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4/15-4/18 Red Sox vs. Guardians Series Thread
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Post by congusgambler33 on Apr 18, 2024 15:40:31 GMT -5
Well..The Red sox beat themselves in 2 of the games they lost. todays game and Casas bonehead trying to steal 3rd which made Jansen's run meaningless with a 7-6 win. Cora's prediction of playing better defense was spitting into the wind.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 18, 2024 15:40:40 GMT -5
SoxProspects has him as a "potential plus defender at short". MLB Pipeline has him as a 55, Fangraphs has him as a 50. Sounds like he'll be solid or better there. Casas graded out well for his defense in the minors, so I wouldn't be surprised if he improves; his mistakes have seemed to be more mental to me so far, like going for a ball the second baseman had covered and leaving 1B uncovered, and that should improve with experience. Everything I've read about Grissom says he is a good bet to be an average 2B too. And, of course, Story isn't dead; he's on the team for at least one more year, and likely three more, and he should be a plus SS or 2B for most of that time. A Mayer/Story combo up the middle should actually be quite good. I share your concerns in the short term, though. I find myself just dreaming on a healthy Adalberto Mondesi signing and being a plus SS with like a 75 wRC+...
A healthy Adalberto Mondesi is like asking for a pet unicorn Ooh do you think I can have a pet unicorn too?
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
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Post by nomar on Apr 18, 2024 15:43:01 GMT -5
A healthy Adalberto Mondesi is like asking for a pet unicorn Ooh do you think I can have a pet unicorn too? Yes you can have both. You’ve earned them
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 18, 2024 15:43:22 GMT -5
Stupid thought, but would trading for Kiké be the worst thing in the world? Put him at 2B until Grissom is ready and then move Kiké to CF all the while having Rafaela at SS for the season? Kiké seems to be having a rough start to the season and not sure how needed he is on the Dodgers, especially with his negative WAR.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 18, 2024 15:44:38 GMT -5
SoxProspects has him as a "potential plus defender at short". MLB Pipeline has him as a 55, Fangraphs has him as a 50. Sounds like he'll be solid or better there. Casas graded out well for his defense in the minors, so I wouldn't be surprised if he improves; his mistakes have seemed to be more mental to me so far, like going for a ball the second baseman had covered and leaving 1B uncovered, and that should improve with experience. Everything I've read about Grissom says he is a good bet to be an average 2B too. And, of course, Story isn't dead; he's on the team for at least one more year, and likely three more, and he should be a plus SS or 2B for most of that time. A Mayer/Story combo up the middle should actually be quite good.
I share your concerns in the short term, though. I find myself just dreaming on a healthy Adalberto Mondesi signing and being a plus SS with like a 75 wRC+...
True I suppose it depends on where you read and who you believe/trust with their evaluations, I've seen Mayer anywhere from oh yea he's going to have to move off SS to he will be above average so let's hope the folks more bullish on his defense are the right ones. Probably not the right thread to bring up the can of worms in terms of Mayer and the future defense of the team so my apologies on that to everyone. In the short term though I don't know how long they can honestly keep running out Hamilton, I don't know who in the org would be a better bet feels like there has to be someone if somehow not it's to the point just pick some random DFA MI off the scrap heap who can at least field or throw some lotto tickets at ChiSox for DeJong. Livan Soto was DFA'd by the Orioles on Tuesday, throw a claim in on him, FG gives him a 50 fielding, that has to be better than Hamilton. He's also just 23 and has two options remaining, grab him and if they get a better option down the road send him to the minors. Move Story to the 60 day IL to pick him up. Feels like it has to be a better option, maybe they catch some lightning in a bottle. Since Ref is now back, my hope is that once O'Neill is back too they shift Rafaela to SS. Either that or find a waiver wire guy with a glove, as you say. I don't mind a few more games of Hamilton but with six healthy OFs at that point the roster pressure will just be too much to do anything else.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Apr 18, 2024 15:51:34 GMT -5
Last thought for the day - we are 3-7 at home.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 18, 2024 15:55:01 GMT -5
Throwing velocity should drop when you shift from 2B to SS, and he was at least an average SS in 2021 despite the injured elbow. DRS (+9) and OAA (-7) disagree on how well he made out, but at the very least we can say that he could handle SS that season.
The article is pure speculation... "Perhaps the offseason will allow Story to rest his weary elbow, yet some teams may already view him as a second baseman." This says nothing about his ability to handle SS. Their thesis is basically "His elbow injury made him worse at SS", which is obvious; the relevant bit is whether it made him enough worse to not be able to handle the position, and the answer to that is pretty clearly no. One might argue that 2B would be a smarter decision for injury risk reasons, or because a diminished arm might make him a better fit there, but that isn't the argument at hand.
