SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
The search for the next Chief Baseball Officer
|
Post by jdb on Sept 15, 2023 7:14:03 GMT -5
I don’t think I’ve seen his named mentioned by the talking heads but how would you feel about Jeff Luhnow?
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,399
Member is Online
|
Post by radiohix on Sept 15, 2023 7:30:17 GMT -5
I don’t think I’ve seen his named mentioned by the talking heads but how would you feel about Jeff Luhnow? I won’t mind it at all, as a matter of fact I can’t think of a better candidate. Bonus points for pissing the MFY fan base even more lmao
|
|
|
Post by stevedillard on Sept 15, 2023 8:33:33 GMT -5
So, after listening to the SP podcast, and the specific question of what ails the team going forward, I thought I'd put into this thread the challenges I think they need to be able to address (without knowing any of the candidates or how they would approach these issues).
First, the issues 1.Left handedness of lineup 2.Starting pitching 3."Window" identification
First, they have a lineup for next year of Casas, Devers, Yoshida, Duran, Verdugo, Abreu (McGuire) with Mayer/Teel on the horizon. The only RH bats are Turner, who is likely to depart, Story, Wong, Duvall (same, but also short term if returns) and Rafaela. Depending on value, I would see planning on a Abreu/Rafaele platoon next year, and packaging some of the lefties (Duran with Verdugo?) for pitching or even just a righty outfielder. Other permutations I've heard is the Yoshida/Devers DH glut, so maybe seeing a market for Yoshida as a guy who performs close to his contract and maybe you subsidize it to find a taker (and some value in return)
Second, the podcast spoke of needing two big free agent signings as SP. I am with Chaim on not committing to long term pitching. It's too volatile, so no on Nola, Yamamoto, 5 plus year deals. I suspect they have to try and acquire by trade a guy under control, either close to money (good luck, and at a huge prospect cost), or identifying a first/second/third year guy just ready to turn into something (think Pivvetta like). That will buy time for the power arms Winkleman/ELC/Perales/Monegro to sort themselves out.
Third, is the vision for the team window. Or more appropriately, the vision is undoubtedly to avoid a window like 2018 after which everyone becomes too costly and you boom and bust. With the "Bloom system" still two to three years away from coming to the majors, but then two more years from being impactful (see Volpe), how do they extend to that point, which means committing to the kids just starting they period (Casas/Bello) to keep them beyond 5 year from now.
Fourth, value for the farm surplus. I guess a final addition is finding a market for the second tier prospects like Paulino, Blaze, Romero and getting something for them before they disappear. We see from the Dombrowski retrospective that his deal sweeteners like Logan Allen have value even if most then never hit their mark (like most prospects don't).
|
|
|
Post by mark86 on Sept 15, 2023 8:45:15 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked.
|
|
cheers
Veteran
Posts: 1,143
Member is Online
|
Post by cheers on Sept 15, 2023 8:56:04 GMT -5
Sox should certainly offer the moon, stars, and whatever else they can come up with to the Braves' Antho. That guy has destroyed it for several years running.
I can't think of a reason why he'd accept, but it should still be offered - accompanied by some groveling.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 15, 2023 9:00:00 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked. They got Bloom, right? They’d just fired DD, who did what they asked. The Red Sox are a top-tier organization. Someone with ambition will take the job. And it isn’t like they destroy people. Theo did fine when he left. Cherington, despite being awful, got another executive job. DD immediately got hired. Bloom will land on his feet.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,795
|
Post by mobaz on Sept 15, 2023 9:16:12 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked. I'm guessing most incoming candidates would understand ".500 record" is probably not what was asked. Also it doesn't seem like "Fired from Red Sox" has been a burden on anyone's baseball careers, as Theo (mutual), BC, Hazen (replaced), and DD2 have all done just fine for themselves. Baseball execs are literally hired and fired all the time. He was the 12th longest tenured head of Baseball Ops when he was fired. I hated the Mookie thing and hate it now. It's been 3.5 years since them. If you can't make a meaningful positive stamp on the major league team in that time with the Sox budget and ownership buy-in, that's on you. The major league team is not better off than when we've started, and many have stated on this board how hard it actually is gonna be to move the needle on a team that's "good not great" in basically all positions but SP. I honestly think it's a very desirable job. Ownership was fully supportive of Cherrington's strategy until it didn't work, same with Dombo, and same now with Chaim. They LET the CBO bring their own vision and only responded when it didn't include sustainable winning.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,795
|
Post by mobaz on Sept 15, 2023 9:16:54 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked. They got Bloom, right? They’d just fired DD, who did what they asked. The Red Sox are a top-tier organization. Someone with ambition will take the job. And it isn’t like they destroy people. Theo did fine when he left. Cherington, despite being awful, got another executive job. DD immediately got hired. Bloom will land on his feet. LOL, manfred, exact same response but you were faster and more succinct. Another L for me.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Sept 15, 2023 9:21:30 GMT -5
The Red Sox will get a top candidate because of the following:
- historic franchise - large payroll - the last guy was hated so you’ll be on the right side of the narrative - only one really major long term commitment (1.5 with Story?) - a team that has a clear path to being better immediately - stacked farm system
The Red Sox finding a good candidate shouldn’t be a huge concern.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,399
Member is Online
|
Post by radiohix on Sept 15, 2023 10:17:15 GMT -5
From the statement Chaim sent to The Athletic : The guy who will get the job is a lucky MFer if he doesn’t screw it up.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,897
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Sept 15, 2023 10:20:40 GMT -5
From the statement Chaim sent to The Athletic :The guy who will get the job is a lucky MFer if he doesn’t screw it up. Classy. Honestly you can already tell from the fan reaction that he will get his flowers when the Sox are contenders again. A small silver lining for him. Also, there’s no doubt he’ll get another run at it somewhere else in due time IMO.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 15, 2023 10:22:01 GMT -5
I find this to be a really weird idea. I think Cora is a good enough manager, but it seems like an awfully different skill set from POBO. And if he has a weakness in the way he manages, it's that he rides with his favorites way beyond the point of reason, which doesn't seem like it bodes especially well for how he might handle talent acquisition. Comments like "the goal is to win games, not build the farm system" might just be reflective of his role as manager, but they also don't give me more reason to believe he'd make a great POBO.
