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Alex Verdugo Trade Speculation
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 10, 2023 11:33:00 GMT -5
I don’t think they need another number-4 starter more than they need a second baseman. The rotation needs top-end pitching more than it needs depth. I think part of the attraction for Drury is that he can, in theory, play first, second, and third. He even played some outfield early in his career but wasn’t very good out there. I think the key is the phrase " durable #4," a guy who can pitch like Pivetta or Crawford in terms of run prevention, but give you six innings more often than not and not get hurt. A durable #4 is indeed not as important as a "top end starter", but if they get a top end starter FA and a durable #4 in trade, they'll be a lot better, and the bullpen should be excellent all year and not wear out. In today's MLB someone that can give you a solid 6 innings more often than not by definition is more than a #4 starter though, at least in my opinion anyway. Then add the durable label to it, I'd be surprised if Verdugo plus a decent prospect could net someone that fits that definition and is controllable.
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Post by chaimtime on Nov 10, 2023 12:16:35 GMT -5
I think the key is the phrase " durable #4," a guy who can pitch like Pivetta or Crawford in terms of run prevention, but give you six innings more often than not and not get hurt. A durable #4 is indeed not as important as a "top end starter", but if they get a top end starter FA and a durable #4 in trade, they'll be a lot better, and the bullpen should be excellent all year and not wear out. In today's MLB someone that can give you a solid 6 innings more often than not by definition is more than a #4 starter though, at least in my opinion anyway. Then add the durable label to it, I'd be surprised if Verdugo plus a decent prospect could net someone that fits that definition and is controllable. Yeah, this is the big thing right here. There isn’t really anybody on the market who I can think of who would be a better fit in that role than Nick Pivetta, who was sneakily one of the best pitchers in baseball by a number of underlying metrics. I’ve spent a lot of time trawling the Baseball Prospectus leaderboards these past few weeks trying to find guys with interesting profiles that suggest a breakout could be possible. I’ve come away convinced that any investment in the rotation should be concentrated on a top-of-the-rotation starter, since there are very few people on the market who are more interesting than Pivetta. If you want a pitcher who can give you 175 or so Pivettaesque innings, you’re looking at something along the lines of a Dylan Cease or Mitch Keller trade. That’s gonna take more than Verdugo and a prospect to pull off. And Kutter Crawford had the sixth-lowest xERA of all pitchers who threw at least 120 innings last year. If those two guys are your 4/5 starters, the back end of your rotation is one of the best in the league and has a lot of upside!
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Post by cheers on Nov 10, 2023 13:34:17 GMT -5
[...] I guess I'd also consider a bat-first RHH 1B/LF. The 40-man currently doesn't have a guy to spell Casas. You want to trade your starting RF for a backup 1B/LF? Not really. I was thinking someone who had enough bat to justify in the lineup for 120 games in some combo of 1B/LF/DH. I guess the point I was (poorly) making was that a legit RHH bench bat is arguably a greater need than 2B.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 10, 2023 14:28:27 GMT -5
In today's MLB someone that can give you a solid 6 innings more often than not by definition is more than a #4 starter though, at least in my opinion anyway. Then add the durable label to it, I'd be surprised if Verdugo plus a decent prospect could net someone that fits that definition and is controllable. Yeah, this is the big thing right here. There isn’t really anybody on the market who I can think of who would be a better fit in that role than Nick Pivetta, who was sneakily one of the best pitchers in baseball by a number of underlying metrics. I’ve spent a lot of time trawling the Baseball Prospectus leaderboards these past few weeks trying to find guys with interesting profiles that suggest a breakout could be possible. I’ve come away convinced that any investment in the rotation should be concentrated on a top-of-the-rotation starter, since there are very few people on the market who are more interesting than Pivetta. If you want a pitcher who can give you 175 or so Pivettaesque innings, you’re looking at something along the lines of a Dylan Cease or Mitch Keller trade. That’s gonna take more than Verdugo and a prospect to pull off. And Kutter Crawford had the sixth-lowest xERA of all pitchers who threw at least 120 innings last year. If those two guys are your 4/5 starters, the back end of your rotation is one of the best in the league and has a lot of upside! I really haven't understood the desire to replace Pivetta/Crawford in the rotation with someone just like Pivetta/Crawford. Depth is good, but putting one of those guys in the bullpen (which should already have Whitlock, Houck and Winckowski) doesn't seem to help the team much. More depth in AAA is needed, but that's a 40-man w/options type of guy (who would be better in 2024 than Drohan & Walter). That said, unless the Red Sox are going after Nola as a 2nd rotation upgrade, I think Kyle Gibson is the guy these folks want. Consistent ~6 inning guy with peripherals similar to Crawford/Pivetta. He's 36, but if the Red Sox have extra money, it wouldn't be the worst bet - his consistency over the last 6 years is hard to match.
