SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2024 Free Agency
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 11, 2023 20:36:21 GMT -5
I wont be surprised if they dont land a top starting pitcher, but I'll be damn disappointed.
My guess is that the Dodgers land Ohtani and the Mets spend 250 million plus on Yamamoto.
I suspect they cleared the decks to get Yanamoto. Trade 2 40 year olds for prospects and then get a young potential ace who can grow with the prospects as the Mets go with the youngsters like Alvarez, Baty, Vientos, Gilbert, and Acunas.
I really hope the Sox get Yamamoto but I have a lot of doubts that the Sox will be the highest bidder.
Between Urias, Snell, Giolito, and Nola there are some good consolation prizes. Theyll need another starter to replace Paxton as I dont expect him back. We'll see who they land. I suspect it'll be a Marlins pitcher in a trade.
As for dumping Sale that would be stupid. 29 other teams would be happy to add him.
In 2023 he proved that he can still pitch at an ace level when he is (rarely) healthy.
I think he is still their best pitcher and I say that thinking Bello is good and Paxton is still good.
So you dont rely on Sale and you get other front line starters but you damn well take his ace pitching when he is healthy. I'll take that over fungible back end starter or bullpen game.
|
|
|
Post by taiwansox on Aug 11, 2023 21:03:25 GMT -5
I wont be surprised if they dont land a top starting pitcher, but I'll be damn disappointed. My guess is that the Dodgers land Ohtani and the Mets spend 250 million plus on Yamamoto. I suspect they cleared the decks to get Yanamoto. Trade 2 40 year olds for prospects and then get a young potential ace who can grow with the prospects as the Mets go with the youngsters like Alvarez, Baty, Vientos, Gilbert, and Acunas. I really hope the Sox get Yamamoto but I have a lot of doubts that the Sox will be the highest bidder. Between Urias, Snell, Giolito, and Nola there are some good consolation prizes. Theyll need another starter to replace Paxton as I dont expect him back. We'll see who they land. I suspect it'll be a Marlins pitcher in a trade. As for dumping Sale that would be stupid. 29 other teams would be happy to add him. In 2023 he proved that he can still pitch at an ace level when he is (rarely) healthy. I think he is still their best pitcher and I say that thinking Bello is good and Paxton is still good. So you dont rely on Sale and you get other front line starters but you damn well take his ace pitching when he is healthy. I'll take that over fungible back end starter or bullpen game. Yeah not a fan of Urias or Giolito and Snell can be hot and cold. Montgomery, Clevinger, Flaherty seem more likely. Really don’t want to overpay for a consolation prize
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 11, 2023 21:07:12 GMT -5
I wont be surprised if they dont land a top starting pitcher, but I'll be damn disappointed. My guess is that the Dodgers land Ohtani and the Mets spend 250 million plus on Yamamoto. I suspect they cleared the decks to get Yanamoto. Trade 2 40 year olds for prospects and then get a young potential ace who can grow with the prospects as the Mets go with the youngsters like Alvarez, Baty, Vientos, Gilbert, and Acunas. I really hope the Sox get Yamamoto but I have a lot of doubts that the Sox will be the highest bidder. Between Urias, Snell, Giolito, and Nola there are some good consolation prizes. Theyll need another starter to replace Paxton as I dont expect him back. We'll see who they land. I suspect it'll be a Marlins pitcher in a trade. As for dumping Sale that would be stupid. 29 other teams would be happy to add him. In 2023 he proved that he can still pitch at an ace level when he is (rarely) healthy. I think he is still their best pitcher and I say that thinking Bello is good and Paxton is still good. So you dont rely on Sale and you get other front line starters but you damn well take his ace pitching when he is healthy. I'll take that over fungible back end starter or bullpen game. Yeah not a fan of Urias or Giolito and Snell can be hot and cold. Montgomery, Clevinger, Flaherty seem more likely. Really don’t want to overpay for a consolation prize True, but also dont want to underpay so that they wind up with a mediocrity and a hole in the rotation. Certainly dont want to see another bandaid solution
|
|
|
Post by pappyman99 on Aug 12, 2023 10:57:20 GMT -5
I’m still of the hope we package something centering around Duran for Gilbert especially with Rafaela coming up
I’m thinking we keep Verdugo at this point hope for an awesome contract year than just nab a pick off of him
Sign lance Lynn or Clevinger to a 1 year deal
Bello Sale Gilbert Lynn/Clevinger Houck / Crawford
Whitlock to the pen
Starting to come more to the conclusion that Pivetta, Houck, or Crawford will have to be traded for a right handed power bat. There just isn’t much out there
We have way too many left handed bats
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Aug 12, 2023 11:31:52 GMT -5
I just don’t think the Mariners will trade Gilbert or Kirby especially for Duran. That package would probably have to have Mayer in it. Maybe a Verdugo for Emerson Hancock if they deal a young starter. I do think they’ll be an interesting team to follow this offseason. I’d imagine that Ohtani would be their 1st priority. Maybe they would need to shed a little payroll to make it work? Castillo has a salary increase to over $24M next year and Robbie Ray set for $25m.
