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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 9, 2023 14:57:00 GMT -5
I'd be cool with the entire staff going.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Oct 9, 2023 15:14:10 GMT -5
No doubt Cora's phone is ringing already with pitching coach candidates. It is exciting opportunity for a new coach up to the the challenge of getting Houk and Crawford to the next level as starters, Whitlock as an elite reliver.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 9, 2023 16:20:15 GMT -5
I know there are probably a 1000 reasons why not, but if JBJ was ready to retire, I think he could be an amazing 3rd base coach. Not many people out there as familiar with Fenway's outfield or as good as reading the ball off the bat. Good guy to have on the bench as well as a mentor for the young guys. dude that is sneaky great idea. I think JBJ would be an awesome asset for a coach on a staff. I never saw a better center fielder in my lifetime.
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Post by terriblehondo on Oct 9, 2023 18:09:10 GMT -5
This is a big nothing-burger. Story and Turner were affected by injuries. Devers had a good year but not quite up to his high standards. Hernandez was a big flop, both for the FO and the coaches. Other than that, it's a bunch of names that were not expected to be important contributors (which is more an indictment of the FO than the coaches).
A "nothingburger"? Is there supposed to be some ideological valence to the idea that the hitters underperformed expectations? I don't even know if the coaching is really to blame, but it seems undeniably the case with at least half of the lineup - Devers, Yoshida, Story, Verdugo, Kiké, and Arroyo without question. Turner because of his late season injury, yes, but ZiPS incorporates the possibility of injury so you can't explain away the team-wide underperformance on that basis. So most guys underperformed? Weren't you the one saying that the Sox final win total was one over projection? Then that would mean the coaches did a great job right? Would that mean the coaches did a bad job because the players underperformed? Would that mean the projections are nothing but SWAG?
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Post by soxfaninnj on Oct 9, 2023 19:04:26 GMT -5
@tawainsox I’m sure your gonna miss those bush visits to the mound.
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 9, 2023 19:13:11 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 9, 2023 20:12:00 GMT -5
@tawainsox I’m sure your gonna miss those bush visits to the mound. Yeah the mound visit —> in play run(s) sequence was the best part of 2023 lol Hopefully we get someone who’s less deer in the headlights…
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Post by chaimtime on Oct 9, 2023 20:46:49 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless better get this guy in a front office so he can tell everyone how stupid they are for using projections to build their teams
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Post by incandenza on Oct 9, 2023 21:03:13 GMT -5
A "nothingburger"? Is there supposed to be some ideological valence to the idea that the hitters underperformed expectations? I don't even know if the coaching is really to blame, but it seems undeniably the case with at least half of the lineup - Devers, Yoshida, Story, Verdugo, Kiké, and Arroyo without question. Turner because of his late season injury, yes, but ZiPS incorporates the possibility of injury so you can't explain away the team-wide underperformance on that basis. So most guys underperformed? Weren't you the one saying that the Sox final win total was one over projection? Then that would mean the coaches did a great job right? Would that mean the coaches did a bad job because the players underperformed? Would that mean the projections are nothing but SWAG? No that wasn't me.
I'm not even saying the hitting coaches did a bad job; there are a ton of variables and I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on it. I'm just saying the hitting was a bit worse than projected.
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 9, 2023 21:16:47 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless better get this guy in a front office so he can tell everyone how stupid they are for using projections to build their teams No like that’s my point…. Why have an FO if Zips projections are there for us? They are fairly useless in practice (pre-season projections that is)
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Post by keninten on Oct 9, 2023 21:24:21 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless So is it better to go with no projections?
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 9, 2023 21:44:22 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless So is it better to go with no projections? No I think we need more nuance of thought here. Saying coaches should be fired because a bunch of hitters fell short of their Zips projections seems very over simplified If that’s the case then the coaching staff pulled miracles for duran this year
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,003
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Post by cdj on Oct 9, 2023 23:17:18 GMT -5
Febles has been in the org for a loooooong time
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Post by iakovos11 on Oct 10, 2023 7:43:52 GMT -5
Febles has been in the org for a loooooong time Paul Abbot, too. I thought he was very highly respected.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 10, 2023 9:43:56 GMT -5
Fatse teaches how to take a fastball right down broadway for a third strike called. I don't know how many times I saw that this year that snuffed out rallies. I don't know any philosophy of hitting that teaches that. Analytics? You need a different form of analytics if that is the case. I am sick of all the called third strikes from fastballs.
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 10, 2023 10:21:17 GMT -5
Using preseason highly flawed projections before the season starts as a means of judgment seems very useless So is it better to go with no projections? Guide NOT Gospel
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 10, 2023 20:14:36 GMT -5
Gee..I wonder who the Texas Rangers hitting coach is?
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Post by bluechip on Oct 10, 2023 23:23:34 GMT -5
Febles has been in the org for a loooooong time Paul Abbot, too. I thought he was very highly respected. Both of them worked their way through the minor league coaching ranks from the bottom. Through multiple front office/regime changes.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 10, 2023 23:27:59 GMT -5
Gee..I wonder who the Texas Rangers hitting coach is? Tim Hyers turned the Red Sox down, not the opposite.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,790
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Post by nomar on Oct 11, 2023 8:53:24 GMT -5
Regardless of the sport, whenever a head coach stays and almost all of the assistant coaches get axed, it’s usually only a matter of time before the head coach fails again and this time can’t pass the buck. I say just clean house and thank Cora for the good times, but he seems to have ownership eating from the palm of his hand. I like Cora, but think the best thing for the clubhouse would be a fresh start.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 11, 2023 11:03:16 GMT -5
I would have to believe that Cora's guys getting axed can't be too good for his standing. Just surprised that Fatse wasn't let go too.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 13, 2023 2:03:36 GMT -5
Febles has been in the org for a loooooong time Paul Abbot, too. I thought he was very highly respected. Abbot would have been my choice to replace Bush. He was my choice to be Bush a couple of years ago.
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Post by kingstephanos on Oct 13, 2023 19:05:13 GMT -5
I would have to believe that Cora's guys getting axed can't be too good for his standing. Just surprised that Fatse wasn't let go too. We can only hope.
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Post by dirtdog on Oct 13, 2023 21:09:13 GMT -5
I dont have a problem moving on from Bush. I will say with some of the retreads Bloom handed him, he must of thought to himself, how many times can I turn chicken feathers into chicken salad. Seemed like he was asked to do it on an all too regular basis.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 14, 2023 15:36:45 GMT -5
When there's failure, someone's gotta go. Bush is the scapegoat for the pitching analytics department. They should have been gone after the Houck mismanagement fiasco earlier this year. That stuff isn't on Bush.
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