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Post by raftsox on May 3, 2013 8:20:55 GMT -5
Vitek is not even a prospect IMO anymore, but Almanzar and Shaw are. With Cecchini in Portland they do something like this. This is funny to me. [there's no need for extra conversation about this people, just appreciate the irony]
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2013 8:33:40 GMT -5
Cecchini and Coyle should be promoted if they stay hot for another 3 weeks or so. They need to be challenged. Harder for a batter to work on certain things when the pitching isn't good enough anymore. It's not like a pitcher who controls things. Neither Shaw nor Almanzar should affect Cecchinis development and Vitek certainly shouldn't. However, a move lie this could push Vitek to the outfield some. Lets face it, his best shot is as a super sub. I can see him hitting for decent average with alright on base skills. If he could play, outfield as well as a few infield spots adequately then he could make it to the majors. Portland has playing time available at the corner OF spots.
Almanzar is fine where he is level wise. Let him have sustained success for the first time in his career.
Owens should only get promoted at the end of the year for a taste of AA if that's where he'll be next season, unless he makes incredible strides and is dominating. I'm a big believer in top prospects getting a taste of the next level prior to the offseason. Lets them know what to expect and eases the transition.
Ranaudo should follow a similar path to Owens. Pitchers get promoted from AA quite often. He's far enough down the depth chart that this really isn't of concern anyways. Let him continue his success in AA and get a taste of AAA come August or whenever. As long as he gets a start or two there he's on a good time table.
Workman - similar deal to Ranaudo. If Pawtucket needs a starter then, I'd be more agressive with Workman.
Britton - not exactly dominating - could be promoted if Pawtucket needed someone. Not because he's more deserving, but because they care more about Workman and Ranaudo. I think he should be moved to the pen soon as his clock is ticking. Put Couch into the rotation.
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Post by sibbysisti on May 3, 2013 9:24:12 GMT -5
I doubt Cecchini gets called up soon because Portland already has two third basemen in Vitek and Almanzar. I believe Shaw, Almanzar and Vitek all deserve to play every day, and Cecchini should not take that away. Can't agree about Vitek. Just look at the numbers throughout his MiL career. Lack of power #s from a position where better production is expected. While his BA/OBP this season is respectable thusfar, he has a long way to go to deserve more playing time. If Cecchini is deemed ready for promotion, there would be no negative impact on the team, IMO. Almanzar appears destined for 1B because of his defense. That position is one that could use a bat like Almanzar in this org.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on May 3, 2013 12:01:46 GMT -5
I don't think Almanzar or Vitek will block Cecchini if he continues to hit anywhere near where he is now. The Sox surely would promote him to find out as soon as possible whether they have someone special. The Sox have no viable replacement at either Pawtucket or Portland if Middlebrooks suffers a serious injury, or simply doesn't hit any better than he is.
There are more options at AAA and AA for a replacement for Pedroia if he got hurt, but not great ones. So the same rationale might apply to Coyle.
If Almanzar continues to hit like he has, he should be moved up to Pawtucket.
It seems a little early for any of these moves. Towards the end of the month, or early in June when the short seasons start, would seem to be the more likely times for some significant moves.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 3, 2013 15:30:01 GMT -5
I think that Ranaudo and Workman need to get promotions. One based on there outstanding production but also there age for the level there at. They should be in AAA soon. I admit that fist base looked bleak but with Almanzar, this position is looking more promising.
I am so pumped for this draft. Not just the 1st round being the 7th pick but every round we have a high pick and with our record we probably won't be in this position again. I have a sick feeling that Theo is going to try to take Amiel away from us after the 3 year embargo.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on May 3, 2013 21:24:47 GMT -5
Brian Johnson In may
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on May 5, 2013 7:36:41 GMT -5
I know he is young, but Henry Owens has dominated with nothing but quality starts and missed bats.
Some risk in promoting too early but I think there is also risk in not being challenged.
He is exceptional.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on May 5, 2013 10:10:45 GMT -5
I expect most of our promotions to come around our draft day or later.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,983
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Post by jimoh on May 5, 2013 10:35:54 GMT -5
I think that Workman and Ranaudo should be promoted when their work shows that they're ready to be there.