|
|
|
Post by pappyman99 on Aug 12, 2023 11:37:08 GMT -5
I just don’t think the Mariners will trade Gilbert or Kirby especially for Duran. That package would probably have to have Mayer in it. Maybe a Verdugo for Emerson Hancock if they deal a young starter. I do think they’ll be an interesting team to follow this offseason. I’d imagine that Ohtani would be their 1st priority. Maybe they would need to shed a little payroll to make it work? Castillo has a salary increase to over $24M next year and Robbie Ray set for $25m. I see them preferring young mlb bats. Their rotation is built to win now I honestly see them going hard after Turner and Bellinger
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Aug 12, 2023 11:45:40 GMT -5
Nobody, especially a contending team, is in any rush to trade any all star caliber starting pitchers with tons of control left. If there are reports of the Mariners shopping one, you should assume that they are just fishing for another team to do something idiotic.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2023 12:04:43 GMT -5
I’m still of the hope we package something centering around Duran for Gilbert especially with Rafaela coming up I’m thinking we keep Verdugo at this point hope for an awesome contract year than just nab a pick off of him Sign lance Lynn or Clevinger to a 1 year deal Bello Sale Gilbert Lynn/Clevinger Houck / Crawford Whitlock to the pen Starting to come more to the conclusion that Pivetta, Houck, or Crawford will have to be traded for a right handed power bat. There just isn’t much out there We have way too many left handed bats Agree. If I'm the Mariners and I have two young, controllable Top 15 starters, why would I ever trade either? This is only Kirby's second year in the league and Gilbert's third. I just can't see that kind of deal with the Sox for Duran or even Duran, Mayer and Houck.
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 12, 2023 12:30:12 GMT -5
The only semi realistic trade option for a young controlled pitcher for a couple years is Dylan cease if the white Sox come to their senses and realize they aren't gonna contend. I think the price would still hurt but I don't think we're talking Mayer or Anthony in the deal.
|
|
|
Post by pappyman99 on Aug 12, 2023 12:32:13 GMT -5
Understandable
Duran for Woo who says no there? This FA class is pretty weak I feel the trade market will be quite active
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 14, 2023 8:45:09 GMT -5
The only semi realistic trade option for a young controlled pitcher for a couple years is Dylan cease if the white Sox come to their senses and realize they aren't gonna contend. I think the price would still hurt but I don't think we're talking Mayer or Anthony in the deal. I wonder if there might be a fit for like a Crawford + Prospect trade for Cease. Red Sox upgrade the rotation, White Sox get an MLB starter cheaper and with more control. Not sure what caliber prospect the Red Sox would have to add there though, maybe like Yorke or Rafaela?
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2023 11:21:31 GMT -5
Is anybody concerned with the number of walks handed out by Dylan Cease? His ERA is mediocre as well. I dont think he's that great where I'd overpay in prospects to secure his services.
Same thing with Edward Cabrera of Miami. Way too many walks.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Aug 14, 2023 15:55:40 GMT -5
Is anybody concerned with the number of walks handed out by Dylan Cease? His ERA is mediocre as well. I dont think he's that great where I'd overpay in prospects to secure his services. Same thing with Edward Cabrera of Miami. Way too many walks. Zac Gallen on AZ is headed into his arb years, as is Mitch Keller. Both teams have playoff aspirations but both also have cheap owners and other positional needs. Keller is probably more like #2/3, but Gallen's been a #1 for the last two years. Also, I think it's a bit disingenuous to do trade machine WAR swaps on #1/2 pitchers. There are so few of them in baseball to begin with, and cost-controlled, pre-free agency guys are even more valuable because they are a decidedly smaller subset of the above. If you want one of these guys or even if you think Kirby is available, it's the "on paper it's a significant overpay" time, especially if we are talking prospects who've yet to reach MLB.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxpride34 on Aug 14, 2023 17:52:56 GMT -5
Is anybody concerned with the number of walks handed out by Dylan Cease? His ERA is mediocre as well. I dont think he's that great where I'd overpay in prospects to secure his services. Same thing with Edward Cabrera of Miami. Way too many walks. Zac Gallen on AZ is headed into his arb years, as is Mitch Keller. Both teams have playoff aspirations but both also have cheap owners and other positional needs. Keller is probably more like #2/3, but Gallen's been a #1 for the last two years. Also, I think it's a bit disingenuous to do trade machine WAR swaps on #1/2 pitchers. There are so few of them in baseball to begin with, and cost-controlled, pre-free agency guys are even more valuable because they are a decidedly smaller subset of the above. If you want one of these guys or even if you think Kirby is available, it's the "on paper it's a significant overpay" time, especially if we are talking prospects who've yet to reach MLB. Gallen would definitely be at the top of my list of pitchers to overpay for. Keller doesn't make as much sense to me as he is more a 3/4 on a good team. In terms of Cease, if he finishes the season with the same types of numbers he's posted so far then I do wonder we pivot away from him. Another name on the offensive side of things that apparently was floated in trade talks at the deadline is Pete Alonso. I'd be very curious as to what it would take to get him from the mets. Him and Devers would be a real nice 3/4 punch. Could only imagine how many bombs he'd hit over the monster.
