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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2023 6:04:45 GMT -5
Presumably these guys are 40 man pitchers going forward. Wonder if this is a trial run for the 2024 season or if they'll get DFA'd at the end of the season. Hagenman isn't on the 40-man yet. Likely being evaluated the rest of the way for whether he'll be protected. Robertson they probably are evaluating for whether to bring him up in the short term. Makes sense to make sure rather than option someone, lose that guy for 15 days, then wish they had that guy instead.
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Post by urgent on Jul 26, 2023 7:51:59 GMT -5
Well that's a bummer on the 2.5M going back to the dodgers. Not surprised at all there but won't really help them much come trade deadline to try and bring in more salary if they don't want to go over the LT which if I had to guess they won't. I read that as an indicator that they do not plan to do much buying. In the trade negotiations, they faced tradeoffs in how much money to agree to send, and what caliber of prospect to request. At close to a $250M payroll for the Dodgers, and with the Sox hovering right below the luxury tax threshold, the Dodgers are far less sensitive to whether Kiké costs $1M or $3M for the rest of the season. Meanwhile, without a first round draft pick the last couple seasons, LA was likely somewhat more sensitive to losing prospects. So if the Sox planned to buy at the trade deadline, they probably would have tried to send less money and request fewer/lower value players.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 26, 2023 8:45:16 GMT -5
Well that's a bummer on the 2.5M going back to the dodgers. Not surprised at all there but won't really help them much come trade deadline to try and bring in more salary if they don't want to go over the LT which if I had to guess they won't. I read that as an indicator that they do not plan to do much buying. In the trade negotiations, they faced tradeoffs in how much money to agree to send, and what caliber of prospect to request. At close to a $250M payroll for the Dodgers, and with the Sox hovering right below the luxury tax threshold, the Dodgers are far less sensitive to whether Kiké costs $1M or $3M for the rest of the season. Meanwhile, without a first round draft pick the last couple seasons, LA was likely somewhat more sensitive to losing prospects. So if the Sox planned to buy at the trade deadline, they probably would have tried to send less money and request fewer/lower value players. This is an interesting point and you probably have something with it. As you point out the Dodgers are going to be over the LT either way so one would think they may not have cared all that much to have taken back more of Hernandez salary if it meant the Sox would have taken back more of a PTBNL type rather than the two at least interesting arms they got back. This could be an indicator the Sox are looking at trade acquisitions more in the bargain bin or at least low end salary since I'm assuming they don't want to go over the LT this season.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 26, 2023 8:59:43 GMT -5
Well that's a bummer on the 2.5M going back to the dodgers. Not surprised at all there but won't really help them much come trade deadline to try and bring in more salary if they don't want to go over the LT which if I had to guess they won't. I read that as an indicator that they do not plan to do much buying. In the trade negotiations, they faced tradeoffs in how much money to agree to send, and what caliber of prospect to request. At close to a $250M payroll for the Dodgers, and with the Sox hovering right below the luxury tax threshold, the Dodgers are far less sensitive to whether Kiké costs $1M or $3M for the rest of the season. Meanwhile, without a first round draft pick the last couple seasons, LA was likely somewhat more sensitive to losing prospects. So if the Sox planned to buy at the trade deadline, they probably would have tried to send less money and request fewer/lower value players. This seems like an overly negative take. With the Red Sox under the CBT and Dodgers over, the money is far more important to the Dodgers rather than vice versa. Red Sox are flexing their extra payroll space for a couple of depth bullpen arms with team control. They still have ~6.5mil-12.5mil available to use at the trade deadline, which amounts to ~18.8-36.2 in yearly AAVs (after July 31st games). That doesn't include other teams covering salary or Bloom selling as he buys (Duvall would be a strong candidate for this). As an example: the Red Sox could trade for Dylan Cease and Tim Anderson on July 31st and still remain under the CBT. I would much rather the Red Sox spend the money than sit on it.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jul 26, 2023 9:18:57 GMT -5
Bloom made the best of a bad situation. Even if neither of the pitchers work out. Trading Kiké for a couple of guys and dumping some of the salary on top of it. Bloom getting anything for a guy that was probably going to end up as a DFA in the next couple of weeks. Got to admire a guy who will cut bait after just signing guys. Admit your mistake and try to make the best of it. He did it last year with Diekman and again this year with Kiké.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 26, 2023 9:22:37 GMT -5
It is hard to be sad watching a guy go who is signed to short-term contracts on a team that revolves short-term contracts. In 10 years, I won’t remember he was here. Is this supposed to be insulting to Bloom? What sort of disaster would it have been if they signed him to a longer term deal last year?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 26, 2023 9:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2023 10:09:17 GMT -5
It is hard to be sad watching a guy go who is signed to short-term contracts on a team that revolves short-term contracts. In 10 years, I won’t remember he was here. Is this supposed to be insulting to Bloom? What sort of disaster would it have been if they signed him to a longer term deal last year? No, not an insult. Just an observation. There are lots of guys here short term by design. Trading them is pretty much inevitable. I was never going to get very attached to Kiké, because his stay was always going to be brief.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Jul 26, 2023 10:42:03 GMT -5
I think there always have been players here for the short term by design, though? The roster construction is under a microscope here because that's the nature of the forum (and what I love about it), but from the jump, beat writers and talk show heads made sure that everyone and their mother knew that Bloom came from the Rays org and that things were "going to be different around here" and that "we're all going to have to embrace the Tampa Bay way", etc. full-well knowing that people would be up in arms and it would rile up the fanbase. 1 year or 2 year contracts and waiver wire minutiae only feeds this narrative even though these transactions are integral aspects of modern team-building.
I'm not sure how much Turner and Duvall and Kiké and Kluber and Paxton differ from:
(Theo Era) Mike Cameron Marco Scutaro Adrian Beltre Brad Penny Mark Loretta David Wells
(Cherington Era) Cody Ross Stephen Drew Jonny Gomes David Ross Ryan Dempster Koji A.J. Pierzynski
We're all disappointed when moves like these don't work out, but they're low-risk. You'll notice that I didn't put a list for the Dombrowski era - that's because there weren't that many (Moreland, Chris Young, uhhh). And that was the problem: the lack of flexibility. Dombrowski was and is the outlier. The Red Sox (and, I would argue, most teams) are at their best for the long term when they are in a consistent position to revolve short-term contracts around a youthful core. This idea has been a theme here on the forum and the instigator for debate.
Not too long ago, Cherington's 2012-2013 offseason was being heralded far and wide as the work of genius precisely because he intended for half the roster to be short term by design. It seems like an odd observation to indicate that you won't remember Kiké if you remember any of the guys on either list above or someone like Mike Napoli who only has ~100 more PAs as a Red Sox (and ~1 more bWAR) than Kiké.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 26, 2023 12:41:17 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 26, 2023 18:35:34 GMT -5
Kiké goes 2 for 4 in his first game back with the LAD. Weeks worth of production when he was with Boston
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 28, 2023 11:38:21 GMT -5
The Sox add to their upper level pool of arms to trade from. Plus the two are right-handed. It's a win win trade.
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