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Post by chaimtime on Nov 10, 2023 14:53:24 GMT -5
You want to trade your starting RF for a backup 1B/LF? Not really. I was thinking someone who had enough bat to justify in the lineup for 120 games in some combo of 1B/LF/DH. I guess the point I was (poorly) making was that a legit RHH bench bat is arguably a greater need than 2B. What about a legit RHH second base bat, though? That’s the reasoning behind targeting a Torres or Drury—someone who can be an above-average bat for the position—with much-needed righty pop—while providing better defense than the Sox have had there in recent years.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 10, 2023 15:03:53 GMT -5
One thing that I don't think is going to happen is Craig Breslow trading a major league player to the MFYs as one of his first acts as Red Sox Poobah, so I'm changing the subject to an equally unlikely but more entertaining one, IMO. Let's say you trade Verdugo along with paying all of his remaining salary to CHW for two years of slugging, slick-fielding, right-handed Luis Robert Jr., III. How much in prospect capital do you have to give up for those 10-12 WAR? Why would CHW do it? Well, their new GM is on record saying they have a shitty roster and ownership is going to tighten their belts. None of the bets the previous FO made have paid off (hi, Benni) and their graduating prospects have underwhelmed in the majors thus far. In other words, their window for competing for even the AL Central title will not be open again until well after Robert's sell-by date. Dugie would presumably be the least valuable piece the Southsiders would get back in a Robert trade but at least Dugie can fill a starting role in 2024 and could well bear fruit at the trade deadline. They could also flip him to a third team, like SF or HOU or another that has expressed interest, for more prospects. So which #soxprospects head to Charlotte, Birmingham, or Winston-Salem to make this happen? Luis Robert Jr. of6 years/$50M (2020-25), plus 2026-27 club options signed extension with Chicago White Sox 1/2/20 20:$1.5M, 21:$3.5M, 22:$6M, 23:$9.5M, 24:$12.5M, 25:$15M, 26:$20M club option ($2M buyout). 27:$20M club option ($2M buyout) IMO, 4 years of Robert will cost about what the Friars paid for 3 years of Soto. I missed the club options, just saw his free agent eligibility listed as 2026 on b-ref. Certainly changes the calculation and makes it more likely that CHW would want to keep him and build around him.
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Post by cheers on Nov 10, 2023 15:44:47 GMT -5
Not really. I was thinking someone who had enough bat to justify in the lineup for 120 games in some combo of 1B/LF/DH. I guess the point I was (poorly) making was that a legit RHH bench bat is arguably a greater need than 2B. What about a legit RHH second base bat, though? That’s the reasoning behind targeting a Torres or Drury—someone who can be an above-average bat for the position—with much-needed righty pop—while providing better defense than the Sox have had there in recent years. I hadn't given either a close enough look, to be honest. Now that I have, I'd be happy with either Torres or Drury - but I'd still rather have a #4 SP. Sox would have to chuck in a sweetener to make either of those deals go, I think.
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 10, 2023 17:56:11 GMT -5
What about a legit RHH second base bat, though? That’s the reasoning behind targeting a Torres or Drury—someone who can be an above-average bat for the position—with much-needed righty pop—while providing better defense than the Sox have had there in recent years. I hadn't given either a close enough look, to be honest. Now that I have, I'd be happy with either Torres or Drury - but I'd still rather have a #4 SP. Sox would have to chuck in a sweetener to make either of those deals go, I think. The Sox already have two #4 pitchers - Pivetta and Crawford. One might a #3 (Eric would probably argue both are #2's). Sign a FA #1-2 type and IF they're going to trade Verdugo, I'd rather have RH 2B upgrade. I just don't see them getting anyone better than Pivetta/Crawford.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 10, 2023 23:35:15 GMT -5
Unless Verdugo is a minor piece in a big trade, I don't think it's realistic to expect a return from him that's going to net a significant contributor to the 2024 club. I think it makes more sense to decouple those two ideas and focus on what he can bring back from whatever team has a hankering for him, like maybe an upper-minors pitching prospect. Deal with the 2B or rotation needs separately.