|
|
|
Post by pappyman99 on Aug 15, 2023 8:33:21 GMT -5
Is anybody concerned with the number of walks handed out by Dylan Cease? His ERA is mediocre as well. I dont think he's that great where I'd overpay in prospects to secure his services. Same thing with Edward Cabrera of Miami. Way too many walks. Zac Gallen on AZ is headed into his arb years, as is Mitch Keller. Both teams have playoff aspirations but both also have cheap owners and other positional needs. Keller is probably more like #2/3, but Gallen's been a #1 for the last two years. Also, I think it's a bit disingenuous to do trade machine WAR swaps on #1/2 pitchers. There are so few of them in baseball to begin with, and cost-controlled, pre-free agency guys are even more valuable because they are a decidedly smaller subset of the above. If you want one of these guys or even if you think Kirby is available, it's the "on paper it's a significant overpay" time, especially if we are talking prospects who've yet to reach MLB. I agree to an extent but someone like Gilbert is more of a young 2/3 pitcher still very valuable. My basis for the mariners being interest in duran is they are built to win now. Receiving a 3 WAR OF would not be a bad start for them. They are in dire need of offense I don’t think something like duran, Abreu, and Yorke is some insulting offer. I think that is quite fair actually
|
|
|
Post by remmartin34 on Aug 15, 2023 9:10:44 GMT -5
I’m still of the hope we package something centering around Duran for Gilbert especially with Rafaela coming up I’m thinking we keep Verdugo at this point hope for an awesome contract year than just nab a pick off of him Sign lance Lynn or Clevinger to a 1 year deal Bello Sale Gilbert Lynn/Clevinger Houck / Crawford Whitlock to the pen Starting to come more to the conclusion that Pivetta, Houck, or Crawford will have to be traded for a right handed power bat. There just isn’t much out there We have way too many left handed bats If that's your pitching staff for 2024, even with the very unlikely chance that Bloom gets Gilbert (based on the fact that the White Sox wanted Bello in a PACKAGE for Cease), then you better be ready for another 82-87 win season. It's becoming all the clearer that a controllable arm like Gilbert/Cease will have to include Mayer or Anthony, just to get the conversation started. And there is no chance Bloom is going to do that, based on his philosophy. If Bloom and more importantly OWNERSHIP, after the luxury tax reset and another 40 million coming off the books, don't have the stones to pay essentially whatever price it takes to get Yamamoto and also get a Snell/Urias type (~6 years, $140 million) or at least someone in the ERod/Montgomery range (~5 years, $90 million)... then they are failing the Red Sox fan base in absolute terms, after multiple years of patient waiting. ..... The organization was willing to take a step back this year after just about everything went wrong in 2022. That gave them a chance to see what this core of young talent really looked like over the course of a season. The plan all along was for 2024 to truly be "GO TIME" for the next 3-4 years. But there is no chance in hell that the Red Sox will have more than 1/50 odds of winning a World Series if that's what the rotation looks like going into next year. And I'm sorry, but I feel that almost every trade proposal I am looking at in a majority of prior posts are in "fantasy land" territory, or are just really bad for the Red Sox future.
|
|
zoot
Rookie
Posts: 50
|
Post by zoot on Aug 15, 2023 12:53:57 GMT -5
I've never been anti-Bloom but I'm beginning to think he channels General McClelland - looks and sounds intelligent but forever wrestling with doubts and concerns that prevent him from taking bold action. Not every strategy can be 100% proofed against downside risk
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 15, 2023 13:09:29 GMT -5
I've never been anti-Bloom but I'm beginning to think he channels General McClelland - looks and sounds intelligent but forever wrestling with doubts and concerns that prevent him from taking bold action. Not every strategy can be 100% proofed against downside risk The shockingly fast Yoshida signing and national criticisms after really hurt that take
|
|
zoot
Rookie
Posts: 50
|
Post by zoot on Aug 15, 2023 13:25:22 GMT -5
I agree in that instance but overall, his tenure has been marked by refraining from prompt action. Anyway, my comment really should have been in another thread, so apologies for the digression.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2023 13:27:57 GMT -5
I've never been anti-Bloom but I'm beginning to think he channels General McClelland - looks and sounds intelligent but forever wrestling with doubts and concerns that prevent him from taking bold action. Not every strategy can be 100% proofed against downside risk The shockingly fast Yoshida signing and national criticisms after really hurt that take Or is the exception that proves the rule. One example is not really enough to sink an argument.
