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Post by chaimtime on Nov 9, 2023 15:03:51 GMT -5
Verdugo for a righty second baseman seems like a pretty reasonable trade idea. Drury and Torres seem pretty similar to me as guys who would help balance the lineup and stabilize things at second. Torres isn’t a great fielder but he’s better than the collection of players we trotted out last year, and they have a little bit of defensive versatility.
Seems like a better idea than signing Whit Merrifield, at least.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 9, 2023 15:31:39 GMT -5
Apparently the Phils are interested. The mention is Nick Castellanos. But we don’t need another of, and I remember he’s not good defensively. Stott or Bohm, or some AA fire baller? Can't imagine they'd have any interest in dealing Stott coming off a 3.9 fWAR year with 4 years of control left for one year of Verdugo. Castellanos is a giant no for me and I don't see what Bohm would really help either. Don't know if they'd do it but I'd be interested in a guy like Ranger Suarez from them, been a solid pitcher the last 3 seasons and has 2 years of control left. He can slot in to both the rotation if need be or kick into the pen. They're not trading Ranger Suarez while losing Aaron Nola, even if Abel is coming soon.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 9, 2023 15:36:53 GMT -5
I’m in no way shape or form advocating this trade, but I was just playing with BTV and a trade that sends Verdugo/Angel Bastardo to the Yankees is accepted, and actually a slight overpay for Torres.
Torres offense, more than makes up for Verdugos defense. To be fair, both Verdugo and Torres have been better on offense and defense respectively in the past, but I think it’s fair to say Torres is marginally (yet noticeably) a better player than Alex.
I know I know, BTV doesn’t mean anything. It’s the tool I love to criticize and then go ahead and use myself. In this particular instance there seems to be a fit for both teams.
Also, I’d like to add that I’m very apologetic to have contributed to derailing another thread, but honored my comment started a new one.
I like Alex, and appear to be in the minority of people who are ok with keeping him in plugging him in RF for 2024. But I certainly would NOT hate a Verdugo for Torres trade.
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Post by ephus on Nov 9, 2023 15:49:09 GMT -5
I understand the unlikelihood of trading with a team like the Yankees, but a Gleyber Torres for Alex Verdugo trade could work for both teams. We might have to send a little bit more value their way but I don't think it would take anyone in the top 15. Well this caught fire.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 9, 2023 16:15:32 GMT -5
Can't imagine they'd have any interest in dealing Stott coming off a 3.9 fWAR year with 4 years of control left for one year of Verdugo. Castellanos is a giant no for me and I don't see what Bohm would really help either. Don't know if they'd do it but I'd be interested in a guy like Ranger Suarez from them, been a solid pitcher the last 3 seasons and has 2 years of control left. He can slot in to both the rotation if need be or kick into the pen. They're not trading Ranger Suarez while losing Aaron Nola, even if Abel is coming soon. Perhaps not but do we really think Dealing Dave is going to lose Nola and not go into FA and spend some money on pitching? I would agree that without adding more SP they aren't trading Suarez but after looking at their MLB roster I don't really see anyone else that should really interest the Sox. Castellanos isn't particularly good and is paid $20M a year for the next 3 years.
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Post by soxin8 on Nov 9, 2023 16:31:37 GMT -5
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Post by stevedillard on Nov 9, 2023 17:14:29 GMT -5
Is Verdugo eligible to be traded to the Yankees, given his beard?
(I'd do it in a heartbeat)
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 9, 2023 17:51:46 GMT -5
Apparently the Yankees are going to look into Kiermaier, so maybe Verdugo does interest them after all
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 9, 2023 17:59:43 GMT -5
Apparently the Yankees are going to look into Kiermaier, so maybe Verdugo does interest them after all Just what the Yankees need another historically often injured OFer! That aside he does seem a good fit for them.
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 9, 2023 18:33:11 GMT -5
Verdugo for Torres being reasonable as a report sounds like Red Sox propaganda
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Post by dirtdog on Nov 9, 2023 19:23:48 GMT -5
Fangraphs projects Torres 3.8 WAR next year and Verdugo 1.8.
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Post by terriblehondo on Nov 9, 2023 19:52:56 GMT -5
Yankee stadium would help Verdugo's power numbers.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 9, 2023 20:02:59 GMT -5
Yankee stadium would help Verdugo's power numbers. And Statcast says it would hurt Torres’ considerably FWIW.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 9, 2023 21:10:03 GMT -5
The Bronx bunters want to play more small ball! It’s a perfect trade!
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Post by notnickyorke on Nov 9, 2023 21:24:51 GMT -5
I would be cautious about throwing around FWAR figures for Left fielders who play in Fenway. OOA lacks an understanding of The Monster. Two seasons in left field at Fenway drag down Verdugo's projections. He went from having horrid defensive numbers in 21/22 to being a gold glove finalist in right. Benintendi won a gold glove in left the second he escaped.
Also, (in a more biased fan centric response) Fangraphs love projecting Yankee players for career years in a way that makes little sense to me. (Bader 23)
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Post by orion09 on Nov 9, 2023 22:46:49 GMT -5
Verdugo + prospects + money for Soto?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 9, 2023 22:48:07 GMT -5
I'd prefer Verdugo and dollars for someone like Jonathan India of the Reds. Trading Dugie to a team like the Yankees loses the additional value of the dollars that the Sox can absorb with no tax issues.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 9, 2023 22:50:33 GMT -5
I would be cautious about throwing around FWAR figures for Left fielders who play in Fenway. OOA lacks an understanding of The Monster. Two seasons in left field at Fenway drag down Verdugo's projections. He went from having horrid defensive numbers in 21/22 to being a gold glove finalist in right. Benintendi won a gold glove in left the second he escaped. Also, (in a more biased fan centric response) Fangraphs love projecting Yankee players for career years in a way that makes little sense to me. (Bader 23) Is Jay Jaffe making the projections? He's got a solid future ahead of him with the YES network if his day job goes pear-shaped, along with Buster Olney.