P.S. Looking at Torres's Baseball Savant page does not make me want to trade for him. Much of his value comes from homers that were MFY Stadium RF short-porch specials, bumping up his SLG and offsetting horrible defensive and baserunning metrics. I get that Dugie-for-Torres is a sexy early off-season talker for Boston and NY media, but no thank you.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Nov 11, 2023 6:56:46 GMT -5
I went to a couple of Yankees/Sox games this past year. Anecdotally, and at the risk of sounding like an anti-stats meathead, the ball sounded different coming off of Torres’ bat. He has some serious thump, as the scouts Billy Beane made fun of used to say. Granted, that lineup was sans Stanton/Judge/Rizzo (iirc), but Torres was the only guy I didn’t want to see at the plate when the game was close. He hit a couple of deep drives. I’d be happy to have him on my team, without having taken a deep dive into the analytics.
Drury is still my preference for 2B, and I can’t imagine the Angels want Verdugo. Also, a lot of us are thinking a Verdugo trade would be a 1-for-1 swap (or close, with a prospect included on either side depending on the trade), but I think a 3-way trade may be more likely to accommodate all interested parties.
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Post by carl4sox on Nov 12, 2023 16:56:21 GMT -5
I like Duggie, a lot. I don't know why he always gets a bad rap. Yes, we've heard that Cora sat him for not running out a ground ball. Hardly the only player. I don't know why AC has such a hair across his ass about him. He (Dugs) always seemed to hustle when I saw him which was a lot.
If he's going to be traded, please not to the MFY. That short RF fence is custom-made for his bat. Trade him, if you must, to a team that is fun. Maybe the Phils.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Nov 12, 2023 17:17:19 GMT -5
I like Duggie, a lot. I don't know why he always gets a bad rap. Yes, we've heard that Cora sat him for not running out a ground ball. Hardly the only player. I don't know why AC has such a hair across his ass about him. He (Dugs) always seemed to hustle when I saw him which was a lot. If he's going to be traded, please not to the MFY. That short RF fence is custom-made for his bat. Trade him, if you must, to a team that is fun. Maybe the Phils. I am in the same camp as you regarding Verdugo. I want him to stay and be extended. If he is traded, I hope it is not a dump for prospects. After the trade I am looking for the ML roster to be better because of the deal. That will be one of my 1st measures of how good Breslow is.
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Post by pappyman99 on Nov 12, 2023 17:55:41 GMT -5
Didn’t know such a streaky, borderline underperforming player with attitudes problems was all the sudden such a cherished item among Sox fans
He has known clubhouse issues, not just something with AC, and he Bloom we’re also seen having a not so great convo
He is soon to be FA why not trade him for assets if the deal makes sense?
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Nov 12, 2023 18:19:19 GMT -5
Didn’t know such a streaky, borderline underperforming player with attitudes problems was all the sudden such a cherished item among Sox fans He has known clubhouse issues, not just something with AC, and he Bloom we’re also seen having a not so great convo He is soon to be FA why not trade him for assets if the deal makes sense? I've been consistently in his court all season. No need for further debate about his pros and cons on this thread. I simply want to see the 2024 roster improved by the trade return if in fact he is traded.
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Post by patford on Nov 12, 2023 18:26:09 GMT -5
I can't wrap my head around the people who think Verdugo has the least value also think Verdugo has the most value.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 12, 2023 20:28:57 GMT -5
I like Duggie, a lot. I don't know why he always gets a bad rap. Yes, we've heard that Cora sat him for not running out a ground ball. Hardly the only player. I don't know why AC has such a hair across his ass about him. He (Dugs) always seemed to hustle when I saw him which was a lot. If he's going to be traded, please not to the MFY. That short RF fence is custom-made for his bat. Trade him, if you must, to a team that is fun. Maybe the Phils. I am in the same camp as you regarding Verdugo. I want him to stay and be extended. If he is traded, I hope it is not a dump for prospects. After the trade I am looking for the ML roster to be better because of the deal. That will be one of my 1st measures of how good Breslow is. What if he trades Verdugo for a promising prospect and then uses the $9m allotted to Verdugo to help pay for pitching? If you insist that a Verdugo return directly help the 2024 club, I think you're limiting your options.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 12, 2023 21:21:05 GMT -5
Some context for thinking about a Verdugo trade: here are a couple of Steamer projections for 2024...
