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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2024 16:18:16 GMT -5
So you would have been cool if they let a generational hitter on a team bereft of offensive talent beat them? I would have been ripshit if Trout got a go ahead hit when they could have walked him. Christ, the 2013 Cardinals lost a freaking world series because they were too stupid to walk David Ortiz. Hell, that's one of the reasons the 67 Sox won - other teams refused to intentionally walk Yaz in key spots and he kept making them pay over and over and over again. In that specific situation: - With runners on 2nd and 3rd, the Angels need a hit to tie the score or go ahead. With the bases loaded a walk ties the score. Kenley hasn't been giving up hits but he has been walking a ton of guys. - The dropoff from Trout to Ward is not that huge. Ward has a 167 wRC+, 25 points lower than Trout. By projections it's similar. But if Ward is coming up with the bases loaded he's obviously more dangerous than Trout with first base open. - SSS and it don't mean much, but Kenley has been good against Trout in the past. As have the Red Sox generally.
I am honestly having trouble here imagining the counterargument to this. It just seems so clear to me that an IBB would have been suicidal there. I don't know about what happened in the '60s with Yaz but in *this* situation, with *this* version of Kenley Jansen on the mound, it would have been insane to intentionally load the bases.
Will have to agree to disagree here. If Cora is thinking I dont trust this guys to throw enough strikes and could issue a walk with the bases loaded then he shouldn't be pitching. Period. Trout is a generational HOF caliber player who is still playing like one. Ward is a guy who is off to a hot start. I'd take my chances with Ward.
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Post by patford on Apr 14, 2024 16:21:31 GMT -5
What in the world was Verdugo doing there? That was just bad, any sort of effort there and he's safe. In the look from behind the plate it appears he has a hitch around 1/3 of the way down the line so perhaps he pulled something?
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 14, 2024 16:27:49 GMT -5
Interesting...not the first pitcher to mention this either. Fairbanks had a poor control meltdown recently and had similar complaints.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 14, 2024 16:42:07 GMT -5
I had the impression Casas was off to a slow start but I look up and he's got a wRC+ of 137.
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Apr 14, 2024 16:43:09 GMT -5
What in the world was Verdugo doing there? That was just bad, any sort of effort there and he's safe. In the look from behind the plate it appears he has a hitch around 1/3 of the way down the line so perhaps he pulled something? No, it's at that point that Verdugo actually turns completely to watch the play at the plate. In doing so he slows to almost a stop.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 14, 2024 16:47:05 GMT -5
In the look from behind the plate it appears he has a hitch around 1/3 of the way down the line so perhaps he pulled something? No, it's at that point that Verdugo actually turns completely to watch the play at the plate. In doing so he slows to almost a stop. I Zapruder'd this and I actually think what he's doing is trying to get in the way of the throw. Bad idea, as he'd have been better off running hard all the way, but I think his heart was in the right place.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 14, 2024 16:59:53 GMT -5
91 win pace. Guardians are a decent team should be an interesting series
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 14, 2024 17:30:55 GMT -5
what is the all time record for the most ABs without a hit? Maybe he is going for the record…..a…..no, but I wonder what the record is? Didn`t Luis Aparicio start 0-44 one year? Hopefully Dalbec will not get the opportunity to break that record!
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 14, 2024 18:58:37 GMT -5
What in the world was Verdugo doing there? That was just bad, any sort of effort there and he's safe. He stopped and looked over his shoulder to see if the run scored….really….watch the replay on MLB.com if you really need to see it. Lol. I will take O’Niell 100 times out of 100 over airhead Verdugo!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 14, 2024 20:11:54 GMT -5
Pleased with taking 2 - and 2 clean games. Casas pretty hot, Masa heating. Watch the pen injuries - hell, watch all injuries. Let's see what we do with Cleveland.
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Post by blizzards39 on Apr 14, 2024 20:13:58 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible
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Post by itinerantherb on Apr 14, 2024 20:20:03 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible Yeah, it's been pretty ugly at times and losing Story is a long-term problem with major ripple effects, but if you'd told me 20 days ago that with 10% of the season in the books they'd be sitting at .56 winning percentage, I'd have gladly taken it. Between the starting pitching and the glimmers of life in the line-up, there are some real reasons for non-irrational hope, which is really all I need.
