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2023-2024 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 21, 2024 16:21:03 GMT -5
I have no love for the dodgers but I still want to see Yamamoto be good. Him being good I feel is better for the league overall. It wouldn't make me said if he's a bust but I don't understand actively rooting for him to stink.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Mar 21, 2024 16:21:46 GMT -5
I'd be ok if he ended up being a barely serviceable #4/5 for $325mm for however long he can hold up to the workload here. Interesting to see that if he's only that or worse what does that do for Sasaki.
Of course having LAD suffer is alllmost as good as having the MFY suffer so it would be fun to hand Yamamoto and Ohtani around their necks for a decade LOL
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Post by chaimtime on Mar 21, 2024 16:37:07 GMT -5
Woof, maybe sox dodged a bullet with Yamamoto. Maybe 325M doesn't buy you what it used to. I'm mostly kidding he'll be alright but rough first start. I am ecstatic to see Yamamoto get his ass kicked. I would have loved to see the Dodgers go 3-159 (3-0 vs Yankees would would be 0-162). The Dodgers trying to buy a WS out spending the next team by tens of millions. The Dodgers have neither the highest payroll nor highest CBT number this year. Even if you add in the money they have to put in escrow for Ohtani’s deferred salary, they’re still not at the top of the league for payroll.
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Post by chaimtime on Mar 21, 2024 16:40:51 GMT -5
I guess you're acknowledging the tax dodge? In that case, doesn't it bug you that this was presented by his representatives as a selfless act whereby he was allowing the Dodgers to spend on other players to field a winning team when it was actually a way for him to pocket more money.
It also bugs me that a hundred-millionaire would seek to avoid contributing their share to the overall good of a society that has made him one of the wealthiest people ever to live - even after taxes. But I won't try to convince you to see that the same way as I do.
IT IS NOT A TAX DODGE! IT IS NOT ONLY LEGAL, BUT INTELLIGENT. If you do not understand that, then you are not. How Ohtani spins it… I could care less. The real question is how MLB regulates it. Does deferred money circumvent the CBT rules! Tax avoidance is not illegal, as demonstrated by Ohtani’s perfectly legal tax avoidance scheme. I think it is fair to describe it as a tax dodge, as the main purpose of it is to avoid paying tens of millions of dollars in taxes. Deferred money does not circumvent the CBT rules. Ohtani counts for around $47 million for CBT purposes.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 21, 2024 16:49:31 GMT -5
I guess you're acknowledging the tax dodge? In that case, doesn't it bug you that this was presented by his representatives as a selfless act whereby he was allowing the Dodgers to spend on other players to field a winning team when it was actually a way for him to pocket more money.
It also bugs me that a hundred-millionaire would seek to avoid contributing their share to the overall good of a society that has made him one of the wealthiest people ever to live - even after taxes. But I won't try to convince you to see that the same way as I do.
IT IS NOT A TAX DODGE! IT IS NOT ONLY LEGAL, BUT INTELLIGENT. If you do not understand that, then you are not. As for your other misguided comment, the top 10% income earners pay 50% of ALL taxes in the USA, whereas the bottom 50% of earners pay almost nothing. The bottom 20% not only pay nothing, but are subsidized with your and my tax dollars. How Ohtani spins it… I could care less. The real question is how MLB regulates it. Does deferred money circumvent the CBT rules! Yep. Definitely not gonna try to convince you.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 21, 2024 16:56:40 GMT -5
Tax avoidance is not illegal, as demonstrated by Ohtani’s perfectly legal tax avoidance scheme. I think it is fair to describe it as a tax dodge, as the main purpose of it is to avoid paying tens of millions of dollars in taxes. Deferred money does not circumvent the CBT rules. Ohtani counts for around $47 million for CBT purposes. So what you are saying is that everyone who does not live in California is committing a tax dodge, because they choose not to pay a higher state tax. This proves that person finance needs to be taught in school as almost no one understands how taxes, investing, and law works (certainly on this site). Luckily, you are here.
