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The search for the next Chief Baseball Officer
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 15, 2023 12:18:31 GMT -5
Yeah, not buying the narrative that anything the owners are doing is going to make it hard to find a new guy.
There's a grand total of 30 dream jobs and only a few are available at a given time. The Red Sox owners foibles do not stand out compared to their competition. From a pure baseball side, the Red Sox are in a pretty good spot compared to all teams, and a great spot compared to the type of team that just found cause to fire their head decision maker.
All these guys know that none of them have much job security, even a guy in the middle of a pretty successful tenure like Antonetti.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 15, 2023 12:22:19 GMT -5
How does ownership think it’s going to get a #1 from somewhere to come when they just fired a guy who did exactly what they asked. Elizabeth Taylor married eight times, including to one guy twice (so, clearly, he knew better). You've got your PROs and your CONs. Like Elizabeth's beaus, not all will stack their ledger the same.
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Sept 15, 2023 12:39:48 GMT -5
They got Bloom, right? They’d just fired DD, who did what they asked. The Red Sox are a top-tier organization. Someone with ambition will take the job. And it isn’t like they destroy people. Theo did fine when he left. Cherington, despite being awful, got another executive job. DD immediately got hired. Bloom will land on his feet. But the point is that Bloom wasn't Tampa Bay's #1, and there's very little reason to think that any #1 that the Red Sox would actually want is going to be interested given the environment. Why would, say, Antonetti want to leave a sweet gig in Cleveland where he can win regularly without rabid dogs howling at his door? The most likely scenario is hiring someone with a profile very similar to what Bloom had when he was hired (#2 who wants the chance to run the show), in which case you're gambling that the new person will have whatever ineffable quality that Bloom evidently lacked, without any particular evidence to back it up. I've heard this elsewhere... Who will want this job after how they treated Bloom: The answer is every baseball ops hotshot in the country, Every small market PBO in baseball, even big market guys who can get out of their contracts and that aren't yet at the very top of their profession. Every scout, talent evaluator, former POBO's, many managers, broadcasters, agents, ex players, minor league GMs, everyone in this board (joke) anyone who has an inkling to run a team. This job is a dream job even back when Chaim was hired and there were many questions marks, bad contracts etc. it was a dream job. All these candidates rose to the MLB and then rose to the front office because if you have the talent, the brains and the drive to hang in this business, you believe in yourself enough to think you'll kick ass as the boss. You're one of the best baseball executive in the world, they'll all want the job. Especially in a big market, especially with a built in fan base, especially with the trajectory of the Team, especially with a historic franchise wanting to win, especially because even if these things don't move you Henry's money will lure even guys in great gigs. this is a plum job, one of the best in all of sports, the people who succeed here are only the creamiest of the cream. They'll have no problem finding a guy. I don't want Cora and I like Cora and think he'd eventually be able to handle the job. not now though. I think Antonetti is the guy, if his contract status/Cleveland allows
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Post by patford on Sept 15, 2023 12:55:51 GMT -5
Having a hard time why anyone would think of this as a dream job. Sounds more like a complete nightmare to me. The most toxic media and fan base in MLB and an owner who fired people for following his edicts.
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Post by notstarboard on Sept 15, 2023 12:57:50 GMT -5
I seriously don't understand the Alex Cora angle. My personal opinions of him aside, he has no experience doing anything like this job. He doesn't seem remotely qualified.
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Post by notstarboard on Sept 15, 2023 12:58:23 GMT -5
I don’t think I’ve seen his named mentioned by the talking heads but how would you feel about Jeff Luhnow? Absolutely not. I'm tired of rooting for cheaters.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 15, 2023 13:01:54 GMT -5
Just getting to the Podcast now. The first 20 minutes provide a very compelling case against Bloom, even as they pivot to the case for. But regarding the next guy, it seems like getting him (or her) soon is key, because the Sox need to have a FA plan in place the second rhe market opens.
I think the guys might bail the main issue: Bloom’s FA record has not been very good. Partly that is poor PR (naming targets then missing). But a lot is substantive. His two big signings disappointed (and Masa could become a problem if he must occupy the DH spot). And especially this off season, the pitching failures were critical.
Anyway, the point is the next person must prioritize FAs… they need to get someone with a stomach for it (which might actually mean a mix of Bloom’s analysis and Dombrowski’s decisiveness).
