, but I studied journalism for a planned career in sports journalism and know how tough these guys have it. It needs to be asked? Why? If anyone actually cares, they can look up every possible dimension of that pitch before the game even ends. And while you've imagined a potentially interesting response to that question, but how often do you get that from players? It's incredibly rare. These guys are trained to not give interesting answers, and they're certainly told not to reveal internal scouting reports. And I get that being a beat reports is a tough job. It's REALLY tough. But so what? Being a buggy whip maker might have been a tough job, too. I mean, you can assert the importance of the job all you want, but ultimately if you can't get enough people to read it, it's not a viable enterprise. Oh, and and this of course is obligatory:
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Post by bluechip on Apr 21, 2013 17:04:39 GMT -5
Will Middlebrooks is such a terrible hitter at this moment. He really needs to be hitting 8th or 9th. He his terrible plate discipline, which was evident last year, is really being exploited by pitchers at this time.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 21, 2013 17:08:39 GMT -5
It needs to be asked? Why? If anyone actually cares, they can look up every possible dimension of that pitch before the game even ends. And while you've imagined a potentially interesting response to that question, but how often do you get that from players? It's incredibly rare. These guys are trained to not give interesting answers, and they're certainly told not to reveal internal scouting reports. And I get that being a beat reports is a tough job. It's REALLY tough. But so what? Being a buggy whip maker might have been a tough job, too. I mean, you can assert the importance of the job all you want, but ultimately if you can't get enough people to read it, it's not a viable enterprise. Again, you're assuming that every baseball fan is as dedicated and educated as your average SoxProspects.com forum member is, which just isn't the case. You forget that the media is there to inform the members of the public that aren't as educated or dedicated as we are. You're right, it is pretty rare that a player gives an insight into the game (not really, but we'll go with it) but if you never ask then you are 100% assured that you will never get it. In which case you may as well sign up for dental school, because you're out of a job. And your assertion that players are told not to reveal scouting reports may well be the case but if Dempster said something he thought about the hitter he would not be the first person to do so. What you're saying in your last paragraph is just silly. What you're basically saying is that there is no need for anyone to ask athletes about a game they just played in. All that was said above was that "a reporter" asked Dempster about a pitch. We don't know who this person writes for or if we can make the ridiculous assumption that their writing appears only in physical newspapers. Again, you're assuming that the only people who follow baseball are us "hardcore" fans who don't need to be told anything about a game and can derive everything we'd need to know from PitchFX (which is downright stupid. I don't mean to be offensive but if you really think everyone and their mother understands PitchFX you need to climb down off your high horse) which is just plainly and simply not the case.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 21, 2013 17:08:43 GMT -5
Reporters are supposed to ask questions they wouldn't be able to get the answer to on their own. I'm pretty sure they could have concluded "Dempster left a pitch over the plate that got crushed" on their own.
The problem with post-game interviews is that you have a mix of newspaper/online and TV reporters interviewing the players. The print guys generally want answers to specific questions, whereas TV reporters are usually just looking for good soundbites. That's generally when you get the "talk about this play" questions that have no substance whatsoever.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 21, 2013 17:23:51 GMT -5
]Again, you're assuming that every baseball fan is as dedicated and educated as your average SoxProspects.com forum member is, which just isn't the case. You forget that the media is there to inform the members of the public that aren't as educated or dedicated as we are. Isn't that kind of a contradiction? If members of the public aren't as educated or dedicated as we are, what are the odds that they're reading game summaries anyway? Breaking down the game to the level of a single pitch is by definition something for "hardcore" fans. My mom doesn't care, she wants to know if they won or lost. The audience for traditional beat reporter stuff is small, and it's getting smaller every day. Like I said, you can assert the importance of the job all you want. The market clearly doesn't agree. Gameday is a booming business. How's the job market for beat writers looking?