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Post by chaimtime on Mar 21, 2024 17:08:30 GMT -5
Tax avoidance is not illegal, as demonstrated by Ohtani’s perfectly legal tax avoidance scheme. I think it is fair to describe it as a tax dodge, as the main purpose of it is to avoid paying tens of millions of dollars in taxes. Deferred money does not circumvent the CBT rules. Ohtani counts for around $47 million for CBT purposes. So what you are saying is that everyone who does not live in California is committing a tax dodge, because they choose not to pay a higher state tax. This proves that person finance needs to be taught in school as almost no one understands how taxes, investing, and law works (certainly on this site). I mean, he’s devised a compensation scheme such that he can work in the state of California, receive compensation for the work done in the state of California, maintain a primary residence in the state of California, and take advantage of a loophole in the system such that he does not have to pay California state taxes on the vast majority of said compensation. Sounds like a tax dodge to me. Like I said, totally legal and above board, but very obviously motivated by a desire to reduce his tax bill compared to a standard payment scheme. This is different from everyone else who does not live in the state of California, because they are not being compensated for work done in the state of California for an employer based in the state of California.
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Post by yuchangclan on Mar 21, 2024 19:05:34 GMT -5
So what you are saying is that everyone who does not live in California is committing a tax dodge, because they choose not to pay a higher state tax. This proves that person finance needs to be taught in school as almost no one understands how taxes, investing, and law works (certainly on this site). I mean, he’s devised a compensation scheme such that he can work in the state of California, receive compensation for the work done in the state of California, maintain a primary residence in the state of California, and take advantage of a loophole in the system such that he does not have to pay California state taxes on the vast majority of said compensation. Sounds like a tax dodge to me. Like I said, totally legal and above board, but very obviously motivated by a desire to reduce his tax bill compared to a standard payment scheme. This is different from everyone else who does not live in the state of California, because they are not being compensated for work done in the state of California for an employer based in the state of California. Don’t forget that basically all of big tech is based in California, as well. This is the land of the CEO taking a $1 salary so that is all that is shown for W2 wages. Meanwhile they are getting $200m in stock options because they are taxed less than regular wages. If there’s a loophole in existence, there is a zillionaire in CA to exploit it. That’s just how the system works. Nobody wants to pay any more in taxes than they have to.
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Post by asm18 on Mar 21, 2024 19:31:40 GMT -5
JD Martinez to the Mets
Per Andy Martino, “$4.5MM this year. $1.5MM a year deferred from 2034-38. Pending physical.”
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Post by incandenza on Mar 21, 2024 20:57:48 GMT -5
JDM turned down 1/14 from the Giants because he wanted a multi-year deal. Ended up getting 1/9 from the Mets, taking deferrals into account. Boras client.
(And I mean what is up with those deferrals. That is just face-saving, right?)
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,799
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Post by nomar on Mar 21, 2024 21:06:51 GMT -5
Didn’t know where to post but this was funny for those who just watched Kentucky get upset
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 21, 2024 21:20:49 GMT -5
(And I mean what is up with those deferrals. That is just face-saving, right?)
Players just value these deferred payment schemes more than an investment bank would. I'm sure Bobby Bonilla has tremendously enjoyed each of his yearly checks. They can also be a good practice for players that have bad spending habits, although JD does not strike me as one of those cases.
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Post by yuchangclan on Mar 21, 2024 23:00:19 GMT -5
JDM turned down 1/14 from the Giants because he wanted a multi-year deal. Ended up getting 1/9 from the Mets, taking deferrals into account. Boras client.
(And I mean what is up with those deferrals. That is just face-saving, right?)
Boras has been brutalized this Winter, but I can’t blame him too much here. JDM is a DH-only and very few teams figured to even be in the mix for his services to begin with. Then he didn’t want to go to SF for personal reasons and there was nobody left to bid. I always said that he should have played some 1B back in the day. I’m sure he would have been passable there. JDM one dimensional types are a dying breed these days. As for the deferrals, the answer is YES. It’s face-saving pure and simple. There’s no way he’d prefer to wait a decade plus for his services rendered in 2024. Ohtani was a strategic/unique situation. This was pure face-saving. Meanwhile, this is a great move for the Mets who got their guy on their terms for once.
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Post by asm18 on Mar 22, 2024 6:40:06 GMT -5
Mets lineup:
Nimmo - LF Lindor - SS Alonso - 1B JDM - DH McNeill - 2B Marte - RF Alvarez - C Baty - 3B Bader - CF
That’s actually a solid lineup. Unfortunately for the Mets, Kodai Senga is hurt and their opening day starter is Jose Quintana…
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Post by stevedillard on Mar 22, 2024 8:34:06 GMT -5
Funny to see Heyman (Boras) having to publicly thank Cohen for paying his client
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 22, 2024 9:16:19 GMT -5
Bruce Meyer states his case to stay in power:
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Post by chaimtime on Mar 22, 2024 10:15:17 GMT -5
One important point Meyer makes is that payrolls are up 30% league-wide under the new CBA. A lot has been made out of how teams don’t spend because it’s a race to 85 wins or whatever, but the facts simply don’t support that. More teams spent over the luxury tax than ever before last year, and players are getting a larger share of revenue than they were pre-pandemic.