Just about every article on his 76.1 MPH velocity raised questions about his ability to play SS. www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/12/red-sox-considering-trevor-story-at-shortstop-despite-arm-concerns-could-still-make-move.htmlbloggingtheredsox.com/2023/01/10/red-sox-cant-bank-on-trevor-story-playing-in-2023-after-infielder-undergoes-elbow-surgery-chaim-bloom-says/Even for a 2B his arm strength was awful. I don't know if SS to 2B directly correlates to a dip, but even if it does he was one of the weakest arms in the league and since surgery his velocity has gone back up. I can't find the article where Bloom stated the range he provides makes up for the lack in arm strength.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 18, 2024 15:55:17 GMT -5
Stupid thought, but would trading for Kiké be the worst thing in the world? Put him at 2B until Grissom is ready and then move Kiké to CF all the while having Rafaela at SS for the season? Kiké seems to be having a rough start to the season and not sure how needed he is on the Dodgers, especially with his negative WAR. You want people to get an aneurysm? Did you memory hole the last time Kiké was here?
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Apr 18, 2024 15:58:16 GMT -5
It's not just the 20 errors, it's also how devastating they've been. I wonder what the teams URA (UNearned Run Average) is. gotta be the worst by far.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 18, 2024 15:58:29 GMT -5
Stupid thought, but would trading for Kiké be the worst thing in the world? Put him at 2B until Grissom is ready and then move Kiké to CF all the while having Rafaela at SS for the season? Kiké seems to be having a rough start to the season and not sure how needed he is on the Dodgers, especially with his negative WAR. You want people to get an aneurysm? Did you memory hole the last time Kiké was here? I remember the disaster of him at SS. I can't remember what he looked like back to his more natural positions of 2B and CF (though to him SS is what he wanted to play). I'm not expecting anything with the bat, just someone who can be competent with the glove.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Apr 18, 2024 15:59:18 GMT -5
This team really needs a lot of help. The good news is Pivetta will be back soon and as long as he pitches well, they should be able to get a really good prospect for him at the deadline.
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Post by brendan98 on Apr 18, 2024 16:03:35 GMT -5
Last thought for the day - we are 3-7 at home. Or, we are 4-8 since Story went down and our defense went to shit.
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Post by wildsox on Apr 18, 2024 16:04:15 GMT -5
Stupid thought, but would trading for Kiké be the worst thing in the world? Put him at 2B until Grissom is ready and then move Kiké to CF all the while having Rafaela at SS for the season? Kiké seems to be having a rough start to the season and not sure how needed he is on the Dodgers, especially with his negative WAR. You want people to get an aneurysm? Did you memory hole the last time Kiké was here? This exactly! There has to be more options than this.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 18, 2024 16:05:38 GMT -5
You want people to get an aneurysm? Did you memory hole the last time Kiké was here? I remember the disaster of him at SS. I can't remember what he looked like back to his more natural positions of 2B and CF (though to him SS is what he wanted to play). I'm not expecting anything with the bat, just someone who can be competent with the glove. He was better @ 2B & CF, but there’s zero chance the Dodgers trade him as they’re having their own infield issues outside of SS & 1B.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 18, 2024 16:06:07 GMT -5
You want people to get an aneurysm? Did you memory hole the last time Kiké was here? I remember the disaster of him at SS. I can't remember what he looked like back to his more natural positions of 2B and CF (though to him SS is what he wanted to play). I'm not expecting anything with the bat, just someone who can be competent with the glove. His glove was made of Swiss cheese here. So. Uh. No.
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Post by brendan98 on Apr 18, 2024 16:24:31 GMT -5
This team really needs a lot of help. The good news is Pivetta will be back soon and as long as he pitches well, they should be able to get a really good prospect for him at the deadline. I would really love to see what this team can do if healthy, obviously Giolito and Story aren't coming back, but get O'Neill and Devers back healthy (and with Devers if you have to give him a week off, do it), Pivetta (hopefully in the next couple of weeks), Whitlock (hopefully soon after that), Refsnyder is back, hopefully Grissom follows in a week or two. If Kenley could use a DL stint do that too (I'd rather be without him for 10 days than have him pitch through back issues). Commit to the best defense you can, if that means Refsnyder in LF vs RHP, and Abreu in RF against LHP until O'Neill comes back, so Rafaela can play SS, than so be it. Prior to Story getting hurt, nobody was hitting other than O'Neill but we were winning games with pitching and defense, and I think we can play .500 ball with the same formula until we are healthy. Get to May 1 with a .500 record, get everyone back and healthy (fingers crossed), and then find out what kind of team this is.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 18, 2024 16:26:58 GMT -5
Throwing velocity should drop when you shift from 2B to SS, and he was at least an average SS in 2021 despite the injured elbow. DRS (+9) and OAA (-7) disagree on how well he made out, but at the very least we can say that he could handle SS that season.