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Post by yuchangclan on Nov 10, 2023 0:35:29 GMT -5
I think I like the Clarke Schmidt trade better than Torres, but I’d do either one. The fact that just about everyone would trade Verdugo for Torres means it’s probably not going to happen that way, as well.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 10, 2023 1:10:56 GMT -5
One thing that I don't think is going to happen is Craig Breslow trading a major league player to the MFYs as one of his first acts as Red Sox Poobah, so I'm changing the subject to an equally unlikely but more entertaining one, IMO.
Let's say you trade Verdugo along with paying all of his remaining salary to CHW for two years of slugging, slick-fielding, right-handed Luis Robert Jr., III. How much in prospect capital do you have to give up for those 10-12 WAR?
Why would CHW do it? Well, their new GM is on record saying they have a shitty roster and ownership is going to tighten their belts. None of the bets the previous FO made have paid off (hi, Benni) and their graduating prospects have underwhelmed in the majors thus far. In other words, their window for competing for even the AL Central title will not be open again until well after Robert's sell-by date. Dugie would presumably be the least valuable piece the Southsiders would get back in a Robert trade but at least Dugie can fill a starting role in 2024 and could well bear fruit at the trade deadline. They could also flip him to a third team, like SF or HOU or another that has expressed interest, for more prospects.
So which #soxprospects head to Charlotte, Birmingham, or Winston-Salem to make this happen?
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Post by soxaddict on Nov 10, 2023 2:13:58 GMT -5
One thing that I don't think is going to happen is Craig Breslow trading a major league player to the MFYs as one of his first acts as Red Sox Poobah, so I'm changing the subject to an equally unlikely but more entertaining one, IMO. Let's say you trade Verdugo along with paying all of his remaining salary to CHW for two years of slugging, slick-fielding, right-handed Luis Robert Jr., III. How much in prospect capital do you have to give up for those 10-12 WAR? Why would CHW do it? Well, their new GM is on record saying they have a shitty roster and ownership is going to tighten their belts. None of the bets the previous FO made have paid off (hi, Benni) and their graduating prospects have underwhelmed in the majors thus far. In other words, their window for competing for even the AL Central title will not be open again until well after Robert's sell-by date. Dugie would presumably be the least valuable piece the Southsiders would get back in a Robert trade but at least Dugie can fill a starting role in 2024 and could well bear fruit at the trade deadline. They could also flip him to a third team, like SF or HOU or another that has expressed interest, for more prospects. So which #soxprospects head to Charlotte, Birmingham, or Winston-Salem to make this happen? Luis Robert Jr. of6 years/$50M (2020-25), plus 2026-27 club options signed extension with Chicago White Sox 1/2/20 20:$1.5M, 21:$3.5M, 22:$6M, 23:$9.5M, 24:$12.5M, 25:$15M, 26:$20M club option ($2M buyout). 27:$20M club option ($2M buyout) IMO, 4 years of Robert will cost about what the Friars paid for 3 years of Soto.
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Post by cheers on Nov 10, 2023 8:20:43 GMT -5
I'm a bit perplexed why folks are trying to ship Verdugo off for bats, when the glaring need is starting pitching. Verdugo and a good prospect(s) for a durable #4 is worth doing. I've been combing the arb2/3 eligible SP, and not really feeling it. I'll vote for "hold until we get into the season", or at least until the top-tier SP come off the board - see where the chips lie.
I guess I'd also consider a bat-first RHH 1B/LF. The 40-man currently doesn't have a guy to spell Casas.
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Post by chaimtime on Nov 10, 2023 10:15:30 GMT -5
I'm a bit perplexed why folks are trying to ship Verdugo off for bats, when the glaring need is starting pitching. Verdugo and a good prospect(s) for a durable #4 is worth doing. I've been combing the arb2/3 eligible SP, and not really feeling it. I'll vote for "hold until we get into the season", or at least until the top-tier SP come off the board - see where the chips lie. I guess I'd also consider a bat-first RHH 1B/LF. The 40-man currently doesn't have a guy to spell Casas. I don’t think they need another number-4 starter more than they need a second baseman. The rotation needs top-end pitching more than it needs depth. I think part of the attraction for Drury is that he can, in theory, play first, second, and third. He even played some outfield early in his career but wasn’t very good out there.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 10, 2023 11:15:43 GMT -5
I'm a bit perplexed why folks are trying to ship Verdugo off for bats, when the glaring need is starting pitching. Verdugo and a good prospect(s) for a durable #4 is worth doing. I've been combing the arb2/3 eligible SP, and not really feeling it. I'll vote for "hold until we get into the season", or at least until the top-tier SP come off the board - see where the chips lie. I guess I'd also consider a bat-first RHH 1B/LF. The 40-man currently doesn't have a guy to spell Casas. I don’t think they need another number-4 starter more than they need a second baseman. The rotation needs top-end pitching more than it needs depth. I think part of the attraction for Drury is that he can, in theory, play first, second, and third. He even played some outfield early in his career but wasn’t very good out there. I think the key is the phrase " durable #4," a guy who can pitch like Pivetta or Crawford in terms of run prevention, but give you six innings more often than not and not get hurt. A durable #4 is indeed not as important as a "top end starter", but if they get a top end starter FA and a durable #4 in trade, they'll be a lot better, and the bullpen should be excellent all year and not wear out.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 10, 2023 11:17:07 GMT -5
[...] I guess I'd also consider a bat-first RHH 1B/LF. The 40-man currently doesn't have a guy to spell Casas. You want to trade your starting RF for a backup 1B/LF?
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