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 15, 2023 13:15:54 GMT -5
I seriously don't understand the Alex Cora angle. My personal opinions of him aside, he has no experience doing anything like this job. He doesn't seem remotely qualified. He does have some experience internationally running the PR team, albeit that is not the same as running one of the 30 MLB clubs. Would it be the worst thing if he moves up into the office? No, provided they bring in someone with experience to mentor him a-la a Sabien. That being said, I'd rather have a Gomes, Antonetti, even Josh Daniels, with Cora being the fall-back if none of those can be acquired.
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Post by joshuacoffee on Sept 15, 2023 13:19:08 GMT -5
I find this to be a really weird idea. I think Cora is a good enough manager, but it seems like an awfully different skill set from POBO. And if he has a weakness in the way he manages, it's that he rides with his favorites way beyond the point of reason, which doesn't seem like it bodes especially well for how he might handle talent acquisition. Comments like "the goal is to win games, not build the farm system" might just be reflective of his role as manager, but they also don't give me more reason to believe he'd make a great POBO. This terrifies me about his ability to run a front office. I want no part in him running the Red Sox. I wouldn't mind him getting some experience here under someone else so he could go somewhere else at some point though. It's not that there are no positives about him, I just don't want him making the final call.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Sept 15, 2023 13:23:46 GMT -5
Agree that it will be easy to find someone who wants to run this team. Expansive coffers, farm system that's compared to the Orioles (love Passan), good young core, and no LT situation. Couple that with the pedigree of The Boston Red Sox and we should be able to get whoever we want. So why would we hire our manager who has zero front office experience and has shown a disdain for player development (albeit in a managing role, but those comments will haunt me.)
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Post by incandenza on Sept 15, 2023 13:25:34 GMT -5
Just getting to the Podcast now. The first 20 minutes provide a very compelling case against Bloom, even as they pivot to the case for. But regarding the next guy, it seems like getting him (or her) soon is key, because the Sox need to have a FA plan in place the second rhe market opens. I think the guys might bail the main issue: Bloom’s FA record has not been very good. Partly that is poor PR (naming targets then missing). But a lot is substantive. His two big signings disappointed (and Masa could become a problem if he must occupy the DH spot). And especially this off season, the pitching failures were critical. Anyway, the point is the next person must prioritize FAs… they need to get someone with a stomach for it (which might actually mean a mix of Bloom’s analysis and Dombrowski’s decisiveness). Ever since Theo left, it's like they've been able to get pieces of Theo back - Bloom's brain, Dombrowski's courage, Cherington's heart* - but they haven't been able to put the pieces together all at once. Whither the yellow brick road next?
*okay, don't know if "heart" really works for Cherington, he was more like a brain guy too, but I'm doing an extended metaphor here
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 15, 2023 13:26:06 GMT -5
Guys, I'm pretty sure the manager that's firmly on the hot seat with a lot of baggage is not a serious candidate. It doesn't make any sense and there's zero sourced reporting saying that it's a possibility.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Sept 15, 2023 13:28:53 GMT -5
Guys, I'm pretty sure the manager that's firmly on the hot seat with a lot of baggage is not a serious candidate. It doesn't make any sense and there's zero sourced reporting saying that it's a possibility. Where there's smoke there's fire. SP guys on the pod talked about it, Carrabis talked about it, Cora has expressed interest in it, and Kennedy and Cora's comments did nothing to dispel the fear. It also seems like Cora has an incredibly outsized influence on the organization, based on comments about him in the last day. Not sure he's actually on the hot seat at all, but rather, but rather gunning for a promotion.
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Post by rhswanzey on Sept 15, 2023 13:30:59 GMT -5
I think the Cora talk is more about him entering the offseason with a lame duck contract and no boss. Supporting him - loudly - in public, as well as floating through back channels consideration for a front office position, may be about attempting to retain him as manager beyond 2024, rather than actually considering turning over the keys to someone with no front office experience outside of a winter league.
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 15, 2023 13:40:16 GMT -5
So if Cora is promoted to the Front Office, will he still be deciding when to go to the bullpen?
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Post by bg23 on Sept 15, 2023 13:47:01 GMT -5
I would be fine with Cora moving to the front office. Although I often disagree with some of his decisions, he still seems to be a good baseball mind. What I wouldn’t want is him immediately becoming the CBO with no other experience as a member of a front office. An assistant GM or even GM under whoever the next CBO would be fine by me, but I don’t want to trust the biggest Red Sox free agency in the recent past to a guy who has never been in the front office. As far as internal candidates, I would much prefer Raquel Farreira or Eddie Romero for the head job.
