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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 6, 2023 8:16:41 GMT -5
Over the last two seasons he would have had 56% more home runs if he played all his games at Yankee stadium. Angry Verdugo in a stadium that fits him well on a walk year does seem like a recipe for a big season. Still fine with the return and all, but I think the Yankees will get 3+ WAR from him despite whatever the projections say. All his games in MFY stadium? What about just the home games? If it’s 28% more, that’s still less than 20 in a year. 56% more still doesn’t get him to 20 most years. He simply didn’t come close to his potential. Just his home games is not an available statistic but I’m sure the Yankees know what the number is. Whether or not he hits 20 home runs he’s still an above average hitter and the Yankees didn’t really need a home run guy anyways.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 6, 2023 8:18:15 GMT -5
On Fitts: "His fastball is his best pitch and his confidence is just as fiery. “I want to be an All-Star. I want to be a Hall of Famer,” Fitts told NJ Advance Media this summer. “Realistically, I really want to be the most consistent guy that I can be. I think that’s something that is really valued in today’s game of baseball, being a consistent starter where you can go out there and you know what you’re gonna get. If you can do that, you’re gonna be an All-Star, you’re gonna play for 15 years and then hopefully, the Hall of Fame comes after that too.”" www.nj.com/yankees/2023/12/what-yankees-gave-red-sox-in-alex-verdugo-trade-will-they-regret-it.html
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 6, 2023 8:22:15 GMT -5
Not optimal because of the head to head games we play against the MFY. However, not too upset.
A tip of the cap to him on the way out the door. Yeah, always expected more, but there were some really great moments.
I will let you guys explain the return.
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 6, 2023 8:22:34 GMT -5
Not sure why we really care what Verdugo does with the Yankees
I think we are beyond that now considering our success the last 20 years and that there were 3 other teams ahead of them in 2023 in the east
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 6, 2023 8:28:34 GMT -5
They've had wife beaters, cheats, and straight up assholes. Sounds like a you problem more than a Verdugo problem Well there was the Nick Francona thing...that didn't exactly paint Dugie in the best light. If you compare him to somebody like Carl Everett he is Mother Theresa, I think that’s the general point being made there as an aside I really forgot how much of a POS Everett was
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 6, 2023 8:31:43 GMT -5
If it doesn't Fitts, Breslow won't well aquit.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 6, 2023 8:34:02 GMT -5
Initial thoughts while driving a U-Haul full of my mom’s furniture from Reno to Maine with my brother:
1. He’s gonna need to buy a razor.
2. If Cashman flips him in a Soto deal, it just means Breslow didn’t like Preller’s asking price. Recall that you’re bidding on one year of Soto, then you’d have maybe a 1-in-4 shot at signing him to something like 15y/$500m. I’d be more into it if I thought we were one Juan Soto away from being a top-5 team in MLB in 2024 but I also know I’d hate the price.
3. The return looks solid for the one surplus WAR that Doogie represents. Indeed, young Judice thrown in makes it feel like Cashman really wanted to get this done because Preller asked him to add Doogie to his offer.
4. I was on Team trade Doogie all along but don’t harbor any ill will… unless he stays in the Bronx. Then I hope he gets pull happy and his K-rate balloons when he’s not rolling over to 2B. I think he’ll be happy back in SoCal, though.
5. Not sure if they try to add an impact OF bat or just start the season with the kids. I still think signing Mike Taylor makes sense either way. Still wouldn’t touch Duvall with a 10’ Fitts.
6. I wonder if Fitts’s mates call him Fittsy. They sure would if he played hockey…
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2023 8:36:17 GMT -5
Not sure why we really care what Verdugo does with the YankeesI think we are beyond that now considering our success the last 20 years and that there were 3 other teams ahead of them in 2023 in the east This is where I've landed on it, I don't really care if Verdugo goes there and puts up his normal 2 WAR. They can have that for a season, won't really bother me. Which I guess kind of illustrates how down the Sox Yanks rivalry is these days. 20 years ago if the Red Sox traded the equivalent of Verdugo to the Yankees for this type of return I'd probably have been up in arms saying why the heck didn't you just send Verdugo anywhere but NYY for a bag of balls and don't help the enemy!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 6, 2023 8:38:56 GMT -5
Not sure why we really care what Verdugo does with the Yankees I think we are beyond that now considering our success the last 20 years and that there were 3 other teams ahead of them in 2023 in the east come on brother. MFY hatred is in our blood. If he hits a game winner against us, God forbid, it is gonna sting like a colony of wasps.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 6, 2023 8:39:39 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 6, 2023 8:44:08 GMT -5
Not sure why we really care what Verdugo does with the YankeesI think we are beyond that now considering our success the last 20 years and that there were 3 other teams ahead of them in 2023 in the east This is where I've landed on it, I don't really care if Verdugo goes there and puts up his normal 2 WAR. They can have that for a season, won't really bother me. Which I guess kind of illustrates how down the Sox Yanks rivalry is these days. 20 years ago if the Red Sox traded the equivalent of Verdugo to the Yankees for this type of return I'd probably have been up in arms saying why the heck didn't you just send Verdugo anywhere but NYY for a bag of balls and don't help the enemy! I care a lot. I want the MFYs and their pompous media and fans to go 0-162 every year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2023 8:45:12 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? Yes I think so. They dont want to play meaningless late season games in an empty stadium any more than Red Sox ownership does. If Toronto pulls off the Ohtani upset then the Yankees have a clear path to Soto. Theyve made their intentions clear. They want two lefty outfielders. Theyll either trade for Soto or sign Bellinger. They also intend on being big players for Yamamoto. The Yanks dont spend with the frequency they used to but after down seasons on 2008 and 2013 the Yankees splurged and I anticipate them doing the same after a down 2023 season.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2023 8:47:31 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? If Verdugo was a significant part of a package that could have gotten Soto, then the Red Sox would have traded for Soto, right? Can’t really worry about that because Verdugo’s value isn’t that high. And isn’t it rumored that the Padres wanted prospects and young controllable talent from NY? Verdugo is not that. If he’s just a throw in to give the Padres a starting COF, then it would be a bit annoying, but the Yankees could have found that for SD one way or another. I think Fitts is a good yang to Gonzales and Perales’ ying. 2 stuff guys, one command guy.