Verdugo: 578 PAs, 106 wRC+, -5.7 Def, 1.7 WAR Abreu: 468 PAs, 105 wRC+, -4.9 Def, 1.2 WAR
Make of those projections what you will. My take is that the defensive rating is dinging Verdugo for his adventures in LF and CF in 2021/22, but we know he's a good right fielder (demonstrated in both 2020 and 2023) and I think this underestimates his defensive value. (He was +3.5 in 2023.) I also think this is somewhat, but not crazily, optimistic on Abreu's bat.
Simply replacing Verdugo with Abreu I would see as about a 1 win downgrade. In theory the savings from not paying $9 million for Verdugo would just about make up for that - e.g. you could invest it in pitching, as Mr. Johnson suggests - so whatever trade return you got for Verdugo would be a pure bonus.
But that's just in theory. In practice, if we assume they sign Duvall, say (but it could just as well be Teoscar or Gurriel), then they would have an outfield group of Duvall/Duran/Abreu/Refsnyder/Rafaela. And just one injury makes that an *awfully* thin group. There's also a significant risk of underperformance with every one of those guys.
So I can just not game out a situation in which trading Verdugo doesn't open up a hole on the roster that would end up devilishly hard to fill - and bedevilling them, most likely, throughout the season.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Nov 12, 2023 22:36:32 GMT -5
I am in the same camp as you regarding Verdugo. I want him to stay and be extended. If he is traded, I hope it is not a dump for prospects. After the trade I am looking for the ML roster to be better because of the deal. That will be one of my 1st measures of how good Breslow is. What if he trades Verdugo for a promising prospect and then uses the $9m allotted to Verdugo to help pay for pitching? If you insist that a Verdugo return directly help the 2024 club, I think you're limiting your options. Breaking this down in to pieces, I love the idea of obtaining promising prospects and of course Verdugo's potential replacement, Abreu, was acquired in such a deal. In terms of the salary, in this off season, the Sox should be pretty close to having no spending limit as they can get being the 1st off season after getting under the cap. I could get on board with moving salary to make room for pitching ( or position player) improvement costs after that move was already made and it was clear some corresponding salary reduction needed to take place. So yeah, looking at the big picture of several moves made in concert that resulted in an improved roster for 2024, I could get behind trading Verdugo for a promising prospect. I fully understand the landscape and expect him to be traded. I'll still likely be pissed though !!!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 13, 2023 0:07:00 GMT -5
I will be thrilled if we've seen the last of him. Too much drama, too much uncertainty. We need true change on this team, not just rearrangement of deck chairs.
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Post by dcb26 on Nov 13, 2023 8:54:24 GMT -5
Not looking to move Verdugo just to dump him, but: 1) I think it would be best for both he and Cora, given how things played out last year, and 2) There is redundancy in the OF relative to some other spots on the roster, and Verdugo seems like the best option to trade So I can just not game out a situation in which trading Verdugo doesn't open up a hole on the roster that would end up devilishly hard to fill - and bedevilling them, most likely, throughout the season.
I don't mean for this to come across as overly critical but for this to play out as you fear: Verdugo would need to be better than projections And Abreu would need to be worse than projections And three of Duvall/Duran/Refsnyder/Rafaela/Abreu would need to be hurt or underperforming And Yoshida would need to be truly unable to play LF And there would need to be no other cheap, serviceable OF depth available internally/otherwise It's not that this is an impossible scenario, (and they would need to re-sign Duvall, which I think is critical) but unlikely enough that I don't think keeping the status quo is the best way to allocate resources. I would also like to see Abreu and Rafaela each get a real chance - normally I'd say they could work on things in AAA, but I'm worried about them developing bad habits in that stadium and feel like based on last year they can continue to be eased into the big leagues
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Post by incandenza on Nov 13, 2023 11:19:15 GMT -5
Not looking to move Verdugo just to dump him, but: 1) I think it would be best for both he and Cora, given how things played out last year, and 2) There is redundancy in the OF relative to some other spots on the roster, and Verdugo seems like the best option to trade So I can just not game out a situation in which trading Verdugo doesn't open up a hole on the roster that would end up devilishly hard to fill - and bedevilling them, most likely, throughout the season.
