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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 15:33:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you're looking at ratings from before he jumped from A-Ball to hitting .291/.353/.440 in the majors in one year If you have any recent scouting reports showing Grissom with a 60+ hit tool, please share.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 30, 2023 15:34:39 GMT -5
IIRC Grissom is also from Aruba, which beg the question: How many languages does he speak? Ehhh, he's from Florida.
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Post by chaimtime on Dec 30, 2023 15:38:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure why you're looking at ratings from before he jumped from A-Ball to hitting .291/.353/.440 in the majors in one year If you have any recent scouting reports showing Grissom with a 60+ hit tool, please share. They likely don’t exist because he exhausted prospect eligibility already. Can you find any scouting reports saying Mookie Betts has 30+ HR power? Or how about Juan Soto being a consistent .400 OBP/.500 SLG guy? Fangraphs still has him as a future 55 hit/55 power. When players arrive ahead of schedule it tends to be because they’re outperforming the scouting reports. A guy getting a 55 hit at 21 and then hitting .291 in the big leagues straight from AA is a pretty good sign that he has a good hit tool.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 30, 2023 15:42:04 GMT -5
Arguing that a kid that made the majors at 21 years old as a bat-first player having a below-average hit tool is some insane cope to fit a narrative lol
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 30, 2023 15:45:36 GMT -5
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 15:45:41 GMT -5
If you have any recent scouting reports showing Grissom with a 60+ hit tool, please share. They likely don’t exist because he exhausted prospect eligibility already. Can you find any scouting reports saying Mookie Betts has 30+ HR power? Or how about Juan Soto being a consistent .400 OBP/.500 SLG guy? Fangraphs still has him as a future 55 hit/55 power. When players arrive ahead of schedule it tends to be because they’re outperforming the scouting reports. A guy getting a 55 hit at 21 and then hitting .291 in the big leagues straight from AA is a pretty good sign that he has a good hit tool. Thank you for confirming that there aren't any more recent scouting reports showing a 60+ Hit tool. With respect to Soto/Betts, as I've said a few times now, either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. In the instance of Soto/Betts, the scouting reports were proven to be wrong. Well see on Grissom.
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Post by stevedillard on Dec 30, 2023 15:45:57 GMT -5
IIRC Grissom is also from Aruba, which beg the question: How many languages does he speak? Ehhh, he's from Florida. So none?
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 30, 2023 15:45:59 GMT -5
Is Grissom still prospect eligible or won’t be included on Top 60? If he was on Top 60, where would he fall? Guessing 6th or 7th depending on where you have Yorke
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 30, 2023 15:47:07 GMT -5
I can maybe understand not liking this trade in an absolute vacuum, but it’s also pretty low risk and could be a very easy first step in a series of further moves.
If, for example, they sign Montgomery and bring Paxton back, then they’ve upgraded the rotation in the aggregate AND filled second baseman with a young, cost-controlled piece with some upside.
Still a few moves to go here, but the vision is obvious and Sale is just not as valuable as many here seem to think that he is. He’s a good but oft-injured pitcher that likely wasn’t moving the needle on this team’s contention in 2024. Kind of an obvious take to me.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 15:47:39 GMT -5
Arguing that a kid that made the majors at 21 years old as a bat-first player having a below-average hit tool is some insane cope to fit a narrative lol Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 30, 2023 15:49:06 GMT -5
Arguing that a kid that made the majors at 21 years old as a bat-first player having a below-average hit tool is some insane cope to fit a narrative lol Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. The Braves are broke, need a pitcher, and Grissom was blocked
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Post by asm19 on Dec 30, 2023 15:49:17 GMT -5
Did anyone else receive a wellness check from friends and family when the trade went through, or was that just me?
Thank you for 2018, Chris. I hope Kluber returned to you the 2017 Cy Young you rightly deserved.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 30, 2023 15:50:05 GMT -5
Arguing that a kid that made the majors at 21 years old as a bat-first player having a below-average hit tool is some insane cope to fit a narrative lol Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. Or maybe because they already have capable MIF options and he’s extremely blocked at his most logical position? I mean seriously, this takes two seconds of critical thought to determine that they’re trading from a position of strength to fill a weakness and get a player that fits their timeline.