I was skeptical of the “expanded playoffs will lead to more teams spending money to try to make a playoff push” arguments at the time, but they seem to have been correct. Or, at the very least, the “nobody will spend money because it’s not worth it to go for it” argument has not been correct.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Mar 22, 2024 10:19:22 GMT -5
Bruce Meyer states his case to stay in power: I ain't reading all that, Bruce I'm happy for you, though Or sorry that happened
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 22, 2024 11:00:51 GMT -5
One important point Meyer makes is that payrolls are up 30% league-wide under the new CBA. A lot has been made out of how teams don’t spend because it’s a race to 85 wins or whatever, but the facts simply don’t support that. More teams spent over the luxury tax than ever before last year, and players are getting a larger share of revenue than they were pre-pandemic. I was skeptical of the “expanded playoffs will lead to more teams spending money to try to make a playoff push” arguments at the time, but they seem to have been correct. Or, at the very least, the “nobody will spend money because it’s not worth it to go for it” argument has not been correct. I'm not sure how much CBA incentives signal you can capture from a 10,000 foot view given COVID, TV rights trends, and idiosyncratic owner behavior are going to be more important factors. The one really clear thing is that the luxury tax thresholds they negotiated don't keep up with monetary inflation and the penalties got harsher.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 22, 2024 11:48:37 GMT -5
The most important point Meyer makes, for me, is about the complete unwillingness of MLB - which carries the water for ownership - to ever consider: It took years, but club owners finally figured out that the aging curve informs decisions about big payouts - as opposed to vastly underpaying young talent in their pre-arb and even arbitration periods.
This is the one place where Marvin Miller's legacy hurts. He believed that having too many players in the market would devalue their worth. Neither he nor just about anyone else foresaw the flood of data that would become available for mining everywhere thanks to networked computing power. That data clearly revealed that the 5-6 years of cheap control coincided with the peak years for most players. It's simple to conclude that owners will fight like hell to maintain such extreme financial leverage.
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Post by chaimtime on Mar 22, 2024 12:07:41 GMT -5
One important point Meyer makes is that payrolls are up 30% league-wide under the new CBA. A lot has been made out of how teams don’t spend because it’s a race to 85 wins or whatever, but the facts simply don’t support that. More teams spent over the luxury tax than ever before last year, and players are getting a larger share of revenue than they were pre-pandemic. I was skeptical of the “expanded playoffs will lead to more teams spending money to try to make a playoff push” arguments at the time, but they seem to have been correct. Or, at the very least, the “nobody will spend money because it’s not worth it to go for it” argument has not been correct. I'm not sure how much CBA incentives signal you can capture from a 10,000 foot view given COVID, TV rights trends, and idiosyncratic owner behavior are going to be more important factors. The one really clear thing is that the luxury tax thresholds they negotiated don't keep up with monetary inflation and the penalties got harsher. For sure, that’s why I added the hedge at the end. But at the end of the day there are more reasons than ever before to not spend, and that’s just not happening. The tax threshold stuff is definitely not ideal for the players, but it’s also substantially better than what the owners wanted. Either way, as Oregon Norm pointed out, the biggest issue with the current CBA is the 6 years of team control meaning most players don’t hit the market until they’re in their decline phase, which is gonna be hard for the players to solve—probably impossible without a strike.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 22, 2024 14:08:27 GMT -5
Myles Straw on waivers. His remaining contract: 24:$4.5M, 25:$6M, 26:$7M, 27:$8M club option ($1.75M buyout), 28:$8.5M club option ($500,000 buyout)
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Post by yuchangclan on Mar 22, 2024 16:10:23 GMT -5
Orioles playing the service time manipulation game with Jackson Holliday, for sure. He’s clearly ready now.
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Post by sxfan on Mar 22, 2024 18:26:43 GMT -5
Orioles playing the service time manipulation game with Jackson Holliday, for sure. He’s clearly ready now. Mike Elias, GM of the Orioles playing the odds game. He knows he has a 33 percent odds favorite of winning the first round pick this year. Evan Carter and Wyatt Langford have huge huge odds of winning the Rangers a first round pick, versus Holliday. So instead of keeping him up like the did with Henderson, who was a huge favorite in 2023, they play the long game and get the savings instead of the draft pick. Elias reminds me of the game Theo used to play 15 years ago.
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