|
|
|
Post by seamus on Sept 15, 2023 10:23:03 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked. They got Bloom, right? They’d just fired DD, who did what they asked. The Red Sox are a top-tier organization. Someone with ambition will take the job. And it isn’t like they destroy people. Theo did fine when he left. Cherington, despite being awful, got another executive job. DD immediately got hired. Bloom will land on his feet. But the point is that Bloom wasn't Tampa Bay's #1, and there's very little reason to think that any #1 that the Red Sox would actually want is going to be interested given the environment. Why would, say, Antonetti want to leave a sweet gig in Cleveland where he can win regularly without rabid dogs howling at his door? The most likely scenario is hiring someone with a profile very similar to what Bloom had when he was hired (#2 who wants the chance to run the show), in which case you're gambling that the new person will have whatever ineffable quality that Bloom evidently lacked, without any particular evidence to back it up.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 15, 2023 10:26:27 GMT -5
They got Bloom, right? They’d just fired DD, who did what they asked. The Red Sox are a top-tier organization. Someone with ambition will take the job. And it isn’t like they destroy people. Theo did fine when he left. Cherington, despite being awful, got another executive job. DD immediately got hired. Bloom will land on his feet. But the point is that Bloom wasn't Tampa Bay's #1, and there's very little reason to think that any #1 that the Red Sox would actually want is going to be interested given the environment. Why would, say, Antonetti want to leave a sweet gig in Cleveland where he can win regularly without rabid dogs howling at his door? The most likely scenario is hiring someone with a profile very similar to what Bloom had when he was hired (#2 who wants the chance to run the show), in which case you're gambling that the new person will have whatever ineffable quality that Bloom evidently lacked, without any particular evidence to back it up. How often do teams poach other teams’ #1? Bloom wasn’t that guy… but neither was DD, Ben, or Theo. Anyway, I’d leave Cleveland for Boston. Which of those two organizations are likelier to win a title in the next four years? Show me the money.
|
|
|
Post by seamus on Sept 15, 2023 10:36:13 GMT -5
You were responding to mark's statement: "How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked." Based on your response, it seemed like you were saying Bloom was a #1. Sorry if I misunderstood. But, c'mon, saying Dombrowski wasn't a #1 is only true in a technical sense. He had been fired by the Tigers two weeks earlier, but had been running the show in Detroit for over a decade.
My point is just that you're either taking a chance on someone external with who hasn't sat in the big chair, coming into a situation where there's already an entrenched manager and senior FO staff, or you're promoting from within.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 15, 2023 10:54:24 GMT -5
Let's not turn this into a discussion of the on-field team. That's already being discussed in multiple other places. Unless it's something about how David Forst is terrible at finding right handed hitters or something, that's not really germane here.
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Sept 15, 2023 11:11:30 GMT -5
The idea of Alex Cora as CBO scares the crap out of me.
...and I like Alex Cora.
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on Sept 15, 2023 11:42:38 GMT -5
The idea of Alex Cora as CBO scares the crap out of me. ...and I like Alex Cora. I just find the idea of Wil Venable coming back after a year internship in Texas funny.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Sept 15, 2023 11:54:27 GMT -5
The Red Sox will get a top candidate because of the following: - historic franchise - large payroll - the last guy was hated so you’ll be on the right side of the narrative - only one really major long term commitment (1.5 with Story?) - a team that has a clear path to being better immediately - stacked farm system The Red Sox finding a good candidate shouldn’t be a huge concern. Don't forget the very human component that most of these guys on this level think they are smarter/better than their peers. They don't articulate that publicly, but they're just as competitive as the players.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Sept 15, 2023 12:02:25 GMT -5
The idea of Alex Cora as CBO scares the crap out of me. ...and I like Alex Cora. In the latest blog post by Red Sox Stats in Substack (well worth subscribing and hitting the tip jar), he's a little more upbeat on Cora. Excerpt: If Alex Cora is interested in moving from managing to general managing, he is who I believe the Red Sox should hire. No offense to people like Jon Daniels, Sig Mejdal, Brandon Gomes, Eve Rosenbaum, etc…. but if I’m the Red Sox, handing a young core and good farm system over to someone in the next month, I would trust Cora over any of them to know where the Red Sox stand, where they need to be, and have a plan to get there.