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Post by carl4sox on Dec 6, 2023 8:53:13 GMT -5
This trade depresses me. It reeks of Cora's dislike of Duggie, for whatever reasons. So of course the unnamed sources are coming out now, saying what a troublemaker he (Duggie) is. Same source that tarnished Tito, DD when they were fired?
Who is it?
Good luck, Duggie. Even with the MFY.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Dec 6, 2023 9:05:41 GMT -5
Verdugo’s troubles have been documented as an ongoing thing, dating as far back as the end if 2022, if not prior. Nobody in the organization has said anything negative about him since the trade.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2023 9:07:17 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? Yes I think so. They dont want to play meaningless late season games in an empty stadium any more than Red Sox ownership does. If Toronto pulls off the Ohtani upset then the Yankees have a clear path to Soto. Theyve made their intentions clear. They want two lefty outfielders. Theyll either trade for Soto or sign Bellinger. They also intend on being big players for Yamamoto.The Yanks dont spend with the frequency they used to but after down seasons on 2008 and 2013 the Yankees splurged and I anticipate them doing the same after a down 2023 season. A) while Bellinger probably makes more sense than Soto in a sense with his ability to play an above average CF I'd honestly be pretty happy to see them grab Bellinger. While I think he's certainly a better player than he was 2 and 3 years ago when he was barely playable due to his bat disappearing completely I don't think he's the player he was last year either. I think whatever team gives him a big deal is going to regret it sooner than later. B) In regards to Soto & Yamamoto, the Yankees payroll is at 250M after the Verdugo move. Sure they could easily flip Verdugo let's assume they don't. Soto is making 30Mish and Yamamoto is going to get 25M+ AAV. I'll eat my hat if the Yankees go ahead and add $50M+ AAV in long term commitments this offseason. Sure there's a non-zero chance that they land both Soto and Yamamoto in fact it sounds they're the favorites for Soto, but I really don't think they end up that much of a player on Yamamoto in the end. Hal Steinbrenner has not showed the inclination to be like his pops and just out spend everyone.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Dec 6, 2023 9:09:36 GMT -5
I believe the Yankees control Verdugo’s qualifying offer if he has a good year, no?
Obviously we don’t want our top competitor to be successful. Not only that but rooting against the Yankees is a lot of fun : )
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badfishnbc
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Post by badfishnbc on Dec 6, 2023 9:15:00 GMT -5
Dude looks like Rick Cerone.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2023 9:16:31 GMT -5
Well there was the Nick Francona thing...that didn't exactly paint Dugie in the best light. If you compare him to somebody like Carl Everett he is Mother Theresa, I think that’s the general point being made there as an aside I really forgot how much of a POS Everett was Jurassic Carl was an interesting person...
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2023 9:16:49 GMT -5
Dude looks like Rick Cerone. I would have also accepted Big Bully Busick.
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 6, 2023 9:33:01 GMT -5
I’ve been a Sox fan for 40+ years and can’t recall a player I disliked more than Verdugo. Good riddance!! They've had wife beaters, cheats, and straight up assholes. Sounds like a you problem more than a Verdugo problem Verdugo was one of the “straight up assholes”, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 6, 2023 9:34:42 GMT -5
Dude looks like Rick Cerone. There was a year in the mid 70s when it seemed like every pack of baseball cards had a Rick Cerone in it.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 6, 2023 9:41:31 GMT -5
Verdugo’s troubles have been documented as an ongoing thing, dating as far back as the end if 2022, if not prior. Nobody in the organization has said anything negative about him since the trade. Pretty sure there were “make up” concerns about Doogie when Chaim acquired him. I don’t dislike him, just disappointed in the gap between his potential and his production. But it seems like the Dump Cora faction has found an angle on this one…
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Post by joshuacoffee on Dec 6, 2023 9:48:28 GMT -5
With the balanced scheduling and all the wild cards, I'm not sure trading inside the division should be considered nearly as risky as it once was. Sure, it might feel bad. And I especially would hate to see the Yankees benefit from anything, much less benefit from a player they acquired from the Red Sox. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint, how good the Yankees are has a much, much lower affect on the Red Sox W/L record and playoff prospects than it used to.
I think every fan base tends to overvalue their players, even the players that they don't really like. If we gave up a similar prospect package for a second baseman with Verdugo's profile- about 2-3 WAR, $9-10 Mil, only one year of control, I don't know if I'd be all that excited about it. So I'll throw my lot in with those that are moderately pleased with this deal.
Also, as has been mentioned, Fitts will immediately become our first, or maybe second, ranked pitching prospect and is a close to MLB ready starter. I think people are undervaluing close to MLB ready starter with potential of mid-rotation. With the AAA crash and burn of Drohan, we don't have any of those. I know with the dumpster fire that the rotation has been lately we've grown accustom to paying $8-12 mil for #4 and #5 starters, but wouldn't it be nice to have kids with potential who are still in arbitration years filling those slots?
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badfishnbc
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Post by badfishnbc on Dec 6, 2023 10:21:31 GMT -5
Do we know why Judice was shut down after signing? Was it an injury or just an innings thing?
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