The article is pure speculation... "Perhaps the offseason will allow Story to rest his weary elbow, yet some teams may already view him as a second baseman." This says nothing about his ability to handle SS. Their thesis is basically "His elbow injury made him worse at SS", which is obvious; the relevant bit is whether it made him enough worse to not be able to handle the position, and the answer to that is pretty clearly no. One might argue that 2B would be a smarter decision for injury risk reasons, or because a diminished arm might make him a better fit there, but that isn't the argument at hand.
Just about every article on his 76.1 MPH velocity raised questions about his ability to play SS. www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/12/red-sox-considering-trevor-story-at-shortstop-despite-arm-concerns-could-still-make-move.htmlbloggingtheredsox.com/2023/01/10/red-sox-cant-bank-on-trevor-story-playing-in-2023-after-infielder-undergoes-elbow-surgery-chaim-bloom-says/Even for a 2B his arm strength was awful. I don't know if SS to 2B directly correlates to a dip, but even if it does he was one of the weakest arms in the league and since surgery his velocity has gone back up. I can't find the article where Bloom stated the range he provides makes up for the lack in arm strength. Defensive value is a combination of multiple factors. Of those, range is the most important, and Story has it in spades. He had a below average arm even when he was healthy back in Colorado and it did not stop him from being an elite defender.
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Post by halkirkbillie on Apr 18, 2024 16:28:19 GMT -5
True I suppose it depends on where you read and who you believe/trust with their evaluations, I've seen Mayer anywhere from oh yea he's going to have to move off SS to he will be above average so let's hope the folks more bullish on his defense are the right ones. Probably not the right thread to bring up the can of worms in terms of Mayer and the future defense of the team so my apologies on that to everyone. In the short term though I don't know how long they can honestly keep running out Hamilton, I don't know who in the org would be a better bet feels like there has to be someone if somehow not it's to the point just pick some random DFA MI off the scrap heap who can at least field or throw some lotto tickets at ChiSox for DeJong. Livan Soto was DFA'd by the Orioles on Tuesday, throw a claim in on him, FG gives him a 50 fielding, that has to be better than Hamilton. He's also just 23 and has two options remaining, grab him and if they get a better option down the road send him to the minors. Move Story to the 60 day IL to pick him up. Feels like it has to be a better option, maybe they catch some lightning in a bottle. Since Ref is now back, my hope is that once O'Neill is back too they shift Rafaela to SS. Either that or find a waiver wire guy with a glove, as you say. I don't mind a few more games of Hamilton but with six healthy OFs at that point the roster pressure will just be too much to do anything else. Scouting Grades Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 40 | Field: 60 | Arm: 60 That's BA grade on Mayer. I have not seen one site saying he needs to move off of SS. What site site says Mayer will have to move off SS??
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 18, 2024 16:33:34 GMT -5
Booser getting called up
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 18, 2024 16:33:51 GMT -5
Since Ref is now back, my hope is that once O'Neill is back too they shift Rafaela to SS. Either that or find a waiver wire guy with a glove, as you say. I don't mind a few more games of Hamilton but with six healthy OFs at that point the roster pressure will just be too much to do anything else. Scouting Grades Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 40 | Field: 60 | Arm: 60 That's BA grade on Mayer. I have not seen one site saying he needs to move off of SS. What site site says Mayer will have to move off SS?? The MLB Pipeline writeup says that some scouts think he'll need to move to 2B or 3B. That doesn't seem to be the majority opinion anywhere from what I can tell though.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 18, 2024 16:34:06 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 18, 2024 16:41:17 GMT -5
Scouting Grades Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 40 | Field: 60 | Arm: 60 That's BA grade on Mayer. I have not seen one site saying he needs to move off of SS. What site site says Mayer will have to move off SS?? The MLB Pipeline writeup says that some scouts think he'll need to move to 2B or 3B. That doesn't seem to be the majority opinion anywhere from what I can tell though. Yes I wasn't saying it was anywhere near the consensus but there are some.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 18, 2024 17:26:22 GMT -5
Thank God. After Bernardino, this was the 2nd most logical move to make on the pitching staff.
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Post by manfred on Apr 18, 2024 17:33:35 GMT -5
Thank God. After Bernardino, this was the 2nd most logical move to make on the pitching staff. Wait… I don’t follow this that closely… why are we thanking god for a 31-year old who was in the Indy league 2 years ago and had almost a 5 ERA last year? Not being snarky… I see he throws hard. Is something different?
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 18, 2024 17:36:14 GMT -5
Well, he's struck out 15 out of 25 batters he's faced this year. That's a pretty good resume by itself. He changed his arsenal, he's no longer bothering with his 98 mph heater too much. He's also stopped walking people, for how long we will see.
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