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Post by raftsox on May 6, 2013 8:57:45 GMT -5
I think that Workman and Ranaudo should be promoted when their work shows that they're ready to be there. Thank you. I cringed at the earlier post.
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Post by Guidas on May 6, 2013 9:43:40 GMT -5
Chris Martin, please. Either send Wilson down or bring him up for Bailey if he is DL'd.
Drop Holt, Hassan and prob Butler (gasp - this from a big Butler fan) from 40 man. Holt is redundant X 3 (Ciriaco, Sutton, Dent). And, yes, I understand Holt has options. Now go clear some 40 Man space and let someone else control him, Ben.
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Post by dogsfan on May 7, 2013 19:47:48 GMT -5
Can't agree about Vitek. Just look at the numbers throughout his MiL career. Lack of power #s from a position where better production is expected. While his BA/OBP this season is respectable thusfar, he has a long way to go to deserve more playing time. If Cecchini is deemed ready for promotion, there would be no negative impact on the team, IMO. Almanzar appears destined for 1B because of his defense. That position is one that could use a bat like Almanzar in this org. Vitek was hurt most of last year and a lot in 2011. He has had a solid start to 2013, and I think he deserves a chance to prove himself. He was once a pretty high prospect, but the injuries slowed him. Even if sending him to Salem would give him more ABs, I would do that. Also, Travis Shaw is not a prospect. He batted like .225 last year and this year he's batting third for the sea dogs and hit his first HR today. Watching him he isn't a great defensive first baseman either.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 7, 2013 20:23:47 GMT -5
Travis Shaw hit .287/.397/.517 across two levels last year.
Compare that to Vitek's "solid" start this year: .255/.356/.333
Vitek has displayed virtually no power since joining the organization. He is also a defensive liability.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 7, 2013 20:38:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll take Shaw over Vitek in a heartbeat.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 7, 2013 22:11:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll take Shaw over Vitek in a heartbeat. Me, too. I really, really wish the Sox hadn't wasted a 1st round pick on Vitek and I'm not second guessing. He seemed like a tweener at best, a guy with some power but not really alot who cannot play an up the middle position and would wind up at a corner spot. I doubt Vitek ever makes it past AAA. Shaw has a pretty advanced approach and a shot at playing in the majors in the future. I wish his approach at the plate would rub off on Middlebrooks who possesses the talent that Shaw doesn't have, but I think Shaw gets a lot out of his abilities.
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Post by pkelly491 on May 7, 2013 22:25:04 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I don't have high hopes for Shaw either but he is much more on my radar than Vitek at this point.
Cecchini with a 2B and a HR today. He needs to be challenged in Portland sooner rather than later IMO.
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Post by dewey1972 on May 7, 2013 22:34:12 GMT -5
I think people are not looking closely enough at the underlying issues with Coyle. The power is fantastic, but he continues to not walk enough and strike out too much. I'm not saying he's not doing well, but unless you think he is the next coming of Giancarlo Stanton and can hit 50 home runs in the majors, it doesn't seem like he's doing enough things well to warrant consideration for an early promotion. On the other hand, Cecchini is walking more than he's striking out and showing somewhat improved power. In addition, he's nine months older, so it makes some sense to put him in a more difficult position.
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Post by pkelly491 on May 7, 2013 22:45:17 GMT -5
I think people are not looking closely enough at the underlying issues with Coyle. The power is fantastic, but he continues to not walk enough and strike out too much. I'm not saying he's not doing well, but unless you think he is the next coming of Giancarlo Stanton and can hit 50 home runs in the majors, it doesn't seem like he's doing enough things well to warrant consideration for an early promotion. On the other hand, Cecchini is walking more than he's striking out and showing somewhat improved power. In addition, he's nine months older, so it makes some sense to put him in a more difficult position. Agreed, Cecchini's approach at the plate is more advanced than almost any hitters in the system (except maybe JBJ). In fact, what he's doing in Salem right now reminds me a lot of what Jackie did there last year, but with even more pop. Coyle, on the other hand does have a lot more holes in his swing, but he has proven worth for a promotion soon being there for over a full season now, and producing good results this year. Both probably will be in Portland at some point this year, but Cecchini is the more ready of the two and clearly the better prospect. I think he could/should be the #2 prospect in the system by the time the year's done and JBJ/Webster have both graduated from prospect status. He could possibly be a Top 50 prospect in baseball for 2014, whereas Coyle probably isn't breaking the Top 100 unless he hits 30+ HRs this year.