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Post by patford on Apr 14, 2024 20:43:09 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible No one here (as far as I saw) expected them to compete. Overall mood was off the charts negative. Really they completely pissed away at least two games so they could easily be 11-5.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2024 21:17:43 GMT -5
Looking at "paces" this early in the season is kind of next to meaningless unless the fact that the Yankees are on a pace to win 120 actually means something- hint - it doesnt.
2 games ago they were on a pace to finish .500. Just 4 games previous it was a 114 win pace. Now it's 91.
Personally I still think they're a 70 something win team who happens to be off to a respectable 9-7 start.
If the sample size gets a lot larger and they're doing well and the mounting evidence starts pointing in a different direction, then I'll revise my opinion. Haven't really seen anything that dramatically alters my opinion of what I think they are, but like I said if I start seeing mounting evidence to the contrary then I'll revise my opinion accordingly. A 9-7 start isnt a big enough sample size of evidence to sway my original opinion of the team.
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Post by foreverred9 on Apr 14, 2024 21:27:57 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible No one here (as far as I saw) expected them to compete. Overall mood was off the charts negative. Really they completely pissed away at least two games so they could easily be 11-5. If you're going to play hypotheticals, Kenley could have lost today and we could have lost that 1-0 game in Oakland. Let's not get carried away here. 9-7 is a good spot to be at in mid-April - it's where their Pythagorean is saying they should be and I'm satisfied with that, all things considered.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 14, 2024 21:31:49 GMT -5
Looking at "paces" this early in the season is kind of next to meaningless unless the fact that the Yankees are on a pace to win 120 actually means something- hint - it doesnt. 2 games ago they were on a pace to finish .500. Just 4 games previous it was a 114 win pace. Now it's 91. Personally I still think they're a 70 something win team who happens to be off to a respectable 9-7 start. If the sample size gets a lot larger and they're doing well and the mounting evidence starts pointing in a different direction, then I'll revise my opinion. Haven't really seen anything that dramatically alters my opinion of what I think they are, but like I said if I start seeing mounting evidence to the contrary then I'll revise my opinion accordingly. A 9-7 start isnt a big enough sample size of evidence to sway my original opinion of the team. Agree with you on paces my post was in jest about how so early in the season these things sway dramatically. The same with players stats.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 14, 2024 21:33:17 GMT -5
Looking at "paces" this early in the season is kind of next to meaningless unless the fact that the Yankees are on a pace to win 120 actually means something- hint - it doesnt. 2 games ago they were on a pace to finish .500. Just 4 games previous it was a 114 win pace. Now it's 91. Personally I still think they're a 70 something win team who happens to be off to a respectable 9-7 start. If the sample size gets a lot larger and they're doing well and the mounting evidence starts pointing in a different direction, then I'll revise my opinion. Haven't really seen anything that dramatically alters my opinion of what I think they are, but like I said if I start seeing mounting evidence to the contrary then I'll revise my opinion accordingly. A 9-7 start isnt a big enough sample size of evidence to sway my original opinion of the team. You were always expecting the exceptional starting pitching, I take it?
Agreed that it's very early, though.
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Post by asm18 on Apr 14, 2024 21:37:19 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible Yeah, it's been pretty ugly at times and losing Story is a long-term problem with major ripple effects, but if you'd told me 20 days ago that with 10% of the season in the books they'd be sitting at .56 winning percentage, I'd have gladly taken it. Between the starting pitching and the glimmers of life in the line-up, there are some real reasons for non-irrational hope, which is really all I need. I think with a team whose ceiling doesn’t seem to be ridiculously high (unless they really DO have the best starter ERA for the rest of the year), there is something to be said for not falling off the train tracks. They’ve had some bad stretches the last two years that necessitated incredibly good months (June 2022, July 2023) just to get back above water, which is is hard to do consistently. Something as seemingly humble as 15-12 each month gets you to 90 wins.