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 17:42:17 GMT -5
I acknowledge that it's tough. But it was a terrible hanging fast ball right over the plate. Literally a meatball. The way that reporter asked the question, he might as well have been saying "So you threw a garbage meatball right over the plate that any MLB hitter could crush. Why'd you do that?" It's obviously a huge mistake pitch. I know many of us on here know more than the average audience to popular media outlets, but this particular question and and the issue with the pitch just seem so elementary. Obviously if they aren't going to ask any of these seemingly simple questions, I get that you aren't going to get the "quote" you want. But you can't deny that some of these reporters could step it up a notch or re-evaluate what they're looking for when questioning reporters. There's always going to be reporters to ask the simple things that players probably get annoyed answer. I'd just like to see more reporters change up a bit. If you watched the game are you reading the game story? I'd say that the game recaps are primarily read by those who couldn't/didn't watch the game. So getting a pitchers opinion on what ended up being a fairly important home run is something that needs to be done. We as "hardcore" fans don't need these questions answered, sure. But a casual fan who may or may not have watched today's game might be curious about that pitch. You say "There's always going to be reporters to ask the simple things that players probably get annoyed answer," then act incredulous that someone asked the question. This is a basic, surface level question to ask but I don't see any harm in asking it. It just so happens that Ryan Dempster either isn't the kind of guy to give you anything more than that or didn't feel like giving any more than that. I just don't think that newspapers as a whole should be villified because some guy asked a question that honestly should be asked. I disagree. Dempster is as good and friendly a guy as they come, and I can't imagine reacting to that question any better or more detailed than he did. It wasn't an insult or anything, but it almost felt that way, you know? I'm not trying to vilify journalism at all, but, frankly, that question was stupid. If a journalist wants to write about that pitch, he can do it. He should do it. But if he can't do it without a quote from his pointlessly basic question, then he shouldn't be in there interviewing the player in the first place.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 21, 2013 17:45:22 GMT -5
Dempster is probably the best interview on the team. There are only two ways to answer that question. One is to talk your way around it and sound evasive. The second is to answer it tersely and directly and sound like a jerk.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 21, 2013 17:59:56 GMT -5
I disagree. Dempster is as good and friendly a guy as they come, and I can't imagine reacting to that question any better or more detailed than he did. It wasn't an insult or anything, but it almost felt that way, you know? I'm not trying to vilify journalism at all, but, frankly, that question was stupid. If a journalist wants to write about that pitch, he can do it. He should do it. But if he can't do it without a quote from his pointlessly basic question, then he shouldn't be in there interviewing the player in the first place. It's not impossible for him to say anything more than "I threw a pitch and he hit it." It just so happens that that's all he chose to say. I do understand that it wasn't an insult, I'm just saying it's not unheard of for a pitcher to actually comment on the game. If you're okay with him writing about it why is it stupid for him to ask about it? Why is it stupid? This is what I don't get. Is he wasting anyone's time? Worst case scenario he says what Dempster says. Best case scenario he reveals some insight into the game of baseball. Another is to provide some insight into the play. Pitch selection, mental mistake, good adjustment, whatever. Just because many players handle the question one way does not mean that there is only two ways to handle the question. I won't hijack this thread any more than I already have, but I think this "holier than thou" baseball elitist vibe of this topic is unbecoming of this community. A reporter asked a question about a baseball play and we vilify them and their entire profession? We're better than this, as a whole. /endofrant
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Post by Guidas on Apr 21, 2013 18:07:36 GMT -5
Alex Gordon says welcome to the majors.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 21, 2013 18:09:00 GMT -5
I think you're missing the point some of us are making. I understand that he COULD have said more, but balance the actual pitch with what the question said and how it was asked. The pitch was simply horrible. Clearly he wanted to throw a FB, and he missed his location big time. Maybe the reporter could have asked a specific question that Dempster would be much more willing to answer. Maybe where exactly he was trying to locate it, what him and Salty were trying to do, etc. I'm not sure how much that would even add, but at least it's a real question that doesn't come across as saying "that fastball he crushed, why'd you throw him that?
Like James said, Dempster really only had two ways to answer the question, and I support him for taking the route he did. If there's a quote to be made out of that pitch, it's on the reporter to ask a better question about it.
And finally, let's get on the same page here about this argument. I think it's a pretty good one, and appreciate the back and fourth, so I wouldn't look at it as hijacking the thread. Secondly, no one is trying to vilify the entire profession of reporting/journalism. Some of us simply commented on the state of the media these days as it applies to reporters asking players questions in the clubhouse. That's hardly attacking the profession of journalism.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 21, 2013 18:10:27 GMT -5
Ok Pedro Ciriaco, you really do not need to pretend to be Chuck Knoblauch/
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Post by soxcentral on Apr 21, 2013 18:15:44 GMT -5
Nice job by Webster to retire the side after the error. And 2 K's too.
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Post by bjb406 on Apr 21, 2013 18:18:34 GMT -5
how on earth was the play to ciriaco a hit?
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Post by bluechip on Apr 21, 2013 18:20:55 GMT -5
how on earth was the play to ciriaco a hit? Even if he had not thrown it into the crowd, the runner would have reached first. It took Ciriaco a long time to get up after diving and making the stop.
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