|
|
|
Post by pappyman99 on Aug 15, 2023 13:30:56 GMT -5
I’m still of the hope we package something centering around Duran for Gilbert especially with Rafaela coming up I’m thinking we keep Verdugo at this point hope for an awesome contract year than just nab a pick off of him Sign lance Lynn or Clevinger to a 1 year deal Bello Sale Gilbert Lynn/Clevinger Houck / Crawford Whitlock to the pen Starting to come more to the conclusion that Pivetta, Houck, or Crawford will have to be traded for a right handed power bat. There just isn’t much out there We have way too many left handed bats If that's your pitching staff for 2024, even with the very unlikely chance that Bloom gets Gilbert (based on the fact that the White Sox wanted Bello in a PACKAGE for Cease), then you better be ready for another 82-87 win season. It's becoming all the clearer that a controllable arm like Gilbert/Cease will have to include Mayer or Anthony, just to get the conversation started. And there is no chance Bloom is going to do that, based on his philosophy. If Bloom and more importantly OWNERSHIP, after the luxury tax reset and another 40 million coming off the books, don't have the stones to pay essentially whatever price it takes to get Yamamoto and also get a Snell/Urias type (~6 years, $140 million) or at least someone in the ERod/Montgomery range (~5 years, $90 million)... then they are failing the Red Sox fan base in absolute terms, after multiple years of patient waiting. ..... The organization was willing to take a step back this year after just about everything went wrong in 2022. That gave them a chance to see what this core of young talent really looked like over the course of a season. The plan all along was for 2024 to truly be "GO TIME" for the next 3-4 years. But there is no chance in hell that the Red Sox will have more than 1/50 odds of winning a World Series if that's what the rotation looks like going into next year. And I'm sorry, but I feel that almost every trade proposal I am looking at in a majority of prior posts are in "fantasy land" territory, or are just really bad for the Red Sox future. Not sure why you feel signing someone like Montgomery is some huge upgrade over Gilbert/Clevinger It’s become clear to me we should sell high on duran because the majority of people here don’t think he would be a potential centerpiece (key word centerpiece, not only piece) to a trade for someone like Gilbert. You are essentially arguing (your words not mine) that the proposed rotation above is trash but if we took out Gilbert/Clevinger and instead had Montgomery that’s some heads and shoulders better rotation?
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 15, 2023 13:31:33 GMT -5
I'm certain it's less probable than so but I wonder how likely it's a guy like Teoscar Hernandez might be open to taking a one-year deal to rebuild his value.
Certainly, no one has ever come over from Seattle and signed a one-year deal to that and had a phenomenal season.
|
|
|
Post by seamus on Aug 15, 2023 13:36:53 GMT -5
In the past two offseasons, the Red Sox signed Yoshida and Story to big contracts (both 9-figures if you include the NPB posting fee) on top of the Devers extension. The organization is clearly willing to spend money when it believes in a guy, and the industry response to the Yoshida signing and Story's arm situation seem to indicate that they are willing to take calculated risks even with their big-ticket moves.
They probably won't sign Yamamoto, but you could literally say that about every team given that he's going to draw universal interest and the deciding factor is probably going to be as much about team fit and personality as anything given the broad consensus on his elite status. It's not going to be because they aren't willing to spend $200 million on the right guy.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Aug 15, 2023 23:54:18 GMT -5
I have a feeling it’s going to be Blake Snell
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 16, 2023 0:18:08 GMT -5
I have a feeling it’s going to be Blake Snell I could see that. There's a Bloom Snell Tampa connection. I dont see the Sox going where the Mers are likely to go with Yamamoto to sign him if Ohtani winds up with the Dodgers. The Sox will have to get somebody and Snell is as good a candidate as anybody else. His walks are worrisome to me, however. I think it'll take something like 10 years 250 million to sign the 25 year old Yamamoto, and I don't think Bloom goes there. It'll probably cost somewhere near what David Price got to sign Snell and Bloom might stretch for that. I'm not a huge Snell fan. I do hope the Sox land Yamamoto. I just dont exoect them to however. I think the Mets will spend big for a guy who can grow with their newly bought farm system and they cleared out a good chunk of Verlander and Scherzer's money not that it would deter Steve Cohen either way. I think the Mets will chase Ohtani but I'd think the Dodgers will splurge for him and I'd think the appeal of stating on the West Coast but playing for the LA team that actually makes the postseason every year would hold a lot of appeal for him. I could see the Dodgers giving him 10 years 500 million
|
|
|