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Post by ephus on Jan 24, 2024 22:45:38 GMT -5
"Most feared hitter in baseball" Manny?
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Post by keninten on Jan 24, 2024 23:02:01 GMT -5
Which teams cap will he wear? It really should be V-Mart`s hand.
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Post by jawnvalentin on Jan 25, 2024 9:24:07 GMT -5
I couldn't believe how good Beltre was during his season in Boston. One of those rare players who was better in his 30s than he was in his 20s.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 25, 2024 23:54:14 GMT -5
WAR is a volume state and a silly way to compare relievers and you know that. I might as well use the rate stats where even middling relievers blow starters out of the water. A better stat is WPA. Wagner has a better WPA than Santana. Whether he is a HOFer? Meh. I don’t care that much. But WPA better measures their impact on the game. What's wrong with counting stats to evaluate someone for HOF inclusion? That's the point. Can someone have enough impact in 903 career innings to be a hall of famer? It's like evaluating a great hitter who was a DH or a defensive liability - you balance their overall impact. A short-outing reliever can certainly be a Hall-of-Famer. But I think you have to balance the impact of an 80-inning RP when starters at the time are throwing 180 innings. I'm not even really advocating for or against Wagner, just the idea that relievers go into their own box. I don't think you can really do that. The thing is that I’m not even advocating for Wagner to be in the hall of fame. But “made a big enough impact” is an amorphous concept that really hard to quantify. Even the old time sport writers looked to numbers to judge the qualifications of players (for the most part, there are players who went in for other reasons). Just because a player threw 180 lately low leverage innings did not mean he had a greater impact on team success than someone who pitched 75. I have never seen you (or anyone else for that matter) complain that someone like Josh Hader made the all star team while Jordan Montgomery did not. If a starter with 30 innings was named to the all star game of everyone would be in an uproar. The way relievers impact the game is different. The innings they pitch are higher leverage and if you get into stats like WPA you can see that. Accordingly pithy surface level analysis like saying Santana had more innings so he is more deserving misses that part of the analysis. Starters are judged by and large on how they performed x number of innings. That’s reflected in a stat like WAR. They’re asked to go every five days and get as many outs as possible while giving the least number of runs. I can compare them by saying starting pitcher X pitched more innings and was more effective at retiring batters than starting pitcher y. Starting pitcher x was the better pitcher this year. What about pitcher Z who pitched 1/3 as often as X, had less total strikeouts than X, but often faced the best hitters and was better at getting out those better hitters than X. Well that’s tougher because just innings and out don’t tell the whole story about what Z was asked to do and how Z affected the game. Comparing DHs to closers is a terrible comparison since DHs do not come up in high leverage situations, and accordingly their leverage is not different than other position players. Pinch hitters are also a bad comparison, since impact of a single at bat during a game is less than a single inning (1/27 vs 1/9). If a pinch hitter could bat three times in a row in a close and late game, then I’m sure managers would hold back a very good hitter for the ninth inning of close games.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 26, 2024 8:39:20 GMT -5
I have never seen you (or anyone else for that matter) complain that someone like Josh Hader made the all star team while Jordan Montgomery did not. If a starter with 30 innings was named to the all star game of everyone would be in an uproar. I complain about this every year! I am very annoying about it, in fact!
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Post by keninten on Jan 26, 2024 16:31:24 GMT -5
This conversation about pitchers is tough. Todays SPers can`t put up many stats that their predecessors did. 300 innings, 20 wins a season, career wins at 300, shutouts or complete games etc. So standards have to change with the times. This also plays into the closers going into the HOF.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jan 26, 2024 22:38:59 GMT -5
Dwight Evans should be in the HOF.
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