I don't mean for this to come across as overly critical but for this to play out as you fear: Verdugo would need to be better than projections And Abreu would need to be worse than projections And three of Duvall/Duran/Refsnyder/Rafaela/Abreu would need to be hurt or underperforming And Yoshida would need to be truly unable to play LF And there would need to be no other cheap, serviceable OF depth available internally/otherwise It's not that this is an impossible scenario, (and they would need to re-sign Duvall, which I think is critical) but unlikely enough that I don't think keeping the status quo is the best way to allocate resources. I would also like to see Abreu and Rafaela each get a real chance - normally I'd say they could work on things in AAA, but I'm worried about them developing bad habits in that stadium and feel like based on last year they can continue to be eased into the big leagues Well, I talked about the Verdugo/Abreu comparison. I'm also assuming Yoshida is mainly a DH. In any case, either he is a DH or else subtracting Verdugo means the outfield defense is likely to be worse than it was last season, on a team that can't really afford to get worse defensively.
But the simplest way to make the point is probably just to observe that Verdugo has the highest Steamer projection of any of the team's outfielders, so just on the face of it trading him away should be expected to make the team worse.
I'll grant these aren't huge margins we're talking about - maybe a win, like I said. But by the same token Verdugo is not going to fetch a big haul, and why not wait to get into the season to see whether they need him or not? If Abreu and Duran both look like better options then they have until the trade deadline to move Verdugo.
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 13, 2023 12:34:55 GMT -5
Minimum they should trade him away for is a 2nd round pick worth of value (because you'd expect to QO him) plus like $10M surplus value which is like a prospect a little better than Wilkelman Gonzalez. Essentially can they get two 45+ prospects for Verdugo?
And if so, do they have acceptable enough replacement options in the outfield? Add: I think I would try to add the replacement guy first. See if you can get Kiermaier or whoever on a deal you like. If so and you've created excess then move him.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 13, 2023 12:40:39 GMT -5
Not looking to move Verdugo just to dump him, but: 1) I think it would be best for both he and Cora, given how things played out last year, and 2) There is redundancy in the OF relative to some other spots on the roster, and Verdugo seems like the best option to trade I don't mean for this to come across as overly critical but for this to play out as you fear: Verdugo would need to be better than projections And Abreu would need to be worse than projections And three of Duvall/Duran/Refsnyder/Rafaela/Abreu would need to be hurt or underperforming And Yoshida would need to be truly unable to play LF And there would need to be no other cheap, serviceable OF depth available internally/otherwise It's not that this is an impossible scenario, (and they would need to re-sign Duvall, which I think is critical) but unlikely enough that I don't think keeping the status quo is the best way to allocate resources. I would also like to see Abreu and Rafaela each get a real chance - normally I'd say they could work on things in AAA, but I'm worried about them developing bad habits in that stadium and feel like based on last year they can continue to be eased into the big leagues Well, I talked about the Verdugo/Abreu comparison. I'm also assuming Yoshida is mainly a DH. In any case, either he is a DH or else subtracting Verdugo means the outfield defense is likely to be worse than it was last season, on a team that can't really afford to get worse defensively.
But the simplest way to make the point is probably just to observe that Verdugo has the highest Steamer projection of any of the team's outfielders, so just on the face of it trading him away should be expected to make the team worse. I'll grant these aren't huge margins we're talking about - maybe a win, like I said. But by the same token Verdugo is not going to fetch a big haul, and why not wait to get into the season to see whether they need him or not? If Abreu and Duran both look like better options then they have until the trade deadline to move Verdugo.
You're projecting Yoshida as the DH when there's currently no sign that he will be the DH. Cora has explicitly said that he sees him as a LFer and not a DH. As you point out, the projections for Verdugo are unfairly dinging him for his -4 OAA in LF for 2022, but you ignore this issue when addressing Yoshida's -8 OAA in LF for 2023. Nobody is saying that Yoshida is as good, or better, than Verdugo - but at the cost of ~4 outs per year, having him in LF isn't going to crater the defense. Additionally, having 6 OFers on the roster (as you have listed above) would leave Cora very little flexibility, which is the opposite of what has been discussed in the past year regarding the DH position (it's doubtful that was all Bloom). If you look at the OF as Yoshida (LHH), Duran (LHH), Refsnyder (RHH), Abreu (LHH) and Duvall (RHH) then there's a well-balanced OF without a place for Verdugo. Verdugo is likely a slight (possibly more) upgrade over Abreu, but a resigning of Duvall likely leaves him as the starting RFer, more often than not. You can move Yoshida to DH, Duran to LF and place Duvall in CF, but Duvall wasn't very good in CF last season (-4 OAA in opnly 478 innings) and Duran had the 2nd best jump-time of any outfielder in baseball last season, so that doesn't seem like it would be the best the long-term plan. If the Red Sox don't find a player to fill the DH role (at least part time) then your initial assumption (that Yoshida is the DH) will make more sense, but for now, you're basing your conclusions on an assumption which is contrary to the information we've been provided. (As I've previously mentioned, it is quite strange that Yoshida's arm was so awful last season despite showing average arm strength - this seems like something which can be improved upon with practice in LF)
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Post by incandenza on Nov 13, 2023 12:55:08 GMT -5
Well, I talked about the Verdugo/Abreu comparison. I'm also assuming Yoshida is mainly a DH. In any case, either he is a DH or else subtracting Verdugo means the outfield defense is likely to be worse than it was last season, on a team that can't really afford to get worse defensively.