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Post by buffs4444 on Dec 30, 2023 15:50:36 GMT -5
This was low-key pretty funny. The state of FL catching strays in this thread was not expected
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Post by 07redsox on Dec 30, 2023 15:50:43 GMT -5
They likely don’t exist because he exhausted prospect eligibility already. Can you find any scouting reports saying Mookie Betts has 30+ HR power? Or how about Juan Soto being a consistent .400 OBP/.500 SLG guy? Fangraphs still has him as a future 55 hit/55 power. When players arrive ahead of schedule it tends to be because they’re outperforming the scouting reports. A guy getting a 55 hit at 21 and then hitting .291 in the big leagues straight from AA is a pretty good sign that he has a good hit tool. Thank you for confirming that there aren't any more recent scouting reports showing a 60+ Hit tool. With respect to Soto/Betts, as I've said a few times now, either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. In the instance of Soto/Betts, the scouting reports were proven to be wrong. Well see on Grissom. That’s not the issue here, you just seem to not be listening to what people are saying. Scouting reports change over time. The issue is that they don’t get updated for players who jump quicker than expected. That’s exactly what happened with Grissom. He made the majors at 21 because he was so advanced with the bat. To say he is going to hit .220 because of his initial scouting report is asinine.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 30, 2023 15:51:22 GMT -5
Arguing that a kid that made the majors at 21 years old as a bat-first player having a below-average hit tool is some insane cope to fit a narrative lol Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. This isn’t even true. A 55 hit tool grade is really good. Also you’re acting as if only scouting reports from when he was prospect qualified matter. They aren’t grading him that way any more, but a more recent scouting report is going to project him closer to his ZiPS projection than your absurd .220.
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Post by majikthise on Dec 30, 2023 15:52:26 GMT -5
This trade makes ZERO sense. None. Nothing about it makes any sense. Just purposely making the team worse for no reason with the Verdugo and Sale trades. All of it would have made sense if they acquired an ace. But there aren't any of those left. Wait and see what is done to replace Sale. If it's Monty and dealing Yorke/Duran or Rafaela in a package for Luzardo or similar pitcher, I'd be happy.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 15:53:19 GMT -5
Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. Or maybe because they already have capable MIF options and he’s extremely blocked at his most logical position? I mean seriously, this takes two seconds of critical thought to determine that they’re trading from a position of strength to fill a weakness and get a player that fits their timeline. The Braves would get way more for Grissom than 1 year of a broken Chris Sale if MLB scouts thought Grissom had a legit 65+ Hit tool like his batting average suggests even if his position was blocked.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 30, 2023 15:54:11 GMT -5
If you believe in Grissom, then you're probably saying good-bye to Nick Yorke. ^ Colin Cowherd hard at work figuring out material Excuse me? They play the same position and have relatively the same skill set and are nearly the same age. It's duplication, which means one them is likely trade bait. If you believe in Grisson, it's probably Yorke. If you believe Yorke is ready to start at the MLB level then it's Grissom. ADDED: Anthopoulos on Vaughn Grissom: “it was tough - one of the harder guys to move… Can flat hit, tremendous bat to ball skills. … He’s absolutely ready be an everyday player right now.” These are almost the exact words management has used to describe Yorke. Also, Grissom's minor league stats have, on the whole, been better than Yorke: 2023 Grissom AAA 397 AB .330 AVE .419 OBP .501 SLG .920 OPS Yorke AA 443 AB .268 AVE .350 OBP .435 SLG .785 OPS
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Post by tizzle on Dec 30, 2023 15:54:34 GMT -5
Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. The Braves are broke, need a pitcher, and Grissom was blocked Also, teams with legit shots at championships trading for one year rentals has obviously a different value than other teams. Us trading for a guy with one year of control doesn't carry a lot of value, for obvious reasons. But on a team like Atlanta, which is one of the top 2 favorites for the WS next year, of course it's a completely different rationale.
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 30, 2023 16:00:38 GMT -5
Sale was at his best when he was able to spot all of his pitches. He hasn't really been able to do that in a while. This is a move that might make us worse this year, but it's fun. And fun is good.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 16:02:35 GMT -5
Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. This isn’t even true. A 55 hit tool grade is really good. Also you’re acting as if only scouting reports from when he was prospect qualified matter. They aren’t grading him that way any more, but a more recent scouting report is going to project him closer to his ZiPS projection than your absurd .220. He'll probably end up as a career .250 hitter like his scouting report suggests. His career batting average will be .250 if he has a .220 season. Also, we wouldn't be on this message board unless we cared about scouting reports for prospects.
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Dec 30, 2023 16:02:37 GMT -5
Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. The Braves are broke, need a pitcher, and Grissom was blocked Can you justify your statements that the Braves are broke? They are the only publicly traded baseball team and their public - and audited - financial statements make it clear that they are very profitable. I understand that there are uncertainties about their TV contract, but the Braves have had a very bad TV contract for years which now, ironically, means that this uncertainty is less of an issue than it might be. BP did a deep dive into their audited financial statements. A few quotes: Here is their bottom line summation: Saying the Braves are broke is buying into the idea that owners can't afford to spend money. It's one thing when teams lie without public financial statements. It's quite a bit different when those statements are out there.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Dec 30, 2023 16:02:53 GMT -5
IIRC Grissom is also from Aruba, which beg the question: How many languages does he speak? Ehhh, he's from Florida. IDRC then lol
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 30, 2023 16:05:05 GMT -5
Can’t wait to call Vaughn “Mr .220”
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