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ericmvan
Veteran
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 14, 2024 22:30:17 GMT -5
9-7. Oppositiion is .500. West coast trip outa way. Other than the Devistating news of Story nit terrible No one here (as far as I saw) expected them to compete. Overall mood was off the charts negative. Really they completely pissed away at least two games so they could easily be 11-5. I had their best case as WS champs and their worst (excluding excess injury scenarios) as good enough to make the playoffs in multiple other divisions, but not outs. My rationale was that the starting pitching would be excellent.
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Jansen's expected slash line coming into this game was .117 / .411 /.161. That has started to normalize, as he had just a .225 xBA and .371 xOBA in this outing.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Apr 14, 2024 22:52:30 GMT -5
I know it's only 1/10th of a year, but since I have been critical of the front office for a lot of things I have to say it looks like they got the O'Neill signing right. Where would this team be without him? Even if he cools off, you have to think he will end up giving the team at least as much as Duvall (who as I recall also started out hot) did last year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2024 22:56:17 GMT -5
Looking at "paces" this early in the season is kind of next to meaningless unless the fact that the Yankees are on a pace to win 120 actually means something- hint - it doesnt. 2 games ago they were on a pace to finish .500. Just 4 games previous it was a 114 win pace. Now it's 91. Personally I still think they're a 70 something win team who happens to be off to a respectable 9-7 start. If the sample size gets a lot larger and they're doing well and the mounting evidence starts pointing in a different direction, then I'll revise my opinion. Haven't really seen anything that dramatically alters my opinion of what I think they are, but like I said if I start seeing mounting evidence to the contrary then I'll revise my opinion accordingly. A 9-7 start isnt a big enough sample size of evidence to sway my original opinion of the team. You were always expecting the exceptional starting pitching, I take it? Agreed that it's very early, though.
Most teams have strong stretches of starting pitching for about a month. They also have month long struggles too. I'm not convinced it will hold up especially as some of these guys pass 120 innings. To be honest most of these starts are five and dive which still overworks the pen. It doesnt overly impress me, but I know that's more a statement of the modern game than the individual Red Sox staff, as all staffs do five and dive these days.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2024 23:00:36 GMT -5
I know it's only 1/10th of a year, but since I have been critical of the front office for a lot of things I have to say it looks like they got the O'Neill signing right. Where would this team be without him? Even if he cools off, you have to think he will end up giving the team at least as much as Duvall (who as I recall also started out hot) did last year. I liked the O'Neill trade from the start. It's really early. Let's just say he's done nothing to alter my opinion that if he stays healthy he's going to have a damn good year, 30 plus homers. Hard to imagine the Cardinals didnt want to keep him around. Jordan Walker in RF, sure. But for LF and DH, they had clearly better options?
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Post by vokuhila on Apr 15, 2024 2:33:00 GMT -5
Epitome of addition by subtraction. Duggie is completely oblivious to what's going on. He is surprised to see the 1B throw to ball home, ducks out of the way (or stumbles over the bat?), then turns around to see where the ball is going instead of hustling to first. That's hard to look at
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Post by geostorm on Apr 15, 2024 5:02:02 GMT -5
Interesting...not the first pitcher to mention this either. Fairbanks had a poor control meltdown recently and had similar complaints.
Jansen said bullpen balls were better rubbed than game balls.
"It's embarrassing. It's been a while I've been playing in this league and, from the beginning of my career until now, it's getting worse," he said.
"It's been an issue the whole year," he said. "I've been talking to a lot of my teammates, and they feel the same way. First pitch, get out of my hand, I don't know where it's going. Second pitch, the same thing. Then, I tried to throw a ball down the middle, just keep going down. It's tough trying to make an adjustment and also you have the clock ticking."
Jansen said he got lucky when he faced Trout, that he threw a few balls out "and got some that are rubbed-up balls."
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Post by incandenza on Apr 15, 2024 5:44:05 GMT -5
It's curious that these inferior balls are causing Jansen to issue more walks but not anyone else on the team or around the league.
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