But the simplest way to make the point is probably just to observe that Verdugo has the highest Steamer projection of any of the team's outfielders, so just on the face of it trading him away should be expected to make the team worse. I'll grant these aren't huge margins we're talking about - maybe a win, like I said. But by the same token Verdugo is not going to fetch a big haul, and why not wait to get into the season to see whether they need him or not? If Abreu and Duran both look like better options then they have until the trade deadline to move Verdugo.
You're projecting Yoshida as the DH when there's currently no sign that he will be the DH. Cora has explicitly said that he sees him as a LFer and not a DH. As you point out, the projections for Verdugo are unfairly dinging him for his -4 OAA in LF for 2022, but you ignore this issue when addressing Yoshida's -8 OAA in LF for 2023. Nobody is saying that Yoshida is as good, or better, than Verdugo - but at the cost of ~4 outs per year, having him in LF isn't going to crater the defense. Additionally, having 6 OFers on the roster (as you have listed above) would leave Cora very little flexibility, which is the opposite of what has been discussed in the past year regarding the DH position (it's doubtful that was all Bloom). If you look at the OF as Yoshida (LHH), Duran (LHH), Refsnyder (RHH), Abreu (LHH) and Duvall (RHH) then there's a well-balanced OF without a place for Verdugo. Verdugo is likely a slight (possibly more) upgrade over Abreu, but a resigning of Duvall likely leaves him as the starting RFer, more often than not. You can move Yoshida to DH, Duran to LF and place Duvall in CF, but Duvall wasn't very good in CF last season (-4 OAA in opnly 478 innings) and Duran had the 2nd best jump-time of any outfielder in baseball last season, so that doesn't seem like it would be the best the long-term plan. If the Red Sox don't find a player to fill the DH role (at least part time) then your initial assumption (that Yoshida is the DH) will make more sense, but for now, you're basing your conclusions on an assumption which is contrary to the information we've been provided. (As I've previously mentioned, it is quite strange that Yoshida's arm was so awful last season despite showing average arm strength - this seems like something which can be improved upon with practice in LF) But I addressed the Yoshida issue when I said "either he is a DH or else subtracting Verdugo means the outfield defense is likely to be worse than it was last season, on a team that can't really afford to get worse defensively." If the plan is to keep Yoshida in LF, that's fine, but then it's that much more important that they keep their best defensive outfielder from last season. I disagree that Yoshida/Duran/Duvall/Abreu/Refsnyder is good enough to rely on, especially on defense.
If you count Yoshida as an OF and re-sign Duvall (or the equivalent), then yes, that's six outfielders between those two and Verdugo/Abreu/Refsnyder/Rafaela, but I'm expecting Rafaela to start the year in Worcester, Abreu also hass options, and they need depth in the case of injuries anyway.
I do see the logic of what you and others are saying. I think the judgment just turns on how much we can count on Abreu and Rafaela next season. I'm not ready to trust them with major roles just yet. In fact I think it would be mighty convenient to keep Verdugo around for one more season as we get a longer look at both of them; and if they prove themselves soon enough then Verdugo can be traded at the deadline.
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 13, 2023 13:06:38 GMT -5
The problem with Duran and Yoshida is that both are among the worst at their position. Maybe you can live with one or the other, but collectively it makes it so you have by far the worst defensive left/center combination in baseball. Specifically Duran in center is really unpalatable.
And moving Verdugo doesn’t help at all with that unless they’ll play Duran in right but they didn’t even try him there this year. From this perspective the redundancy of the three is less important because they already have to move one of the other two out of the outfield or off the team.
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