Much more at the link.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Sept 15, 2023 12:05:26 GMT -5
I find this to be a really weird idea. I think Cora is a good enough manager, but it seems like an awfully different skill set from POBO. And if he has a weakness in the way he manages, it's that he rides with his favorites way beyond the point of reason, which doesn't seem like it bodes especially well for how he might handle talent acquisition. Comments like "the goal is to win games, not build the farm system" might just be reflective of his role as manager, but they also don't give me more reason to believe he'd make a great POBO. It's been widely reported that he is interested in ending up there eventually, and ownership sees him in that role at some point. I think this is one of those Alex may want to be careful what he wishes for. Then again, as a player, a coach and a manager, he is well aware that virtually every job in the game involves getting canned at some point. Very few guys get Brian Cashman's ride.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Sept 15, 2023 12:08:25 GMT -5
The Red Sox will get a top candidate because of the following: - historic franchise - large payroll - the last guy was hated so you’ll be on the right side of the narrative - only one really major long term commitment (1.5 with Story?) - a team that has a clear path to being better immediately - stacked farm system The Red Sox finding a good candidate shouldn’t be a huge concern. Don't forget the very human component that most of these guys on this level think they are smarter/better than their peers. They don't articulate that publicly, but they're just as competitive as the players. Yes and I'd also add there are 30 of these dream jobs in the entire world (and some of them are in Ohio!)
|
|
|
Post by dcsoxfan15 on Sept 15, 2023 12:10:32 GMT -5
People talk a lot about The Bloominati, people who are way too supportive of Chaim despite his issues, but have we had a discussion on people who are far too bullish on Alex Cora? Why is there a large contingent of people who think he could run a baseball team. Granted, these are people in the business who are plugged in and way smarter than I am, but what has he shown that would make him seem like a good GM or POBO? It seems like his greatest skill as a manager is getting the best out of his players, from a mental and personal level. There are glaring issues with his actual game management, though. How many threads from the last year, and longer, have comments bemoaning the weird bullpen management? How many complain about sticking with Hernandez at shortstop for as long as he possibly could?
I think Alex Cora has done a good job in Boston, of course. He won a World Series (with a team that anyone could have won with, to be fair). Does that qualify him to run a front office? No.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 15, 2023 12:13:20 GMT -5
People talk a lot about The Bloominati, people who are way too supportive of Chaim despite his issues, but have we had a discussion on people who are far too bullish on Alex Cora? Why is there a large contingent of people who think he could run a baseball team. Granted, these are people in the business who are plugged in and way smarter than I am, but what has he shown that would make him seem like a good GM or POBO? It seems like his greatest skill as a manager is getting the best out of his players, from a mental and personal level. There are glaring issues with his actual game management, though. How many threads from the last year, and longer, have comments bemoaning the weird bullpen management? How many complain about sticking with Hernandez at shortstop for as long as he possibly could? I think Alex Cora has done a good job in Boston, of course. He won a World Series (with a team that anyone could have won with, to be fair). Does that qualify him to run a front office? No. I remember a time when John Farrel came here it was said he could do it all, pitch coach, manage, even be a front office guy. Now I think he's fishing lobsters in Maine. I don't get why Sox fans want Cora as the GM. People were upset that Bloom had no experience coming from the Rays, but Cora, with no front office experience, is going to make all the right moves?
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 15, 2023 12:16:37 GMT -5
I find this to be a really weird idea. I think Cora is a good enough manager, but it seems like an awfully different skill set from POBO. And if he has a weakness in the way he manages, it's that he rides with his favorites way beyond the point of reason, which doesn't seem like it bodes especially well for how he might handle talent acquisition. Comments like "the goal is to win games, not build the farm system" might just be reflective of his role as manager, but they also don't give me more reason to believe he'd make a great POBO. It's been widely reported that he is interested in ending up there eventually, and ownership sees him in that role at some point.I think this is one of those Alex may want to be careful what he wishes for. Then again, as a player, a coach and a manager, he is well aware that virtually every job in the game involves getting canned at some point. Very few guys get Brian Cashman's ride. All well and good, but I'd give him a stop or two along the way between the dugout and the corner office.
It would be hilarious if people turned out to be right about the Bear Claw game and this has all just been a Machiavellian scheme by Cora.
|
|
|