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Post by 0ap0 on Sept 15, 2023 13:50:09 GMT -5
This notion that Boston has a toxic fanbase and sports media is truly bizarre to me. It doesn't even have an unusual fanbase or media. It just has a fanbase. And media.
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Post by Smittyw on Sept 15, 2023 13:51:10 GMT -5
Make Cora a special assistant and everyone's happy. Anything more doesn't feel warranted.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 15, 2023 14:55:01 GMT -5
I'll preface this by saying I don't want Cora leading the baseball ops and running the team however with some of his comments this year about well this is the team we got which were to me clearly a shot at Bloom's team building part of me wants to see him do it to see what he'd do if he's so smart.
Stupid rationale I know and probably wouldn't be for the best of the organization but at the same time I guess who knows, maybe it would work out. I would say I wouldn't be outright shocked if Cora succeeded in the role. He'd probably need an experienced advisor group to help in the beginning.
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 15, 2023 15:15:06 GMT -5
This notion that Boston has a toxic fanbase and sports media is truly bizarre to me. It doesn't even have an unusual fanbase or media. It just has a fanbase. And media. Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 15, 2023 15:23:09 GMT -5
This notion that Boston has a toxic fanbase and sports media is truly bizarre to me. It doesn't even have an unusual fanbase or media. It just has a fanbase. And media. Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago. I don't know, I feel like almost every major sports city feels this way about every other cities fans. Every major team has rowdy fans who get angry and are unpleasant. I don't think really think Boston is that much different than anywhere else. If you asked me about Chicago fans I'd probably say the same thing as your Chicago friends say about Boston fans. They're an angry bunch and are unpleasant. I don't know if they're arrogant, perhaps that is a Boston thing since Boston fans have been rather spoiled between all the championships won from the teams in town since 2002 when the Pats dynasty started.
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 15, 2023 15:33:16 GMT -5
Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago. I don't know, I feel like almost every major sports city feels this way about every other cities fans. Every major team has rowdy fans who get angry and are unpleasant. I don't think really think Boston is that much different than anywhere else. If you asked me about Chicago fans I'd probably say the same thing as your Chicago friends say about Boston fans. They're an angry bunch and are unpleasant. I don't know if they're arrogant, perhaps that is a Boston thing since Boston fans have been rather spoiled between all the championships won from the teams in town since 2002 when the Pats dynasty started. To be clear, this is not a thing that Chicago fans say (though I think they’re quite a bit tamer than Boston fans, they’re much better at detaching their emotional state from the team, presumably due to decades of experience). Chicago’s a pretty big melting pot city and this sentiment cuts across fandoms and geographic boundaries.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 15, 2023 15:59:04 GMT -5
This notion that Boston has a toxic fanbase and sports media is truly bizarre to me. It doesn't even have an unusual fanbase or media. It just has a fanbase. And media. Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago. Uhhh… NYer here. No one… and I mean NO one… beats a Yankees fan. I think many of the major NE/mid-Atlantic cities can likely make a case for their fan bases. I’ll say this… American fans have not reached the level of toxicity of European fans.
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Post by cheers on Sept 15, 2023 16:11:04 GMT -5
This notion that Boston has a toxic fanbase and sports media is truly bizarre to me. It doesn't even have an unusual fanbase or media. It just has a fanbase. And media. Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago. Honestly, I think that Sox fan expats get tarred with the Pats' fan brush. Pats fans really ARE that obnoxious, IMO.
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 15, 2023 16:30:55 GMT -5
Having lived in and out of the Boston media market I’d have to disagree. All I have to do is tell someone I’m a Boston fan and they immediately assume I’m angry, arrogant, and all around unpleasant to watch sports with. I’ve had multiple friends tell me I’m the first Boston sports fan they’ve ever met who wasn’t completely unbearable since I moved to Chicago. Uhhh… NYer here. No one… and I mean NO one… beats a Yankees fan. I think many of the major NE/mid-Atlantic cities can likely make a case for their fan bases. I’ll say this… American fans have not reached the level of toxicity of European fans. This is a fair point! I think they associate that aspect with being a New Yorker rather than with being a Yankees fan, which is another interesting regional dynamic. And you couldn’t be more right about European fans, I started following soccer a lot closer when Covid shut everything down and they’re a different breed over there. The thing that always gets brought up to me is that we’re almost as bad as NY/PHI fans in a general sense, but we’re also enormous know-it-alls so it’s more grating. I try to be careful with my tone since I know I won’t do Red Sox Nation many favors in that department if I don’t.
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