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Post by hammerhead on May 8, 2013 8:12:57 GMT -5
I think people are not looking closely enough at the underlying issues with Coyle. The power is fantastic, but he continues to not walk enough and strike out too much. I'm not saying he's not doing well, but unless you think he is the next coming of Giancarlo Stanton and can hit 50 home runs in the majors, it doesn't seem like he's doing enough things well to warrant consideration for an early promotion. On the other hand, Cecchini is walking more than he's striking out and showing somewhat improved power. In addition, he's nine months older, so it makes some sense to put him in a more difficult position. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you are overvaluing BB/K ratio if that is even possible. Coyle is repeating the year in Salem and he is absolutely crushing it. It's hard to walk a lot when you are hitting that much. The walks will come... Does he need to fine tune his approach? Absolutely, but he's a second baseman, a position usually devoid of power. He can work on pitch selection in Portland as easily as in Salem and at least we'll have a better idea how "real" his numbers are. Why take pitches when you're not being challenged.
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Post by threeifbaerga on May 8, 2013 8:28:51 GMT -5
It's tough to tell a kid to take more pitches when he's got 6 home runs in his last 10 games.
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Post by dogsfan on May 10, 2013 13:06:48 GMT -5
Travis Shaw hit .287/.397/.517 across two levels last year. Compare that to Vitek's "solid" start this year: .255/.356/.333 Vitek has displayed virtually no power since joining the organization. He is also a defensive liability. Shaw hit around .220 last year in AA and is struggling again this year. Vitek started the year off hot, and has never really gotten a chance. He only plays half the games, and the past two years he's been hurt a lot. Just give him a couple months and he could do something.
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Post by jmei on May 10, 2013 13:20:10 GMT -5
If you're going to cite one stat in an attempt to sum up a player's offensive contribution, batting average is not that stat. Shaw's .391 OBP this year is better than any OBP Vitek has ever put up, and his 115 wRC+ (a career low for Shaw, by the way) is better than anything Vitek has put up above Greenville.
I'm not a huge Shaw fan (I think he tops out as a AAAA-type player) and I think Vitek still has some prospect potential (he really struggled with injuries last year). I also agree with the broader point that Cecchini can spend another month or two in Salem and that Vitek, Almanzar, and Shaw all deserve semi-regular at bats in Portland. I just intensely disagree with citing batting average as if it's a stat that really counts for much.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 11, 2013 9:40:14 GMT -5
It's tough to tell a kid to take more pitches when he's got 6 home runs in his last 10 games. This may be true, but when that same kid strikes out in over 25% of his plate appearances, this year and last despite repeating the same level (A-ball) it's a real problem. Great, a second baseman with power. Give me a second baseman who's a good all around hitter with good contact rates. Coyle's contact issues are a MAJOR problem. Possibly even a fatal flaw in his game. If he's striking out at close to a 30% clip now, what will he do at the higher levels? Some like to compare him to Pedroia, but they are entirely different. The most Pedey has ever struck out was 85 times (a lot higher then his second highest season) and it took him over 700 plate appearances to do it. He also walked more then he struck out that same year. Coyle is on pace to K over 175 times in A ball if he got 700 plate appearances. That's God awful and in line with last year. The only difference is the home runs, which we have no reason to believe is anything but an abnormality at this point.
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Post by mjammz on May 11, 2013 10:22:18 GMT -5
Chris Martin to Pawtucket via @seadogsradio
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Post by Guidas on May 11, 2013 10:55:23 GMT -5
'Bout time. On to Boston soon, please.
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